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Friendly Match US1260 vs US1537 |
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mikepong
Gold Member Joined: 03/09/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 1202 |
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be more aggressive in your shots, hit those high returns with pace and spin and dont just push them back, your form is better than theirs
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Viscaria
FH: Tenergy 05 black BH: Tenergy 05 red |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Tried it during EJ phase. 4 or 5 different models. Couldn't learn to control them :( |
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Thaidog
Gold Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1661 |
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Is he using an LP? Thtat's usually indiacitive of a very low friction LP... usually with no sponge. The motion of chop block and push can be made very similar. Useful if your opponents starts to day dream. Contact is made more on the bottom of the ball receiving underspin and more on the back of the ball with topspin. Fabian Akerstrom does this well during rallies. Our club is replete with OX LP players at the 1500 level.
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Timo ALC FL
Tibhar Grip S MAx Tenergy 64 FX National 2.1mm He never boosts... of course he never had to... |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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icontek, which part of the country are you in?
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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I agree that slow spinny loops are necessary but Alan seems to be good enough to get those back. I wouldn't expect to win the point from one spinny loop but Alan is not fast enough to handle shots angled off of one side of the table and then the other. That is why I liked Icontek's shots to the side edges of the table. I would do one loop get the the opponent to back up and then start flat hitting the high returns. I agree with those that say getting more aggressive is what is required. Make the other guy run. |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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I'm in maine. I have no aspirations greater than 1700 as there are no active players above 2000 here.
Most of the players who broke 1800 actually quit the game due to lack of competition at their level. In fact 1600 is kind of the sweet spot where there are enough players around that level to keep things interesting. I agree that aggression will help even my development, and that increasing the pressure on my opponent should yield good results. |
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Well, for one thing I think you have a GREAT setup. Virtuoso has great feel and feedback, and your choices for BH and FH rubbers are just perfect in my opinion. It is a very loopy setup.
1700 can take years to get, so don't worry about improving too fast or too much :) I'd be proud to get there myself. But there are many players at my club with 'fading careers' that never got there : ) We have many players on any level up to 2300 in our club. As a matter of fact if I get to 1700 it will be easier to get matches, because now people frown when I challenge them :( |
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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If the loop is spinny enough, then he surely won't be able to block it. Even then icontek can just continuously loop until he wins the point since Alan isn't going to attack that loop. It's going to be exactly like drilling. |
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Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40° BTY T64 210g |
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dabookerman
Silver Member Joined: 04/10/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 697 |
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I have a few thoughts, too. Thanks for posting the second video; the first video looks awkward while it looks like both of you are playing much more seriously in the second.
It looks like you are treating your serve simply as a way to begin a point (i.e. way too casually). Get down lower over the ball and use your serve to win points outright and/or accentuate the rest of your point strategy. Make sure to keep your knees bent and stay in good position for your strokes throughout the points. Watch out for your flying shoulder. This is a problem that I struggle with and it is best rectified through multi-ball drills. It can also help to play with a quick counter hitter. The problem of playing a defensive player is that it is easy to overhit and lose your form. Try thinking about this - the swing should rotate around the center of your body so have the the rotation drive your arm motion rather than vice versa - that thought helps keep me balanced. Ironically, this entire motion from one to the next is why you have BOTH an erratic FH and play BH oriented. You need to develop better balance between the two shots. I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish with the BH shots as others have mentioned. Are those supposed to be pushes? Kudos for posting! |
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Photino FL
Yasaka Rising Dragon Short Pips |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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That works against lower level players but at 1500 I bet Alan knows enough to close the paddle a little when he sees a spinny loop coming his way. icontek would need to make some 1500 level loop kills to get away with winning against a good defender with just one shot.
It isn't necessary to loop after icontek has gained and seized the advantage. Alan's returns are so high one can simply flat hit and trade spin for speed. Edited by pnachtwey - 11/18/2011 at 10:16pm |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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That's not me in the second video. He looks more serious in the second video because his opponent is more predictable. He looks uncomfortable against me in the first video because he doesn't know whether I will attack or simply bloop it over to lure him into making a mistake. |
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dabookerman
Silver Member Joined: 04/10/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 697 |
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sorry...
I'll watch that one again.
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Photino FL
Yasaka Rising Dragon Short Pips |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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The whole blocking loops thing is a bit like serving, you serve a sidespin to a beginner and you will win the point, at a certain (low) level predictable spin no matter how much of it there is becomes just another ball. The same thing happens with loops, you get to a point where no matter how much spin is on them if the opponent can get to the ball on balance and in time you can be 100% sure it's a non effective shot, once again you get back the the same old place of having to win the point on placement and getting the ball *past* the guy.
