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Is Multiball Helping? |
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Rack
Gold Member Joined: 07/13/2008 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1122 |
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Very true indeed... anyways good luck to the OP. Hope you get to where you wanna go and you get good points of view from a variety of different people. Edited by Rack - 11/18/2012 at 12:50am |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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Multiball is extremely helpful. The main problem is some coaches feed the balls way too quickly. The pace should properly match a student's ability. We have had many 10~12 year-old kids with extensive multiball training to go from beginners to 1900+ rating in less than 18 months, and 2000+ rating in less than 30 months.
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yogi_bear
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yogi_bear
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it is called muscle fatigue. its not the multiball's fault. if you really wanted to play then you should rest for at least 30 min before playing or maybe an hour |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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how about the time ?? is your students training everyday ?, 3 day a week?, how many hours a day?
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
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bbkon, we practice 3-4x a week on weekdays and 2-3 hours a day. its a bit hard if you teach more than 6-7 kids per day if you have 2-3 hours only
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mr.ishaq
Member Joined: 10/23/2012 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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If I felt my coach feed in wrong ways, what should I do?
As example for 3 balls drill (Falkernberg), my coach will give 1. normal ball to bh side (he hope we take it as basic bh stroke) 2. long underspin ball to bh side (take it with fh topspin) 3. another long underspin ball to fh side (take it as another fh topspin) 4. repeat. IMHO, if I suddenly have the chance to face that same drill in game, I'll bh toppsin (or bh stoke) > I probably will get blocked ball so I should topspin fh > I'll get forehand block (or fh topspin) to fh side, I'll move to do fh toppsin again. I believe in this example, I should get 1. normal ball 2. block ball 3. toppsin ball or block ball. That was one example why I avoid my coach. It somehow disturb my rally and I need more than a week to correct back my game. |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
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hmm, usually a falkenberg drill starts with a topspin and another 2 topspin balls or starst with an underspin ball then 2 topspin balls. falken berg supposedly, mimics a siuation where your opponent places an underspin push push on your bh and you want to loop it with your bh and have follow ups using your fh drive (2nd) and another forehand drive (3rd ball). your coach is a bit weird
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mr.ishaq
Member Joined: 10/23/2012 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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I believe I've read all comment. Thank you for the feedback. In a nutshell, as someone said it, multiball is only as good as the coach. I'm the one who should evaluate if my training really helping or not. Discuss the matter with my coach.
I still believe multiball is one of the great tools to improve although we'll be feed with the same ball and we'll use only few of those drills in real games . Later, it is a matter of adaptation, experiment and experience. Again, thank you. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." World Champion Zhang Jike
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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thank you for the info , i would like to learn more from you when teaching kids
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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Yogi, thanks for this it is a very good overview |
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Speedplay
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Multiball is great, as long as you have someone who can correct your strokes. Using multiball might also be a great way to learn bad habits, if you do it wrong.
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
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you really need patience when teaching kids. i for one didn't patience when i started but eventually developed it to better manage the kids. goodluck on your plans to teach kids
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bbkon
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apreciate if you can give me more technical advice, likw what kind of drills for kid of several ages(7,10) what they should be doing at certain age, how footwork must be taught?
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yogi_bear
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bbkon, focus more on the stroke development. for the basic drills make them drill over and over again single fh-fh and bh to bh drills using multiball. you have to observe and correct their body rotation on specific joints like the waist, knees, shoulders, backswinging of the arms and snapping of the elbow. the moment have a sort of motor memory on this you can introduce fh side to side footwork using half the table, bh-bh and then bh-forehand one step combination. teaching kids how to rotate their trunk is easy when it is stationary drill that you are using. the moment they come to footwoork like the ones i mentioned above, they will need to adjust on their body rotation in order to coordinate and time it with their footwork.
