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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2010 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Pushblocker,
Thanks for uploading the videos. No offense, after watched some of them, I think the method to beat you is: (1) must release and stay cool, DO NOT get mad. (2) play ping pong (hit / push) for a easy / assure ball placement (3) use slow-lift-high loop, only use topspin power loop when you are out of position. Or try to push you away from the table.
On the other hand, you seem to have trouble with long serve, do you? Do you consider to switch the blade-side and loop/drive on backhand making a surprise attack once in a while?

That's a good strategy! However, most players can't execute it. If you watch my video against Adam Brown (just look through my videos). He is a high 2100 level player  and he played exactly the right strategy and I still beat him.. Against Cory Eider, I was ahead 9:7 in game 5 an he played a good strategy etc. etc.. I'm used to playing players who know what do do against my game.. Even if they do the right things, they still have to fight for every point.. The difference is that they don't give me easy points if they play patient.. I do occasionally attack from the backhand by twiddling, depends a lot on the opponent.. If I can win without attacking, I won't do it. If you look through my videos, you'll see that I do attack occasionally..
Long serves bother me if they are done occasionally.. If they are done frequently, I easily adjust to them..


In my experience, at 2000+ level there's almost always a "corner coach" for most of my opponents... They would tell their players to execute the correct strategy against LP blockers, but more often than not the proper strategy could not be executed good enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2010 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

That's a good strategy! However, most players can't execute it. If you watch my video against Adam Brown (just look through my videos). He is a high 2100 level player  and he played exactly the right strategy and I still beat him.. Against Cory Eider, I was ahead 9:7 in game 5 an he played a good strategy etc. etc.. I'm used to playing players who know what do do against my game.. Even if they do the right things, they still have to fight for every point.. The difference is that they don't give me easy points if they play patient.. I do occasionally attack from the backhand by twiddling, depends a lot on the opponent.. If I can win without attacking, I won't do it. If you look through my videos, you'll see that I do attack occasionally..
Long serves bother me if they are done occasionally.. If they are done frequently, I easily adjust to them..
 
@Pushblocker.  Your playing style sounds very much like Peter Chen's
I've been watching available footage of Peter Chen videos to incorporate some of his strategies in my game.. He is a great inspiration for my game. Even though he plays lefty penhol and I play right handed shakehand, our game plans are fairly similar..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2010 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:


In my experience, at 2000+ level there's almost always a "corner coach" for most of my opponents... They would tell their players to execute the correct strategy against LP blockers, but more often than not the proper strategy could not be executed good enough.
It's very rare that players below 2100 level can execute the strategy correctly.. Furthermore, many players below 2100 level do have specific weaknesses that I can target. There are very few players below that level that can effectively play backhand against me and that's why I usually target my opponents backhand.. Against Adam Brown for example it was different.. He has a very strong, well placed and consistent backhand, so I had to play him more frequently through his forehand and only give him difficult to attack shots into his backhand.  If you don't pay close attention to the pacement, most viewers of my videos won't realize my strategy.. I really think that my game against Adam Brown really shows a great strategy on his side but also on mine. Interestingly, it's one of my least watched videos.. Lots of players could learn from how Adam plays me. The fact that I won means nothing as it could've gone either way.. Most of the matches at that level are close.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


I applaud you for using your own personal style to overcome many great players.  However 97% is quite a few of people from all over the world. perhaps everyone should take a step back and look at what table tennis really is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 2:06am
No offense, I think Adam Brown will win next time when you met him. After I saw the video, he knows what to do (I think he watched your video before.) but he, somehow, can not execute the strategy perfectly. He place a ball to your left side within an arm length first, then follow by balls to your right side. Since you will not switch to the fh, the arm swing action will cause the ball flying off the table.
Having seen your video, maybe I should switch to lp
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Nori Nori wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


I applaud you for using your own personal style to overcome many great players.  However 97% is quite a few of people from all over the world. perhaps everyone should take a step back and look at what table tennis really is.
This forum is mostly a english language forum and the vast majority of members are from english speaking countries. I don't think that the abolute world class elite (top 100 in the world) is posting here (but I might be wrong). I know that in my country, I'm in the top 3 percent of all players. In my state, I'm in the top 2%..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

No offense, I think Adam Brown will win next time when you met him. After I saw the video, he knows what to do (I think he watched your video before.) but he, somehow, can not execute the strategy perfectly. He place a ball to your left side within an arm length first, then follow by balls to your right side. Since you will not switch to the fh, the arm swing action will cause the ball flying off the table.
Having seen your video, maybe I should switch to lp
I think that matches between me and Adam Brown can go either way. We play approximately at the same level.. I know what he is doing and he knows what I'm doing. I know where his weakness is and would target it if we would play again. This would be no guarantee to win.. I don't think there is a magic bullet for me or him to win all the matches.. Just like the match in the video, our matches will very likely be very close. I'm sure that he can beat me.. no doubt about it.  I'd say that there's a 50/50 chance for each of us, every time we play.. It's really a myth that players will get used to me if they play me frequently.. I'm still playing the same record (sometimes even better) against the players that I play every week..

