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Topic ClosedPushblocker vs. Cho Yoon Je (KOR)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:58am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

It was interesting watching the different reactions from each of you during the match.  
He was quite reserved and cocky.
You on the other hand did a fist pump and/or a yell after every point you won.
You treated it like a championship match and he treated it like any other match.

All that being said, you play a very solid, albeit unorthodox, game and it works quite well against a ton of players.  It would work against me as I'm not consistent enough.

I think if you worked in an occasional forehand you would do even better against players of this caliber.  As you said the way these guys beat you is by slowing down the game.  Your opponent didn't seem worried about leaving a ball too high because you showed that you would continue to push instead of trying to finish the point.   If you could reliably forehand smash one of those high balls, they would have to work a little harder to keep the ball down thus making it a little more likely that they'll make a mistake.

 
 
You are 100% right about using my forehand.. I need to work on that but the problem is that at the clubs that I play, we only play matches and no time to drill..
I usually do extremely well against very powerful players and much worse against control, slow looping players.. My best wins were all over power-loopers and my worst losses to players of slower offensive styles or other unusual styles.  If I would only play against power-loopers, I would probably be rated well into the 2300's but unfortunately, only a small part of my opponents play the real power game..
My worst loss at the Teams was against a slow looping player from Colorado (Wallace Liu) who pushed and slow looped for the entire match to beat me 15:13 in game 5...
Looked at his results and he also beat another top long pips blocker a couple years ago.. (Robert Shahnazari), so he knows exactly what to do atainst that style.. He said that they have tons of long pips blockers at his club and he plays against that style all the time..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/02/2010 at 10:59am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.
I'm pretty happy with my combo.. I make mistakes as I try to push very hard and sometimes I miss the table. Against players of that level, I need to be aggressive with my pips or otherwise they'll kill me..

I write this because it's not easy to use Firewall+ and GDT.
The big balsa ply of the Firewall+ catapult too much with the GDT.
So sometimes the ball fly over the table.

You should try a blade more "hard" and without balsa.
Carbon blade is very efficient with GDT because you keep a low trajectory ;)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Derf59 Derf59 wrote:

Pushblocker, I think you should change your blade (Firewall+) to an other (TSP Toccata Def ou Dr Neubauer Bulldog). You make a lot of mistakes due to this combo.
I'm pretty happy with my combo.. I make mistakes as I try to push very hard and sometimes I miss the table. Against players of that level, I need to be aggressive with my pips or otherwise they'll kill me..

I write this because it's not easy to use Firewall+ and GDT.
The big balsa ply of the Firewall+ catapult too much with the GDT.
So sometimes the ball fly over the table.

You should try a blade more "hard" and without balsa.
Carbon blade is very efficient with GDT because you keep a low trajectory ;)


 
My DTecs is slower as I removed the glue sheet.. Without the tension on the rubber, the rubber is only half the speed.. I pushed long many times because I was pushing too hard. I personally don't like blades that feel "Hard" and are heavy. I'm not comfortable with any blades over 85 grams.. I prefer blades that weight less than 70 grams. The trajectory on the DTecS with the Firewall plus is fairly low.. Had no problems with that.. I actually have another sheet of DTecS on the same blade with even lower trajectory. However, I tend to put a lot of shots into the net with it..  The only difference between those 2 sheets of DTecS is that one of them had the sponge removed and one of them had the glue sheet removed.. I like the one with removed glue sheet better. I will check the Dr. Neubauer Bulldog to see if it's something that I can play with and I'll let you know!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:07am
Unless your club matches affect your rating or are against other clubs, you can work on your forehand during the match.  The worst thing that happens is that you lose.  Which is more important:  winning a meaningless match in the club or working to make yourself better?

One day at my club I used only 1 serve because I wanted to work on it and the response to that specific service return.  I lost more matches than usual that day, but I like to think it helped my game in the long run.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:18am
You've probably been asked this before Pushblocker, but how does your style match up against good short pips players? I may be mistaken but your game thrives off inverted players who may not have the discipline to consistently execute again and again, do short pips give you more trouble?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:21am
Nice match, I liked it. Pretty good scores against the Korean. Your teammates are quite hilarious, maybe they distracted you in the end. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 11:22am
To add to ztec's question, what happens when you play another long pips blocker?  I'd imagine it would be a very boring match to watch.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:11pm
Maybe it's just me but you sound very arrogant... :( And be proud of playing close sets against this guy then from his body language is very clear that he was just fooling around... 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Unless your club matches affect your rating or are against other clubs, you can work on your forehand during the match.  The worst thing that happens is that you lose.  Which is more important:  winning a meaningless match in the club or working to make yourself better?

One day at my club I used only 1 serve because I wanted to work on it and the response to that specific service return.  I lost more matches than usual that day, but I like to think it helped my game in the long run.
Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by ztec ztec wrote:

You've probably been asked this before Pushblocker, but how does your style match up against good short pips players? I may be mistaken but your game thrives off inverted players who may not have the discipline to consistently execute again and again, do short pips give you more trouble?


 
I used to have a problem against it.. Some of my best wins are against short pips. Beat Thomas Yu, Thor Truelson and several other short pips players lately. In the final of Div 5, I played a short pips hitter rated in the 2000's (and might even get adjusted as he had a GREAT tournament) and beat him 3:0.  The key against short pips is NOT to give the opponent short and high balls.. I try to push low and deep and it seems to work great!


