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Playing a chopper |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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I figured something out after watching some women's matches against choppers.
Instead of going for an all out loop attack, trying to loop their shorter chops, which I find personally I can miss the ball fairly often if it's one of those that hits the table and then kinda dies in midair and stops moving forward, is to angle the racket way back like going for a push, but put a forehand type swing on it, leaving the racket wide open to get a consistent, controllable faster return between a loop and a push for added variety. Worked well against long pips and inverted chops and pushes on forehand and backhand for me. Someone probably said this somewhere in the 150+ posts, but yeah, that's my new nugget of playing wisdom. |
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longreachlooper
Member Joined: 03/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Of course it isn't "easy" to play a chopper!
I would serve with about 75% spin as usual, because if they're good, they will return most all your high spin serves anyway, as you know. So, get your serve in, then after they (chopper) get into their groove, they will prob push it back. Start looping away, or kill it if it's high enough. Loop wide to the backhand, then when-if they return it, with chop, drop shot it to the opposite side as wide as possible. You know the scenario. next time.....
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-Blade
-Spinny verywell controlled stuff forehand -long pips or inverted or med. pips on backhand |
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dyt70
Member Joined: 07/10/2006 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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thanks you sunny for innfo
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pingpangfan
Member Joined: 01/02/2008 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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to play against a chopper, first you must be able to have stable loop attack.
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I love Pingpong
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Iskallt
Member Joined: 10/30/2009 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Okay, but what if he pushes his return out low and fast in your forehand, so you're forced to loop a slow topspin? The only thing I can add on this discussion since almost everything has been said, is that you should let him move in depth. Sometimes don't attack yourself full power/topspin, just do a nice, slow loop or another hit so the ball goes short and the speed changes. Choppers have huge problems with working in depth (aka back and forth at the table) and rhythm changes. |
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danova
Member Joined: 11/21/2009 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Try looping into the middle of the table, this way he can not get an
angle on his return, choppers are always weakest when it comes into
their body.
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longreachlooper
Member Joined: 03/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Absolutely true.
If you have the control and the touch and experience to keep pressing to the middle of the chopper, or any player in fact, is verygood. |
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-Blade
-Spinny verywell controlled stuff forehand -long pips or inverted or med. pips on backhand |
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stevetaylor6969
Member Joined: 11/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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its hard work playing these guys, some struggle with the slower higher loop
with very heavy topspin |
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Tabletennisgod
Member Joined: 04/13/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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There are actually several types of choppers believe it or not. In asia, you generally see choppers who are defensive in the backhand but can counter strongly when the opprotunity presents itself. This is because most of them start out as attackers early on, develop a good forehand, and then switch to being a chopper. Then, there's the completely defensive chopper that plays the orthodox chopping style. Strategy varies with both types. Against the totally defensive choppers, I like to take my time against them, knowing that they won't counter attack and if they do, it will be weak. I'm not afraid to loop it high, slow, and spinny to their backhand as that move makes the choppers very uncomfortable. Against the attacking choppers though, it is a lot harder in my opinion, since there is always the constant threat of a counter attack. If you watch Joo se Hyuk play, when the ball is rather high, he will make a strong counter attack.
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so easy evena noob can do it
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Omega740
Beginner Joined: 12/08/2009 Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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It can be pretty rough against a good chopper. Particularly if you don't play them to often. HERE is a pretty good example.
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TT YouTube Chan Chinese Penhold FH/BH
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longreachlooper
Member Joined: 03/23/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Table Tennis Tactics Cheat Sheet
By PongWorld.com Tactics Against All Opponents Versus all styles of opponents: 1) Vary spin and strokes and 2) place ball outside power zones Edited by longreachlooper - 10/23/2010 at 10:30am |
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-Blade
-Spinny verywell controlled stuff forehand -long pips or inverted or med. pips on backhand |
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agustin280fer
Member Joined: 01/21/2009 Location: Uruguay Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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tip for playing against choppers. top spin once and chop once, so the chopper will have to move forward all the time and he will get tired.
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Visit my blog to earn money online by clicking ads! (Free TT Stuff)
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a23096713
Super Member Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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I don't always recommend the strategy of loop once and push once strategy. Technically might work well with very defensive chopper, but offensive chopper love to run forward to do power loop when they see the push coming. It actually more powerful as they uses the distant to accelerate more power forward. Especially once the chopper knows that you gonna be pushing most of the shot. They simply won't move back right away, and they WILL start attacking. A better strategy is adding pushs within loops to cause surprises. That is actually what you need to win against a chopper.
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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Nori
Silver Member Joined: 09/12/2010 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 844 |
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Move the chopper around, add side-spin to your top-spin loops.