I'm quite sure you can still win 90% of loops outright against a 1500 level guy if you are well over 2000 even hit straight to him but another 1500 level player just isn't going to have that quality of stroke
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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So I watched half of the 2nd video and I can't force myself to watch the rest of it. Outside of basement players it is the 2nd most boring match I have ever seen. Push, push, push, fish, push, finally something ridiculously high - hit. The pushes weren't even strategically placed - all were towards the center of the table. Someone please teach these guys how to attack underspin. And why were there NO short serves? Not a single one.
Against the guy you played...just loop to his backhand side. He doesn't play close to the table so you'll have plenty of time to recover if he returns it. If he returns it, it will likely be a chop/fish because he doesn't do much else w/ his BH. Put the next ball short to his FH side and make him run. If I had to guess - a fast loop and the point is over.
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dabookerman
Silver Member Joined: 04/10/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 697 |
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I would do more to punish the loose lobs. I would also work more on attacking his FH with your serve.
Since these are not tournament matches, you might use the match to focus on a specific tactic like killing the lobs.
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Photino FL
Yasaka Rising Dragon Short Pips |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Still improving I see, your backhand is working at times when the ball comes to the right place, so be ready to move to get more shots in, you a serving for a reason but just need some better third ball finishes.
As you are a backhand player (maybe unintentional) you tend to follow a middle ball witha backhand shot rather than piviting, also because you take it with your backhand you end up square to the table and this reduces your ablility to do a better forehand, the best way is to just tell yourself to do forehands and you will play better loops, drives and smacks
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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roar
Silver Member Joined: 03/30/2011 Status: Offline Points: 658 |
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I hope you don't take it as rude to suggest you watch a professional like Ma Long and mimic their movements. Right now you look like you're just being lazy on a lot of things you could easily remedy:
1. If the ball is chopped or pushed long enough that it's able to be attacked, then get under it and use topspin. 2. Looks like you're standing on your heels in quite a few spots. 3. Stop trying to backhand from far away and move to your forehand. Admittedly, you're playing in a small space but the top professionals ALWAYS prefer to move to their forehands when attacking a chop or a lob. 4. Keep your knees bent. 5. Quit letting your opponent serve when you're still walking back to the table - you always wait for him, why not expect the same courtesy? |
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dabookerman
Silver Member Joined: 04/10/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 697 |
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I also noticed that it appears that your opponent is rushing to serve to you. I play a few folks like that and make sure that I double-bounce my tosses of the ball back to them.
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Photino FL
Yasaka Rising Dragon Short Pips |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I go one step further at times. I hold the ball until I'm about 90% set and then toss it to them. That usually makes the point. You can, of course, hold your hand up to signal that you aren't ready when they start the quick serve, but I think it is better to just head it off at the pass. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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I agree with the lazy comment. I am lead of foot. Transitioning from a stand at the table push/pick hit game to a more allround game means I need to learn very different movements; depth is even more challenging than side to side. The knees bent is a work in progress, I usually use my serve receive to get low and then adjust height accordingly. Thanks to all the players who pointed out that my opponent serves before I was ready; I remember that in game now, and just noticed it on my 3rd watch of the video. Does anyone have tips for learning to adjust depth position? I've found that if my serve receive is 2 feet from table it's possible still to step in for short stuff and receiving long serves is easier. |
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chrisgrace
Member Joined: 11/17/2011 Location: New York, NY Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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I have no tips, just wanted to say thanks for posting the thread. It's very helpful to read about someone else trying to improve their game.
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Followup:
Uploaded a recent 2-1 win against the same player. I tried to be more Forehand Aggressive and had a Hurricane 3 relapse (for the beauty of One and Done drives). I never realized how tough it is to play in 50 degree weather :) I was wearing gloves to start with I think. Basically, this style of push-pickhit is how I've played for years. I wait for people to make a mistake and then try to end the point with single shot. The original post is a departure from my "normal" game. I tried pushing long/fast deep with BH to better setup my FH. It mostly worked. I think I missed every BH topspin except this one. . I can't say that I successfully integrated any other feedback. Just FH attacked earlier and it won me more points than it lost. I'll probably go back to TinArc, but I still don't understand the players who say that H3 Neo Provincial is slow on drives. It doesn't feel slow when I muscle the ball... It just feels slow every other stroke :) |
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hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
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Most of what I said last time still holds true. You were more aggressive on the high balls, but that's it. With how both of you were returning serves, this should have been a 3rd ball attack highlight reel.