Edited by Pushblocker - 12/28/2010 at 9:38am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Nori Nori wrote:


[QUOTE=Pushblocker]Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


That's because all the high level players aren't discussing what equipment to use and looking at other peoples videos and criticising on this forum. They are in the training hall. The main problem with the style you play is that it's not that easy on the eye, but if your ok with that then why does it matter what other people think. Stop trying to argue your case and let your results/rating do the talking. That's what I do.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by pinger123 pinger123 wrote:

Originally posted by Nori Nori wrote:


[QUOTE=Pushblocker]Looks like that my video is bringing out the pips hater in masses.. I'm certain that I'll very likely beat 97+% of the members on this forum without even trying hard.. Those who have played me are aware of that.. Things LOOK different in videos than they are in real life. I'm not fighting to win the debate here, I'm fighting to win real life matches at tournaments and obviousely, I'm doing a pretty good job on that!


That's because all the high level players aren't discussing what equipment to use and looking at other peoples videos and criticising on this forum. They are in the training hall. The main problem with the style you play is that it's not that easy on the eye, but if your ok with that then why does it matter what other people think. Stop trying to argue your case and let your results/rating do the talking. That's what I do.
It's not that I really care what people think as I won't change anybody's mind but I do like to challenge those who think that they can beat me easily.. I love challenge matches, especially if the challenger plays well below my playing level..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2010 at 6:25pm
Nice game pushblocker, I know your style is not as fancy nor as fast as other offensive players with proper basic skills but your doing a great job your self.  For some your ball are easy to hit, but its not, I've played with some that not as exactly as your style but almost the same stroke, and its deceptive and you need to be more aggressive and be more accurate in winning your point, otherwise alot of unforced errors will be done.    Well done!!Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 6:37am

Pushblocker - if you don't mind me asking do you attack on the forehand? If you could do you think you would reach the next level?

Also when you say you are in the top 3% in the US is that in your rating or all the players?. In the UK we have a set number system which means I have a rating of X. I know when i was playing in Europe they have a banded system which I think is like the US's. "A" rating being international or top 10 etc "B" being the slightly lower ranked and etc. It is the same? 
 
It looks like 2010 has been a good year winning the state champs etc Smile. Do you think you can repeat the win again next year?.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 8:43am
Like his game or not, Pushblocker's rating places him in the top several percent of all players in our nation, period.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:17am
I wasn't debating how good or bad pushblocker was. I was asking if the rating system was the same/similar as in some of the european areas.  Also if he could develop a strong attacking game to match the close to the table pimps game so that there was more of a threat against stronger players, would it take his game to the next level, which is 2300 or 2400 maybe?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:31am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Pushblocker - if you don't mind me asking do you attack on the forehand? If you could do you think you would reach the next level?

Also when you say you are in the top 3% in the US is that in your rating or all the players?. In the UK we have a set number system which means I have a rating of X. I know when i was playing in Europe they have a banded system which I think is like the US's. "A" rating being international or top 10 etc "B" being the slightly lower ranked and etc. It is the same? 
 
It looks like 2010 has been a good year winning the state champs etc Smile. Do you think you can repeat the win again next year?.
The problem is that my blocking and pushing game is based on my extreme backhand stance. It's almost a one-sided penhold game, just different.. If I want to play forehand, I have to turn 180 degrees which makes it impossible for me to hit a forehand when I don't have time and at my level, most opponents, I don't get a lot of slow balls. The only way for me to attack effectively would be through my backhand by twiddling. My stance also allows me to hit a fairly powerful backhand attack. Our rating system is different from the UK.. However, we have a so called Rating Tree from the USATT website.. My playing level is considered "women national team level" but I'm still well below men's national team level..
 
Here's the chart: (the numbers indicate the rating to the right of the number and not to the left, so, above 2200 is woman national team level..
 
 
As for repeating the State Championship win... it all depends who plays and how good I will play. I did play extremely well at the club leading up to the State Championships and hardly lost any matches at all. I was also lucky that the residing champion did not play as he got married and it seems like his new wife does not let him play a lot of TT.. He hasn't played a tournament in months and he used to play all of them.. However, I do have a chance against him as I only lost 11:8 in the fifth game when we last played in June..
 


