Please Critique

JimT wrote: APW46 wrote: People would still know their rating, right? I mean they are calculated so that the federation can compile the 500 list - so why not make them all public?

 No, the majority of players don't have a rating because Local league matches are not rating events, they are entities, seperate from national competition. For example in my town (Lincoln) there are three divisions of 8 teams, each team comprising of 3 or more players (only 3 can play at a time in a match) out of this whole collection of players who compete against each other weekly, I am the only player with a national rating, because I am the only player who plays in national events.

JimT wrote: I meant of course the national ratings. Despite the fact that only 500 players are published, all the ratings must be calculated. Are they made public?

benfb wrote: In chess, virtually all players world wide have ratings and while they still have some problems, over all the system works pretty well.  I don't the problem in American table tennis is that we have ratings, it's just that some of us are idiots no matter what.

Imho USATT rating system suffers from being excessively sensitive to a player's match-to-match performance... That said, I feel the main problem of US players not really wanting to risk his/her rating is the lack of fun/interesting tournaments.  In my area (SoCal) there are always plenty of USATT sanctioned tourneys, but participation is still limited to the usual number of players, no matter what amount of prize money we offer.  In contrast, our weekly round robins have been hugely popular with tournament and non-tournament players alike.  The main difference is the fun factor:  Each participant at our weekly round robins is usually seeded into an initial group of 8 to 10 players, with up to four players advancing to single elimination playoffs thereafter.  So for just one entry fee, everybody plays until no one can move anymore... All these action in less than five hours in one single day for eight bucks... 

In comparison, here's what happens at a typical USATT sanctioned tourney here in LA area: 
-Enter three to four events for $75 to $125 many days in advance. 
-Show up early. 
-Fight for an empty table to warm-up, while looking for a worthwhile partner to do so at the same time. 
-Play in a "round-robin" of 3 (4 if you are lucky) for your first event.  You could not beat the top seed in your group so you are out.
-Wait for another event that will start in two hours.
-Play in another mini round robin with stiff arm and cold legs.
-Beat the two poor souls in your group easily since you are the top seed.
-Wait for another hour for your next round.
-Beat your opponent in the quarters, so now you wait for the semis.
-45 minutes later your name is called... Now you must play on the corner table because all "best" tables are taken by Open round robin groups.
-You could not see the ball well so you lose a deuce-in-the-fifth nailbiter.

-Repeat next day.

-You get home by 8:30pm on Sunday and your wife is not all that happy that you just spent two days chasing little orange balls instead of with her and junior...

Imago wrote: ttguy wrote: 1900? You are still far to reach this goal. Here is the video for the competition for 1300 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY3A_CKckOM � Anthony Chu (the winner) is ranked around 1000 now. Wow, he is better than the guy with the alleged 1900 rating.This USATT ratings are foggy mystery to me. I always suspected that utter pragmatism leads to fancy metaphysics.

Kids are under rated in general because all children start off rated like 100 and adults around 1000 and kids play mainly against other kids so they stay very lowly rated sometimes. So those kids might be much higher than their ratings.

Also though, children aren't putting near the amount of speed or spin of an adult opponent, they can't go far from the table to counter loop and their reach is limited. So while their form near the table may look very nice and pretty, they are very one dimensional. They do a couple things very nicely, but ultimately, an untrained adult player would have faster, spinier loops than trained children. Their little counter hit style isn't effective against adults.

Form isn't everything, there are 2200 level players who have what looks like horrible form and unorthodox playing styles and terrible footwork and there are 1300 rated players who look like Wang Liqin out there but can't land their shots and have a poor all around game.