i think kids should learn all the basic drills and footwork even at an early age. the more time they spent to harness their footwork and strokes. multiball drills: basic drills 1wk to 1 month 1. fh to fh 2. bh to bh 3. fh and bh push with footwork 1month to 2 months) 1. fh to fh half table (either side to middle or middle to side towards the bh assuming you are right handed) 2. bh to bh hlaf table (backhand side) 3. flakenberg - bh-fh-fh (bh then forehand with pivot followed by fh at the middle of the table) advanced (2 months to 3 months) 1. introduction to brushing the ball with a closed angle racket against low underspin balls. before i go to loops i teach them how to brush the ball first. sometimes if a student is a fast learner i would teach them how to brush the ball at the 1st month. An alternate way to teach how to loop before going to the table: a. always make the student practice looping in slow motion first and then at regular speed on how to loop. b. with out the table. make the student bounce the ball on the floor and then let him go down, pivot and rotate his body while bending the knees assuming the proper position of looping. then let him loop the ball with a late contact. c. let him repeat this over and over again until you can see that he can properly bend and go down and brush the ball upwards. why this method? i have some success when i experimented with this method to my students. the thing is, when you are learning how to loop you would see kids rush and hit the ball even if they havent gone down and bent their knees. this method teaches how to wait for the ball and loop it at late contact. i think the best timing to teach on how to loop the ball if you are a beginner is to contact the ball once it begins to descend. not on its peak and not on the rise. 4. looping. first teach them how to loop on their forehand side and also on their bh side (still fh). as they progress you can teach them to loop using pivot and doing fh loop on their bh side. i usually teach the fh loop first for a few weeks then i go to bh looping. 3 to 4 months this is the time i start introducing some randomized drills. starting at a slow pace and then gradually increase to a realistic speed. 1. random bh and fh drills. usually on 2 points of the table for the balls to land but in a random output of the placements. as they progress add the middle point of the table in order for them to partially do a sidestep and use their fh for a return. for a more progression of difficulty add the quarter of the table placements (if you divide the 2 halves of the table into 2 more) you can have 5 random placements points on the table. 2. fh and bh push random. this is also an introduction on how to receive underspin serves both long and short. 3. flipping against underspin and no spin either random or not. 4. looping against random placements using fh loops. 1st random set up is on his fh and bh side then it progresses to fh, middle and bh giving him one ball each time at a slow pace. on a more advanced note, you can introduce to him the use ofa push and then looping the push in the random areas of the table. on a more advanced step is random placing of the ball to loop and giving him a follow up like driving or looping against his blocked loop. 5. intro to service receive especially against sidespin and combination serves. 1st is by a single side spin serve multiple times using fh forward brush looping as a receive or fh flick against short sidespin serves. same with the bh 6. fh drills (1-2-3-2-1) side-mid-side-mid-side respectively. more advanced is the (1-2-3-1 drill) which is almost the same as teh first drill but instead of going to the middle of the table you side step and go to the first point immediately. 4 to 5 months 1. intro to countering both near the table and mid distance both bh and fh. basic development is feeding them topspin balls that you have brushed on the table, more advanced is let another player loop the ball against that player in order for him to learn countering. the looping player also benifits by also countering the counter shot made by the other player until 1 of them cannot return the shot. 2. introduction to pattern table drills. basic table drills using fh to fh and bh to bh using 1 ball starts at around 2-3 months. using footwork like side to side fh or bh fh i introduce it to this stage in order for them to have proper control over the ball first and have a foundation of proper basic footwork. ill add more if i have time. feel free to ask |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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thank you yogi bear!
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power7
Silver Member Joined: 01/25/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 745 |
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For beginners and intermediates multiply ball should be used as a warm up and to correct footwork and stroke mechanics. The coach should be pointing out mistakes and focusing on students ability to control the ball.