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/29/2010 at 9:33am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:35am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I wasn't debating how good or bad pushblocker was. I was asking if the rating system was the same/similar as in some of the european areas.  Also if he could develop a strong attacking game to match the close to the table pimps game so that there was more of a threat against stronger players, would it take his game to the next level, which is 2300 or 2400 maybe?
My goal is to REACH 2300 level (actually, my ultimate goal is 2312 or higher) as this would make me the highest rated non-attacking long pips blockers EVER in this country. The previous record is held by Peter Chen who reached 2311 rating with a mostly passive blocking game (lefty penhold long pips)
However, I don't plan on keeping that level for long as I just don't have the time to practice enough. I know that I can stay at my current level with my current amount of practice but to stay at above 2300 level takes a lot more training and practice.. That's time that I don't have..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/29/2010 at 9:36am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:36am
Cheers thanks for the chart. I see, if you attack you end up losing the strong pimple game. Makes sense totally. A good backhand attack is always a fall back if you need to. thanks

Edited by ghostzen - 12/29/2010 at 9:37am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:39am

That would be great if you could get to a new level for the style you play. Being the best at what you do in the county would be something special.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:42am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Cheers thanks for the chart. I see, if you attack you end up losing the strong pimple game. Makes sense totally. A good backhand attack is always a fall back if you need to. thanks
The key to my effective blocking is balance.. With this stance, I get very good balance for my shots. It also helps a lot to attack with my backhand as it allows me to hit very hard.. If you see my occasional backhand hits, you'll notice that they hardly ever come back as I hit them very hard.. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 9:47am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

That would be great if you could get to a new level for the style you play. Being the best at what you do in the county would be something special.

I believe that CURRENTLY, I'm the highest rated NON-ATTACKING long pips blocker in the country. However, one player like that has reached a higher level in 2005 than I'm currently at..
 
In a ranking of ALL long pips blockers, including those who attack a lot, I'm usually between 5th and 7th in the country.. Right now, none of them is in the 2400's.. We have Sakda Timsuwan, Rob Van Lier, John-Mark Wetzler, Robert Shahnazari and Duc Loi who are currently higher rated than me.. However, all of them frequently attack.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 10:10am
Only arrogance im seeing in this video or comments is from Pushblocker.
Even if u beat 99% in here, u don't have to say u do. Even if they say ur style sucks, u dont have to tell them u beat them with it.
Fact is ur style is unorthodox, noone would teach you to play this way. U dont have any technique, else u would use ur forehand aswell, probably the reason u went to long pips in the first place (masking lack of technique).
U say u dont rely on ur deceptive long pips, but it seems u cant read the spin it gives urself, seeing ur missing every shot where he just gives u ur own spin back.
Also say u can't train on ur forehand because u dont want to leave the table? Shows even more how much u rely on the long pips, ever heard of take 1 step back to gain 3? So what if u lose while trying forehand more often, in the end u would be getting used to it and thus get better.
Beating people because they dont know how to play against an unorthodox style, I wouldn't really claim the win on ur skill, more the lack of skill on the other end.
 
U can go call me a pip hater but I actually dont mind playing them if they have any technique.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

Only arrogance im seeing in this video or comments is from Pushblocker.
Even if u beat 99% in here, u don't have to say u do. Even if they say ur style sucks, u dont have to tell them u beat them with it.
Fact is ur style is unorthodox, noone would teach you to play this way. U dont have any technique, else u would use ur forehand aswell, probably the reason u went to long pips in the first place (masking lack of technique).
U say u dont rely on ur deceptive long pips, but it seems u cant read the spin it gives urself, seeing ur missing every shot where he just gives u ur own spin back.
Also say u can't train on ur forehand because u dont want to leave the table? Shows even more how much u rely on the long pips, ever heard of take 1 step back to gain 3? So what if u lose while trying forehand more often, in the end u would be getting used to it and thus get better.
Beating people because they dont know how to play against an unorthodox style, I wouldn't really claim the win on ur skill, more the lack of skill on the other end.
 
U can go call me a pip hater but I actually dont mind playing them if they have any technique.
I'm only responding to ridiculous claims.. I'm a 100% self-taught player and at that point, there is no way for me to play a standard game nor do I want to do so. I've been playing with long pips for a very long time and playing a different game would require to re-learn the game completely which I'm not going to do since I only have time to play twice a week. I play to win and not to play beautiful. I'm happy at the level that I'm currently playing and I wouldn't intentionally drop a level or 2 trying to change style.. I'm very comfortable with my style, and other than attacking more from my backhand (twiddling), I have no intention of changing too much.  At my age, it's extremely unlikely that changing my style would eventually raise my level as it won't. I don't have the time or athleticism to play a offensive forehand oriented style. I know that I can play my style until age 75 or longer...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I'm only responding to ridiculous claims.. I'm a 100% self-taught player and at that point, there is no way for me to play a standard game nor do I want to do so. I've been playing with long pips for a very long time and playing a different game would require to re-learn the game completely which I'm not going to do since I only have time to play twice a week. I play to win and not to play beautiful. I'm happy at the level that I'm currently playing and I wouldn't intentionally drop a level or 2 trying to change style.. I'm very comfortable with my style, and other than attacking more from my backhand (twiddling), I have no intention of changing too much.  At my age, it's extremely unlikely that changing my style would eventually raise my level as it won't. I don't have the time or athleticism to play a offensive forehand oriented style. I know that I can play my style until age 75 or longer...
 