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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The chopper has to be very good to chop balls and always keep them low. I like to hit some higher or short balls quickly off the bounce. It changes the rhythm and I can hit the ball flatter and at wider angles so the horizontal speed is higher and the ball bounce height lower resulting in a ball that is harder to get to. |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I've consistently lost to one player with a penhold grip who can push with sidespin, underspin, and a combination of both all day long, always moving the ball and keeping every shot low and short. Looping is out of the question because his shots will bounce twice before they are even near the edge of the table. He is in no hurry to be aggressive and doesn't use his push to set up his own loops, but basically waits for me to lose my patience or my concentration and lose the point.
Pushing exchanges with this guy is mentally draining. Most of the time, I end up hitting the ball into the net as a result of his backspin, despite having my blade completely opened. I'm not kidding, 180 degrees, facing straight up, and still I dump it into the net. There are some nice marks on the table from my blade because that's just how low I have to position the blade to get under his shots. I don't have the FH or BH flicks/flips in my arsenal yet. Are they my only answers against this guy? It seems my opponent's style is very effective, so why don't most pros play this way, but opt for the looping attacking style instead? Why is it that even pro choppers don't play this way---keeping their shots low and short? How would a pro handle this guy's game, using flicks or drop shots? For the sake of discussion, let's assume that the pro does not immediately put this guy on the defensive with the serve or return. Thanks. |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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Push fast and deep? Most player's struggle to return such a push as short as you describe. As for the pro's, I'm sure they would play this short game with him untill he made one that was slightly to high and then they would open up against that one.
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The holy grail
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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About a year ago I ran into this style for the first time. Short pips with thin sponge player, about US1700 or so. It was the first time I've ever played anyone who could return anything my low-intermediate level could dish out in a safe manner. I tried mixing underspin amounts, placement, but he simply could out-push me without giving me any options to open up the point. It was the most humbling loss of that tournament, I have never felt so "powerless" to dictate control of a point. The only upside was that he beat the eventual tourney winner, a high 1900's mid distance topspinner. In that match however, he was forced to use offense and mixed the low safe pushes with classic CPEN fast attack/smashes. |
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TBS9x
Gold Member Joined: 10/24/2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 1143 |
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Just last saturday in the final of a competition I lost to a chopper, it was an old man but he is still quite agile and used to play in Swedish Elite's League at his youth so his experience is way more than mine. He chops mainly backhand, he chops more with smooth side actually, sometimes switches and does not attack at all, only push and chop. Therefore though I'm also a chopper I have to play the attacking role and did all my best, mixing slow loops with fast one, push short, deep anything but the only thing that I seemed to forgot is to attack to his elbow. Remember that guys! It's always easier to chop back on the side but chopping from the middle is a different story and if you could force choppers to move out of there comfort zone, you might as well as launch an all out offensive attack to both wings rapidly and if you are patient enough and have good spin reading skills then winning is only a matter of time. I did not succeed because I lacked a bit patient, he was twiddling and it was my 7th match of the day so I ran flat out of gas :D
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Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
Stiga Boost TC Tibhar Grass Dtecs 1.6mm Video: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-p2VHaiDk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bHoFRj_oU -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnqlW |
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friendship
Super Member Joined: 09/03/2010 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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well, I am no chopper, but when facing two-winged looper who likes to play from the mid-distance and is better attacker than me, this is effective tactics by which you can win match. just keeping the ball short, low, and at the center of the table, with pushes and chops. it gives you great position to be first to attack. as I play most of the game close to the table, this is my teritory, even if chopping isn't. how to play against it? hard against me no such problem because I am not skilled enough, but against skilled guy...
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Humbling, boy, you got that right. I thought I was more advanced than this guy because I can chop, loop, and drive, but he can only push. The problem is he has mastered the push. Perhaps he possesses a full arsenal as well, but he certainly didn't have to use his other weapons to defeat me. In a way, I think it's common to associate the away-from-the-table driving and looping style to advanced level play, because that's how the pros play. *Scoff* "Pusher, I play like the pros, so I'm better than you. Ha!" I couldn't have been more wrong. From experience, however, I now feel that it's much easier to play someone who plays the long game and the short game is much more difficult to deal with or master. |
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a23096713
Super Member Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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For those who got problem with low pushes. I just wondering, have you guys force to flip everything over? usually when the situation is like that, there are no solution or immediate respond. I tend to start to do risky shots that is not what I am confidently at.