roundrobin wrote: Imho USATT rating system suffers from being excessively sensitive to a player's match-to-match performance... That said, I feel the main problem of US players not really wanting to risk his/her rating is the lack of fun/interesting tournaments.  In my area (SoCal) there are always plenty of USATT sanctioned tourneys, but participation is still limited to the usual number of players, no matter what amount of prize money we offer.  In contrast, our weekly round robins have been hugely popular with tournament and non-tournament players alike.  The main difference is the fun factor:  Each participant at our weekly round robins is usually seeded into an initial group of 8 to 10 players, with up to four players advancing to single elimination playoffs thereafter.  So for just one entry fee, everybody plays until no one can move anymore... All these action in less than five hours in one single day for eight bucks...  In comparison, here's what happens at a typical USATT sanctioned tourney here in LA area:  -Enter three to four events for $75 to $125 many days in advance.  -Show up early.  -Fight for an empty table to warm-up, while looking for a worthwhile partner at the same time.  -Play in a "round-robin" of 3 (4 if you are lucky) for your first event.  You could not beat the top seed in your group so you are out. -Wait for another event that will start in two hours. -Play in another mini round robin with stiff arm and cold legs. -Beat the two poor souls in your group easily since you are the top seed. -Wait for another hour for your next round. -Beat your opponent in the quarters, so now you wait for the semis. -45 minutes later your name is called... Now you must play on the corner table because all "best" tables are taken by Open round robin groups. -You could not see the ball well so you lose a deuce-in-the-fifth nailbiter. -Repeat next day. -You get home by 8:30pm on Sunday and your wife is not all that happy that you just spent two days chasing little orange balls instead of with her and junior...

APW46 wrote: Its just that in every single conversation involving American players/members the first thing asked is 'what is your rating' or 'Im not rated but everyone tells me I would be 1600' its as if the ratings have replaced reality.

BTW, I actually really enjoyed reading this thread. Got a good laugh. A little trash talking never hurt anyone. Its not any worse than all the cho'ing and ineffectual handshakes in TT.

Anyone who posts a vid of themselves on a forum has balls of steel.

I find it very difficult to judge someone's level just by watching them on vid or otherwise. I've learned to assume that anyone can surprise you, so never underestimate a player. Too many times I've lost to a player I thought I would destroy. If I'd had more respect from the start I probably would have won.

APW46 wrote: Its just that in every single conversation involving American players/members the first thing asked is 'what is your rating' or 'Im not rated but everyone tells me I would be 1600' its as if the ratings have replaced reality.

hehe, I think when someone asks what a person's rating is on a forum after watching a vid, etc, its probably just to get some perspective. Its really hard to judge how good a player is just by watching them. Knowing a rating helps a little bit.

But I have to admit I find it annoying when I show up to an out-of-town club, and the first thing a person asks--before asking what my name is--is what my rating is.

figgie,

Sounds like an winning formula that can work anywhere then...

I will try my best to implement this format for a future USATT-sanctioned tournament at our club...

The whole USATT rating system is so dump. I know that some of people even default the game to avoid losing points. Some coaches even intentionally give one or two game to students to raise their points. Some people even go to low-rating event to easily get points.

BarnabasG wrote: 1st u spelled my name wrong, 2nd u rnt even good enough to meet me so dnt talk to me about cleaning ur worthless floors.� all u do is talk trash about a place that prolly doesnt even exist. "my courts" LMAO, u mean ur basement with ur cardboard table. tell me your actual name or post a vid then i can actually see how good you r unless you r scared.

No.

There is no such thing as 'being good enough to meet you'. You are a low 1800's USATT (yes, you're not 1900). Even if you were 1900 by USATT standards that is not impressive at all, and furthermore yours is by all accounts inflated.

You aren't a professional player, but just a 19 year old Mexican-American with basement technique, no footwork, sh*tty service and so on. But I'm sure you will be okay because you have your little friend there (the one from the video) to tell you 'not to worry' when people call you out for being so trashy. He might have had 0.7 posts per day, but the fact you are such a little bitch is enough of a reason for anyone to come out of lurking to call you out.

Maybe you can post us a video of how good YOU are. Right now you can't talk a big game when we have a video that is in every regard contrary to what you seem to perceive yourself as.

bull_harrier wrote: Ok this thread was about critiquing someone's game, this incessant back and forth trash talk is getting a little old. Settle it through pm and quit hijacking the thread.�

Ha ha ha ,,,

Well it would be good to see both, the robot is consistent and you can better your form and consistency with it. But drilling with a human or playing a game will make you illustrate the diversity of play by incorporating footwork and strategy along with your strokes.

bull_harrier wrote: Ok this thread was about critiquing someone's game, this incessant back and forth trash talk is getting a little old. Settle it through pm and quit hijacking the thread.�

So you don't know how to respect my privacy, huh? You're about to cross some f**king lines mate! Mr. Gonsalty can't just come in here guns blazing talking big when he is in fact a fish mongler's wife! Learn your place Bull_Harrier.

You're just another new kid on the block to me, and I'm not afraid of taking you down like the rest of 'em. If you want to have a chat with me, we can do it here like real men.

Also, no.