A win is a win no matter how ugly...LOLClap  just because you lose to an unorthdox style you don't need to bash it, it just means your game is not well rounded enough to play all styles.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 11:53am
What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Gr8GrZ Gr8GrZ wrote:

What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.
 
That's just a matter of opinion. If you enter to play a tournament, you should expect to play all styles. We agree to disagree. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

Only arrogance im seeing in this video or comments is from Pushblocker.
Even if u beat 99% in here, u don't have to say u do. Even if they say ur style sucks, u dont have to tell them u beat them with it.
Fact is ur style is unorthodox, noone would teach you to play this way. U dont have any technique, else u would use ur forehand aswell, probably the reason u went to long pips in the first place (masking lack of technique).
U say u dont rely on ur deceptive long pips, but it seems u cant read the spin it gives urself, seeing ur missing every shot where he just gives u ur own spin back.
Also say u can't train on ur forehand because u dont want to leave the table? Shows even more how much u rely on the long pips, ever heard of take 1 step back to gain 3? So what if u lose while trying forehand more often, in the end u would be getting used to it and thus get better.
Beating people because they dont know how to play against an unorthodox style, I wouldn't really claim the win on ur skill, more the lack of skill on the other end.
 
U can go call me a pip hater but I actually dont mind playing them if they have any technique.
                  
 
+2 Clap Amen brother.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by Gr8GrZ Gr8GrZ wrote:

What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.
 
That's just a matter of opinion. If you enter to play a tournament, you should expect to play all styles. We agree to disagree. Big smile


the definition of "well-rounded" is called for here.

arguably your game is not complete if you cannot play against pips. However I don't see how a game based almost entirely on backhand blocking can be called well-rounded either. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by addoydude addoydude wrote:

Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by Gr8GrZ Gr8GrZ wrote:

What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.
 
That's just a matter of opinion. If you enter to play a tournament, you should expect to play all styles. We agree to disagree. Big smile


the definition of "well-rounded" is called for here.

arguably your game is not complete if you cannot play against pips. However I don't see how a game based almost entirely on backhand blocking can be called well-rounded either. 
 
I agree with the above, I also never stated that PB's style is well-rounded.
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:

Originally posted by Thomasson Thomasson wrote:

Only arrogance im seeing in this video or comments is from Pushblocker.
Even if u beat 99% in here, u don't have to say u do. Even if they say ur style sucks, u dont have to tell them u beat them with it.
Fact is ur style is unorthodox, noone would teach you to play this way. U dont have any technique, else u would use ur forehand aswell, probably the reason u went to long pips in the first place (masking lack of technique).
U say u dont rely on ur deceptive long pips, but it seems u cant read the spin it gives urself, seeing ur missing every shot where he just gives u ur own spin back.
Also say u can't train on ur forehand because u dont want to leave the table? Shows even more how much u rely on the long pips, ever heard of take 1 step back to gain 3? So what if u lose while trying forehand more often, in the end u would be getting used to it and thus get better.
Beating people because they dont know how to play against an unorthodox style, I wouldn't really claim the win on ur skill, more the lack of skill on the other end.
 
U can go call me a pip hater but I actually dont mind playing them if they have any technique.
                  
 
+2 Clap Amen brother.



PB has shown plenty of arrogance in his posts, no doubt... But both of you have shown plenty of ignorance by slinging mud anonymously against him and the LP style.  Statements like "u don't have any technique" and  "shows how much U rely on the long pips" are utterly ridiculous and baseless.

I would put my money on PB against both of you.  Put up your videos or shut up for once.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Gr8GrZ Gr8GrZ wrote:

What is said above might be true, but however it is the LP player that does not have a well rounded game, not the other way around.


Are you talking about all LP players or just Pushblocker? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2010 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

  PB has shown plenty of arrogance in his posts, no doubt... But both of you have shown plenty of ignorance by slinging mud anonymously against him and the LP style.  Statements like "u don't have any technique" and  "shows how much U rely on the long pips" are utterly ridiculous and baseless.

I would put my money on PB against both of you.  Put up your videos or shut up for once.  Wink
 
Perhaps if I had accomplished what PB has done, I'd also be arrogant/proud. There's a thin/fine line between the two. 
I'd love to be a State Champion. I think I need to move to the Big Island.LOL
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