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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I think I like your earlier video better though, at lease in the other video you take the advantage of your strong BH. In this video I still see you still play your BH around 90% of the time, but without the aggressiveness. Your FH looks good, but you waited forever before you unleased one, against a more aggressive player you may not get that chance. I am BH dominant too, not as much as you, but I tend to use BH a bit more than I should, and like you, I hesitant to attack on FH. My coach help me fix it by making me loose the point, if I am in position and don't attack on the FH side, and it helps a lot, now since I am going to loose the point anyway, I just 'swing baby swing' .
BTW - since you seem to care so much about legal service, make note that some of your toss on the BH serve is quite low, looks like you are rushing to get ready for the next ball or something. I do this too, but did not realize until someone pointed it out...
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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My only advice (I am about the same level as you are but rapidly improving) is to practice with faster rubbers *if* you have stronger players to each you the technique. Your real problem is that you don't have stronger players to work with - the people who are criticizing you from afar take those things for granted.
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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I come to New Hampshire a couple of times a year (around Manchester/Nashua area). Is that close enough to where you are for us to meet for a practice? I have been talking to you on the internet on and off for years and now that I have seen a few videos, there are a couple of details of your game that I am just itching to try to fix. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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I agree with hookumsnivy's and mhnh007's comments.
I don't agree with NextLevel. It isn't the rubber. Icontek needs to think differently (aggressively). I can think aggressively with Reflectoid on my FH or with a hard bat. Icontek needs a different opponent that plays very aggressively. Such an opponent would not give you much of a chance to push more than once before putting him on the defensive. There was way too much pushing. Even then the pushing could have be directed at the edges of the table but it wasn't most of the time. There are way too many long serves that simply got pushed back. There are times when the ball comes back so slowly that you have time to step around the ball and hit it hard with your FH. I did like the part where Alan showed some frustration. Alan wasn't playing as well as in the first video. Alan made a few good shots from way back in the first video. You got some good breaks with the net too. |
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dabookerman
Silver Member Joined: 04/10/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 697 |
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I agree with the comments about too much pushing. I know that you were critical of your BH offense, but keep in mind that you still need to work on those techniques in matches (I can understand if this was a "let me put it all together" match since you were playing a higher rated rival, though).
One thing that stood out to me on some points was that you are beginning your stroke (especially on the FH side) with too much of an angle in your wrist. You can see examples of this right off the bat at around 30 and 40 seconds. Since I'm not drawing a picture, the easiest way to explain it is if you were to hold your paddle and stretch your arm out in front of you, there should be nearly a straight line from your elbow through your paddle. You'll have to point your fingers down to the floor in order to do this. Said another way, there should be a roughly 180 degree angle between the handle of your paddle and your forearm, but on some of your shots you begin with a 90 degree angle. The ideal wrist position when you start your stroke is 180 degrees or else you will limit your range of motion and consequentially your spin and power. Is the other guy going into labor at times?
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Photino FL
Yasaka Rising Dragon Short Pips |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Just hit your backhand drives from in front of you, ie if the ball is going to your left just move over and take from in front of you. Your timing and success rate will go up (Im a ITTF level 1 registerd coach) just for fun have a backhand to backhand rally with a mate and take everything in front of your bellybutton and see what happens
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1401 |
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Who's giving birth in the background? I see good growth, much more aggressive on the FH. Of course you didn't integrate any other feedback, it's really, really tough to change your mentality on more than one aspect at a time because it takes so much focus. Take your time, don't try to change everything at once, and you'll see results pretty fast. You can probably see some tangible improvements in two weeks, and in a couple of months your mentality will be changed almost 100% of the time if you focus. By then you can work on the next aspect, but you still gotta watch out for the occasional times when you slip back to old habits. It takes many months for the new mentality to become second nature. Have something to work on every time you play, be goal-oriented, and you'll zoom up the ratings chart as fast as a heavily coached junior with pushy parents! And don't worry about people's comments regarding the H3Neo. It's got a hard sponge that can only be unleashed when you take the effort to really dig into the sponge. It's like hitting a baseball with a baseball bat vs. a trampoline. If you just bounce the ball on them, the trampoline will seem faster, but try hitting a home run with it!
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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