FH Forward (Chinese) Loop

FireHorse wrote: Where does the racket contact the ball?  I think it will be different contact point with topspin ball and underspin ball?  FireHorse

the important thing is where the stroke begins, under the table.  go upward then forward driving through the ball while snapping your wrist upward at contact.  now watch you opponents jaw drop

ohhgourami wrote: FireHorse wrote: Where does the racket contact the ball?  I think it will be different contact point with topspin ball and underspin ball?  FireHorse the important thing is where the stroke begins, under the table.  go upward then forward driving through the ball while snapping your wrist upward at contact.  now watch you opponents jaw drop

So, the contact is the same with both topspin and underspin ball?  And where the contact should be?  To me, the point of contact against the topspin ball is at about 1 or 2'oclock (meaning on top of the ball) and the point of contact against underspin ball is about 3'oclock (on the back of the ball). 

Or with underspin, you start low and with topspin, you start higher?

FireHorse

tpgh2k wrote: you do know that hitting with an open face blade is only used against underspin right? you're basically hitting through the spin preventing it from diving into the net....there's a huge difference in swing between safe loops against underspin and loop drives against underspin....

I do know that hitting with an open face blade works against underspin, but as the guide posted, it's an open face against topspin as well.  I wonder with an open face against topspin, you will need to somehow close it earlier than against the underspin and use a forward motion more while against underspin, it's more upward motion.

FireHorse

It works against topspin too but you need to cover faster.  However, against more heavy topspin, thats the point where you need to switch to the counterloop stroke, driving forward with around 60 degrees using about 40% power and big arm only.  You borrow all your opponents power when its heavier topspin.  So basically you need to identify which balls you should go open face/cover on (attacking with your own power) vs counterloop stroke (borrowing power). 

Rack wrote: keven702 wrote: I think you might be right about attacking close range with a open bat for a ball with no spin or under spin   Yeah Kevin thats step one, after try hitting into it at 80-90 then wrap around the ball with your wrist giving it a lil extra omph forward.  You'll like the results .  Remember to always followthrough forward... and not upwards.

Totally agree with keven and rack on this. Both the "attacking close range with a open bat for a ball with no spin or under spin" and "try hitting into it at 80-90 then wrap around the ball with your wrist giving it a lil extra omph forward. " is correct.

There is a female jpen player in our club that hits exactly like that. Her attack is fast, especially those under spin (light under spin) balls, it comes back even faster because the under spin gets converted into top spin. Those under spin balls are not those easy ones where you know you can fast attack it, those are balls that are slightly below the net level where you think the only way she can attack it is to loop it back. She can still fast attack those w/ the technqiues mentioned above. (those who knows me can stop by our club and you'll see what I'm talking about when you play with her)

In order to do that, you'll have to be able to hit it right off the bounce or near the top of the bounce and not later. Also, this will require lots of practice so that you can naturally hit it without having to think.

If you're still in the stage where you have to think "ok, remember to contact the ball at an open racket.." then it's too late.

The concept seems easy but I personally think this is hard to learn if you already have a fixed fh style. those chinese players learned it when they we're young so it was easy for them.

So cousinkenni and I have been discussing the same issue over PM and he told me to look at ITTV at the ITTF site at the Kuwait Open 2010 to try to find him an example.  Look at the Ma Long vs Xu Xin match.  Now normally in the view you get facing the player, the perspective and the speed which they wrap the ball is usually too fast to see as it just looks like a normal stroke.  However an excellent example is around 17 seconds into the video when they are warming up.  Now this is a top view of Xu Xin.  Watch at 17 seconds how after he contacts the ball, his blade wraps the ball inwards with his wrist.  This is a pretty decent view of the motion and the concept against no spin to light topspin (blocks coming from Ma Long).  Really only possible with this top view so you see the actual wrist movement and angle change.  Note that he's also the one putting out the actual power since its just blocks coming back from Ma Long.

Yeah you basically have to "unlearn what you have learned" and relearn everything if you want to switch.  It's a pain in the ass and takes a long time to reprogram your muscle memory.

In most cases, I find my OCD to be... "uncomfortable". Fortunately, it serves me in one area. I should have this "straight-arm" loop thing down by the end of the week. (Kidding.)

heh, the reason why it's confusing is b/c people forget the part about body rotation and smooth follow through. it's not an open faced hit then you close your wrist. if you go by the kuwait video of ma long vs xu xin, you'll see how low xu xin sets up and winds into the ball. what you think is an open faced hit is just a common loop drive.

just need to follow through forward for speed and get on top of the ball in order to get the spin and the dip onto the table =)

Yeah you only contact the ball at 80-90 but since you wrap it with your wrist, the angle closes enough to launch the ball like a loop.  However while it "sticks to the tack" as you're wrapping, you get tons of control and can decide alot of things to do with the shot.  After you launch the ball out you must follow through forward with body rotation as TPGH says.  It's basically the Chinese stroke for a loop drive.  You can do it without wrapping the ball too if your feel is high enough.

chu_bun wrote: Second, if you have to wrap your wrist to close the angle, why not swing with a close angle from the beginning to simplify your stroke?  I don't think the ball "cares" what you do before or after you hit it.

because you dont get the same amount of power.  in order to take full advantage of the rubbers power requires you to penetrate the sponge and a closed angle doesnt let you do that.  not to mention, the ball slips a lot if its too closed.

Haha looks like Baal figured it out.  

No the ball slips on harder sponges because people don't hit hard enough to penetrate into the sponge.  Thats why harder sponges take a much more solid stroke mechanic to generate power.  If you can't generate your power, the ball slips off the topsheet without getting to the sponge.  This is why alot of people who use H3 without this stroke feel its slow.  Also, it's why weak no spin balls are the Chinese rubber's weakness.  Unless you get how to wrap the ball and generate your own power/spin, the ball will keep slipping off and net or go long.

heh now you all know how i feel when i loop =)

Baal wrote: This works!!!  For sure with T05, now I wonder if it might work even better with T25.  Anyway, the grip of Tenergy is enough to make absolutely overwhelming spin and power with the 80 degree racket angle.  The trick for me, and I am hoping this may not take that long, is to BELIEVE IT!  By which I mean, to go for it every time it is there, stop feeling like I ever need to lift the ball.  It is mind blowing how much spin you get when you DON'T  lift it, let the rubber to it's work.  I ripped some returns of serve this way over the table that I couldn't believe myself.  The other positive thing about it is knowing that you need to put some waist and leg into it, it just makes the footwork better too. Another trick, take the ball about 10 cm farther away from your body than you would with a more old-fashioned stroke.

welcome to a whole new level