For advance players, multiply ball takes on a whole new dimension. One common drill I've seen is working on explosive force going for the stroke. Accuracy is not important. What is important is striking the ball with explosive force. Don't worry about hitting the net, or the table, but try not to hit the coach. 100 balls of that is usually a good workout, and develops players muscle memories for the kill shots. After a long game in set 7, you'll remember this drill and ball 99 that you killed during training.
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pingpongpaddy
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Great work yogi, thanks very much
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inactive dotec carbokev
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7220 |
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agree! it takes at least 1 year to develop strokes and footwork. another year to fully polish strokes and master tactical gameplays and also dealing with long pips, anti spin and reading of spin
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mr.ishaq
Member Joined: 10/23/2012 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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I'm between beginner - intermediate player. I can do basic skill ie counterhit, toppsin but still lack of experience.
For a year our university's club didn't had coach. We just did random strokes. Once in a while, our graduated senior came and teach us with multiball. He just gave us some simple multiball - fh, bh hit and toppsin, footwork fh - fh, fh - bh. Surprisingly, those simple mulltiball help my game improve just after 3 times of training. Rather than complex set of multiball by our usual coach. Now we are back with our old coach but as I stated before, I'm afraid his training will disturb my game and I avoid him. Don't want to seem rude. Tomorrow I will join his multiball training and evaluate myself if his training helping or not. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." World Champion Zhang Jike
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yogi_bear
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why don't you to talk to him and be open about your concerns? or can you post a video with his multiball session?
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One Table Tennis
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2 Cents.
If you are < 2100, try to limit multi-balls session to 1-2 max sessions a week (if you are playing at least 7-10 hours a week). Try to do only fitness training and no other play after that. Sometimes, players want to see the benefits of multi-ball and try to train or play games immediately after the session. Not a good thing. Rest after multi-ball session is vital. 2) Not sure what type of multi-balls are being fed, but try to get him to mix it up. Short balls, normal to the backhand underspin balls, FH short to backhand deep, loop from backhand-FH-topspin-Backhand. All of these, of course over different weeks! |
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gatorling
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I believe that if you want to ingrain correct technique from very early then multi-ball is the way to go. I'm not talking about fast frequency multi-ball that has spin variation and moves you all around the table. I'm talking about 1 position or 2 position multi-ball.
It allows you to perform the same stroke on relatively the same type of return over and over and over again. It allows your coach to see what you're doing wrong and correct you. With one ball, unless your partner is very very consistent you will end up getting too much variation on each stroke..which can lead to confusion and the development of bad habits. I did multi-ball and training excercises for the first 2 2-1/2 years of playing TT. What has resulted is a decent form and decent footwork. I have the fundamental understanding of strokes down now and I feel like I can play a lot of games without introducing weird or awkward techniques into my game. Did I wish I could do multi-ball for another 2 years or so? Yeah, I think so. Unfortunately my coach moved back to Peru and can not/do not want to pay the other resident coach $20/hr for lessons. My old coach was great in the fact that he loved TT and he would only charge $15/lesson..and lessons often lasted 2-4 hours. We did nothing but multi-ball and footwork drills. I was absolutely horrible when it came to playing games but in the last 6 months I've done nothing but played games. now I'm able to execute what I learned in multi-ball in real games and it's an amazing feeling. Sure I might be a similar rating without all that training but I feel like I would reach a rating plateu much faster. I think I'll probably make it to 1800-1900 before the long, slow crawl to 2000. |
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gatorling
Super Member Joined: 06/09/2010 Location: Florida, USA Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Looking at your latest post I think for beginners simple multi-ball is best. Nothing fancy.
The fancy patterns are great when you're a very advanced player and want to start incorporating good patterns into your play (or they can be used to target patterns that are effective aginst you and improve you in that regard). But for under 2000, simple multi-ball is best. The most complicated multi-ball I did was short flick, jump back FH from FH side, FH from middle, BH from BH side, step around FH then cross step to get a wide FH. Most of the time it was just FH from FH side, FH from middle, BH from BH side. |
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