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Butterfly Dignics 09C |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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Posted: 09/08/2021 at 9:43pm |
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09c is perfectly fine out of the package, but it needs a reboost after 4-5 months. My 9 months old sheet has only had one reboost and still way better performance than a comparable esn rubber after that time.
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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D64 and D80 are perfectly playable without any booster. Boosting would ruin them.
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timoboll89
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2009 Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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I disagree...tenergy and esn are playable out of the package. To bring out dignics potential you need to boost.
There is no reason to prefer a dignics over a tenergy without booster because if you apply just water based glue the rubber reaches 30% of its potential whereas with tenergy or all esn rubbers you have 80% without booster. What i mean is that you can play with an unboosted dignics but you are wasting money
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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@Blahness, agreed. Seguso has accidentally(?) stated a case to buy Dignics 09c over H8. Especially if those players don't play frequently enough to want the hassle of boosting their rubber. Edited by Tinykin - 09/06/2021 at 2:11pm |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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You can say the same for any rubber. That is, most high level players prefer a boosted rubber if allowed and if they can afford it.
Edited by Tinykin - 09/06/2021 at 11:04am |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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timoboll89
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2009 Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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dignics rubbers (09C included) are made for booster...the rubbers without booster feel dead.
For sure you can still play with them but there are many less expensive rubbers out there. If you play at a good level (i wont say pro but a semipro player) then dignics with booster are just on a different planet.
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4227 |
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Hurricane 8 does not have that solid feeling of D09c. For an advanced player, I doubt that boosted H8 can provide as much power and support as D09c for strong hit or loop.
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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You are way out of my league here! ;>}
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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@blahness fair enough :)) though iIn my experience you just need 3 layers to prime the rubber before glueing, then you don't need to unglue it . (baby oil on topsheet every 2 days without unglueing)Edited by seguso - 09/06/2021 at 9:57am |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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I tried a brand new D09C for 2 minutes, and I found it very very similar to the rubber I'm using, Hurricane 8 40deg with 3 layers of booster. So if you wa
nt to save money... Your analysis is very sound. D09C, with its hard sponge and tackier topsheet, must have been designed to compete with the Hurricane line, without the hassle of boosting, to strive to realize the benefits of this famed rubber line. Butterfly was successful here. D05 was targeted to the Tenergy users and attempted users who find the bounciness of Tenergy just a bit too much for the all around play that is needed in today's game or to those Tenergy users who wanted to explore an advanced and emergingly important topsheet trend that is resulting in a degree of greater spin generation. Thanks.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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If you count the cost of the time involved in boosting, it'll pay for itself very fast
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-------
Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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I tried a brand new D09C for 2 minutes, and I found it very very similar to the rubber I'm using, Hurricane 8 40deg with 3 layers of booster. So if you want to save money... D9c might have a bit more catapult, but same throw, similar hardness, similar grip. basically you play the same. For comparison, Dignics 05 is low throw and faster, with respect to both rubbers. If you play with D05 with the same stroke you use with H8 or D09c, you net the ball . Note: the D09c was was mounted on a TB ALC; the H8 on my Viscaria, which is almost the same blade. Note: H8 black is a bit different from the red , more inconsistent (some play well and some are very dead and don't react to boosting). so I suggest you get a red one first.
Edited by seguso - 09/06/2021 at 7:28am |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Sounds ?but I know the diffrence you can love and breathe butterlfly but you cant compare both brands people dont have audis because they cant pay but me and many people can buy butterfly but dont like it
Edited by mykonos96 - 01/29/2020 at 3:30am |
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vik2000
Super Member Joined: 06/29/2018 Location: Behind you Status: Offline Points: 264 |
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Sounds like you don't know anything about cars.
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Price is set by the market. That's it. If it does not sell in sufficient quantities, Butterfly will lower the price.
In terms of actual price, D05 has more than double playing life of any ESN rubber I have tried to date and plays better for my spin heavy style of play than anything else I have tried to date. In other words, for me, it is absolutely worth the money and, given the longevity, is a good value. I will most certainly try D09C on the FH when it is available. It sounds like it will be right up my alley especially if durability is comparable to D05. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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A luxury car is truly better built than cheaper car but butterfly rubbers are slightly better in performance but way expensive. I see people with korbel and TBS blades that are splintered in the surface
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Amongst the general population? Sure. Amongst serious players? Who knows. Demographics matter.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I don't see your logic there. In most retail categories, the top selling items are the modest items, but that doesn't make the more expensive items over-priced. Luxury cars don't sell as well as more moderately priced cars, but people like them enough that they do sell. It would be absurd to call them over-priced. |
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Dream1700
Super Member Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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Only two out of the top ten best selling rubbers in Japan are made by BTY (T05 and Rozena). To me, this is a fairly good indication that BTY rubbers are overpriced.