However, despite the fact that might lost some points because of the risks. Once you get some shots in, the opponent will have greater mental stress. I use that technique on varies players and it tend to give myself some time to rethink strategies. For example, I am a chopper. A very defensive one that I must admit. Some of the player started to serve long and fast no-spin/top spin down the line. He got away with 2 points. After I finished my serve, I control loop the very first serve and he counter block it down the line. I tried to loop in his second serve away again, I missed second time. I was down by 4 points. However, he started to serve short and carefully afterward, which it was easier for me to counter/chop and attack. I manage to catch up the missing 4 points and win the game. Sometimes giving your opponent mental pressure is actually a really good way to stop your opponent's flow of the game. It works quite well in big tournaments where mental stress is higher. That is why if you started to force flip some shots around, I really do believe you would have higher chance to get it back. Of course players can't get flip skill all the sudden, being a sitting duck is not much of an option. |
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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friendship
Super Member Joined: 09/03/2010 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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just few comments. I suppose you have a fairly low throw rubber. I remember this problem with some good choppers with extreme spin when I was using lower throw rubber, it needed to be completely open to be able to return the ball, and in some cases it wasn't enough. with higher throw rubber it is much easier to return. but also, it is easier to push against such chop (over the table) then to re-chop, because push will catch less of incoming spin, so ball returns higher
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Thanks for pointing that out, buddy. I had just read another thread about the throw characteristic of paddles and thought it was interesting, but had not make the connection between it and how it affected my play until I read your reply.
Assuming I read the other thread correctly, the blade itself has relatively little influence, if any at all, on throw; it's the rubber and the sponge that determine the amount of throw?
I think I want to maximize the throw of my paddle then, because it's more intuitive for me to compensate for the extra arc in the trajectory of my shots by closing the blade than to compensate for incoming backspin by opening up the blade. That way I won't have any more trouble with those low pushes with a lot of backspin, right?
Now, do more tacky rubbers contribute to more throw, because they grip and pull on the ball more? What about sponge thickness and firmness? Thicker, softer sponge = more throw?
Thanks.
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friendship
Super Member Joined: 09/03/2010 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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yes. blade is of minor meaning regarding throw in comparison to rubber, although I have discovered that when youz deal with lower throw rubbers throw angle of blade has some meaning, since higher throw blades somehow mix better with lower throw rubbers, at least for my taste
with higher throw rubbers I can tell that how they behave against backspin balls it is huge difference (this is part where even higher throw rubber perform quite differently one to each other). low throw rubbers tend to give low arc direct ball over the net, while higher throw rubbers lift them with ease. with higher throw rubber the issue is to direct chops and pushes the right way so you dont pop them up, but you will never have an issue of lifting the backspin ball over the net, since this is no longer problem. but of course you need different (more closed) angle of paddle when chopping or pushing, which demands some training session to get used to
what is also easier to me with higher throw rubber is to play against lower flat (no spin) balls. simple direct hit often leads to hitting the net, while higher throw rubber works for you in a way that it lifts the ball with producing some arc just as needed. there is also the downside of higher throw rubbers: on higher balls execution attacks directness of lower throw rubbers is quality missing to higher throw ones, and you need to be more precise to avoid hitting too long
but all in all I personally prefer higher throw rubbers, as easier to loop against backspin and lifting the ball, and just as you said, to me personally it is easier to close the blade a little more than to compensate for incoming spin
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friendship
Super Member Joined: 09/03/2010 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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regarding sponge thickness, I must admit I am not sure. it might be possible that thicker sponge will give some higher throw than thinner, but I think that this should be not big difference, it's the property of the sponge together with topsheet combination which defines its throw mostly I think
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a23096713
Super Member Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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I had tried a 1.5 and 1.9 version of the same rubber on my forehand. I can tell you, it depends on how hard you are hitting it. For the 1.5, because I loop it too hard sometimes that result in super low throw. The ball practically hit the blade and the ball leave the racket so fast that it didn't have any dwelling time. 1.9 doesn't have the same problem as it's difficult to cause the ball to re-bounce as fast. Also, you have to take into consideration of how soft your rubber is. The softer it is, I would not recommend thin rubber unless you are focusing on chopping.
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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friendship
Super Member Joined: 09/03/2010 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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could it be bottoming out? regarding performing differently to various strokes regarding throw angle, I can agree from many angles. the power of shot and type of stroke make difference among throw angle of rubber. I mentioned somewhere that some 729 rubbers can produce very high throw on loops and at the same time middle or even lower throw on more direct shots like drive. meaning they are not linear at all regarding throw angle and type of shot |
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Timo Boll2
Beginner Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Well i`m going to tell you what i think.When a person plays a chop that means he don`t plays forehand because he`s afraid the ball will go out so he plays a chop to make sure the ball always goes in and he`s trying to put a real pressure on you so that you lose your patience and he`s knocking you of balance and he wins every time.You must hit a deep,hard shots-with a topspin.That way it will be very hard for him to hit the ball so his chops won`t work anymore and he will have to play forehands which obviously is his weak side.Now he`s got no weapons and that helps you very much.
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Griffin
Member Joined: 09/02/2010 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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This is helpful.. Thanks a bunch.. Cheers. |
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Have a great day...
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