Edited by Dream1700 - 01/25/2020 at 2:11pm |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I disagree with most of what you're saying. Pharmaceuticals is a special case because you're balancing the moral needs of people's health against the price that a supplier chooses to charge and supplies are usually offered under monopoly conditions due to patents.. However, most products sold in the world are optional, and that certainly applies to table tennis. The value of something that is sold is whatever people are willing to pay. There is no intrinsic "actual value". 800 years ago it was proposed that items have a "fair value", but that's a pretty discredited idea now. And perception is a part of value. In fact, economists would measure value as marginal utility, which basically means what something is worth to a person for whatever reason, including perception. Whether a given product is over-priced would be measured by whether there are enough people buying that product to justify its manufacture. If Dignics sells well for Butterfly at its current price, then its not over-priced. It may not be worth that price to you, but that's true for lots of things: you (or I) might not think it's worth spending a million dollars on a famous painting; or (in more prosaic terms), we might insist on buying generic store-brand products at the grocery store, rather than identical name brand products. We make those choices about what things are worth to us (their utility), but that doesn't really say anything about the products themselves. If there are other people who will pay what you or I will not, then that's what those items are worth. Where I live, I know a number of people who use D05, ranging from 1400 level to 2200 level. Virtually none of these people have any special loyalty to Butterfly or keep much track of what professionals play with (so marketing had no affect on them). They just tried the rubber (sometimes by borrowing my paddle) and found they liked it enough to pay the price. On the other hand, I know of a wealthy doctor who tried D05 (again, on my paddle), and really liked it, but refused to buy it on general grounds (because he just didn't want to spend that much on table tennis equipment). My personal experience in transitioning to D05: I was a long-time T05 user, but I always felt like there were certain aspects of T05 that could be improved (specifically for my play, not for anyone else). When D05 came out, it sounded like it had the changes i wanted, but I was in no hurry to buy it. However, an opportunity came my way to buy a single sheet at a heavily-discounted price. Once I tried it, I found that it really did resolve my concerns with T05 and was enough of an improvement for my game that it's worth the extra cost. Having now used D05 for a while, I have also found the added bonus that it's more durable that T05, so that I don't really consider it more expensive that T05 anyway.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2810 |
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That's a bad definition and a very unhealthy and poor mentality to have. For example, there are pharmaceutical drugs that are vastly overpriced and yet people still buy them because they often have no other choice. Outside of pharmaceuticals, where people do have more of a choice, there are a vast number of products that are overpriced and have much more evenly priced counterparts equal in quality, but people still purchase the overpriced product because it has a logo that makes their brain release feel good chemicals. Perceived value and actual value are often very different things. If you perceive an overpriced item to be worth more than it is, despite a flood of information indicating otherwise, you are intentionally participating in willing ignorance. Keep in mind, I and almost everyone at the time of this writing has never even touched a sheet of Dignics 09C, but if Dignics 05 is any indicator, 09C will likely not be worth the price. I just can't base full judgement on mostly conjecture.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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I've never seen an over-priced item in table tennis; can you show me one and explain how it's over-priced? I've already seen things that not everyone would choose to buy, but to be really over-priced, it would imply that almost no one would buy that product due to too high of a price. That certainly can't apply to Dignics, since I know plenty of people who buy it without complaint, including myself.
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b3nhold
Member Joined: 09/21/2014 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Well the 09c would be tacky for a start
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JPen player.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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no need to change your life style - just don't pay for overpriced products
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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Buy a bidet for 35-40 usd and your toilet paper usage will decrease by maybe 80%, and your butt will be far cleaner. You can reinvest your savings into whatever EJing you need to do
Edited by Basquests - 01/24/2020 at 9:24am |
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Dream1700
Super Member Joined: 12/02/2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 410 |
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no need selling your kidney. most people could save up for a sheet of Dignics over 3-12 months by lowering their callorie intake and toilet paper usage.
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taczkid
Super Member Joined: 05/19/2016 Location: ILLINOIS Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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butterflyonline.com Officialy posted today, that 09C will be available April 1. Time to start saving, if you start today with about $1.50/day savings by the time it comes out you will have $ to buy it lol
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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Well, Timo switched to T05 hard on the FH in the fall of 2018, which I think is when it came out. But last winter (first quarter of 2019), there were a series of matches on video (mostly Bundisliga) where he was playing with what looked like T09C. It was on the ITTF approved list and was reported to have a tacky top sheet. I don't know how long he stuck with it, but I think he eventually switched back to T05h. There was a whole thread here about T09C and i thought we'd eventually see it. Now, instead, we get D09C. There is a Daily Dan interview with Timo where he talks about playing with D05 on the BH and T05h on the FH. He said that T05h was better for generating power. I wonder if he'll stay with that once D09C comes out. I've been using D05 on the backhand (where I really like it) and Nittaku Turbo Orange on the FH. The question for me will be whether D09C is a suitable upgrade for the Turbo Orange.
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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Would have been a better thread if named "Dignics 401k or 403b" imo.
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