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/02/2010 at 12:21pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Nice match, I liked it. Pretty good scores against the Korean. Your teammates are quite hilarious, maybe they distracted you in the end. 
We had a lot of fun against the A-Team.. We were joking around as we really didn't take the match seriousely as we knew that we will very likely lose 5:0, so we just had fun. I did NOT expect to get that many points off the guy..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

To add to ztec's question, what happens when you play another long pips blocker?  I'd imagine it would be a very boring match to watch.
 
I do EXTREMELY well against other long pips blockers as all I'm doing is to give them dead balls into their pips and try to outlast them and wait for their mistake.. I usually outlast them as they lose their patience and attack and miss..
 
My recent results against long pips blockers (all at the club)..
 
Played Robert Shahnazari 3 times at his club (Grace Lin) this year  in California and beat him: 3:0, 3:1 and 3:2
Played Duc Loi (2214 rated long pips blocker) at his club (LATTA) this year in California and beat him 3:0
 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/02/2010 at 12:28pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.

That's why the club I'm at has a rule that you play 2 matches win or lose (except if it's the 1st match for both players in which case winner stays on).  It spreads out the table time and gives you more variety in opponents.  Using this method, everyone has a chance to improve their game because they don't have to worry about their playing time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Well, the problem at the club is that you have to get back in line when you lose but you stay on the table if you win.. Usually, there is only one table on which the good players play and if I'll lose, I'll have to wait for 30 minutes to play again.. If I win, I get to play tons of matches.. I usually spend 2 - 3 hours at the club.. I recently won almost all my matches and get a actual playing time of 2- 3 hours.. IF I lose, I might get about 20 minutes of playing time..  We usually have 4+ players waiting on the table with the good players.

That's why the club I'm at has a rule that you play 2 matches win or lose (except if it's the 1st match for both players in which case winner stays on).  It spreads out the table time and gives you more variety in opponents.  Using this method, everyone has a chance to improve their game because they don't have to worry about their playing time.
Unfortunately, we don't have the rules except for the tables with the weaker players.. At the Tampa Club, the front 3 tables (where the good players usually play) are winner stays and the rear 3 tables are 2 wins max... However, there usually aren't too many quality opponents.. I hardly lose any matches at the club at the tables with the good players, so playing with the weaker players would be boring.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:05pm
Overall great match Oliver.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:24pm
Nice game Pushblocker, thanks for the vid.
1. You seem tense and trying too hard, that is why you made a lot of mistakes. You even missed a few serves, which is vital, especially when the games are tight like the 2nd set. Win one and you will wipe that cocky smile from his face.. Evil Smile
And you misread quite a few serves there because you over eager to return the ball as soon as you can and not try to read the spin he put on his serves.
2. You need a plan B, when you plan A does not work. The plan B should be occasional FH that can make your opponents worry. Playing with pips will get you a lot of attackable ball, but with your style that take the ball really early sometimes it's hard to switch your play to FH, because of your standing position (mostly your right leg is in front). Maybe you can work on a few attackable serves to surprise your opponent, some floats or side top serve will be useful. Another way is to give a ball to one side than quick ball to the other side (one to the short FH, then a quick one deep to the BH), then step around to hit a FH.

I think you might beat me, that will depends on how I can adapt to your quick blocks. but most probably I will score more than five.. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Nice game Pushblocker, thanks for the vid.
1. You seem tense and trying too hard, that is why you made a lot of mistakes. You even missed a few serves, which is vital, especially when the games are tight like the 2nd set. Win one and you will wipe that cocky smile from his face.. Evil Smile
And you misread quite a few serves there because you over eager to return the ball as soon as you can and not try to read the spin he put on his serves.
2. You need a plan B, when you plan A does not work. The plan B should be occasional FH that can make your opponents worry. Playing with pips will get you a lot of attackable ball, but with your style that take the ball really early sometimes it's hard to switch your play to FH, because of your standing position (mostly your right leg is in front). Maybe you can work on a few attackable serves to surprise your opponent, some floats or side top serve will be useful. Another way is to give a ball to one side than quick ball to the other side (one to the short FH, then a quick one deep to the BH), then step around to hit a FH.

I think you might beat me, that will depends on how I can adapt to your quick blocks. but most probably I will score more than five.. LOL
The higher the level of player that I'm up against, the more risky I have to play. If I give him a slower push or block, he'd kill it. I missed too many serves as I misread them. He had lots of sidespin on some of them. Sometimes he'd serve dead and I'd block long. My positioning is the reason why my blocks are so effective as I'm lined up perfectly for those blocks. To play forehand, I have to turn 180 degrees which is difficult, especially when you have to do it quickly.. I do prefer to attack from the backhand by twiddling to inverted. I usually don't make this amount of unforced errors but I did have to keep my pushes long, low and deep to keep him in check..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:40pm
Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

It might look like Cho was not trying, but I think he was playing a perfect game.  It may not show on the video, but in reality it is very hard to play against player like Pushblocker, to win you must consistently keeps the pressure on, and that is hard.  The moment you smelled blood, and went for a kill, it might be your own blood that you smelled Smile.  Notice that Pushblocker can block the ball back at almost the same constant speed, regardless of how fast or slow it was thrown at him, this break up the tempo of the attacker, and is very hard to deal with.

You got it perfect. Cho was playing very intensely. He had to keep himself very relaxed in order to fight his natural inclination to get into playing a more attacking game. 

This is what Oliver wanted:

Pushblocker said "I usually do extremely well against very powerful players and much worse against control, slow looping players.. My best wins were all over power-loopers and my worst losses to players of slower offensive styles or other unusual styles."  

It's a good lesson in how to play LP blockers. Cho looks very young and it's typical of the tactics that good juniors/young players of that standard use against 'pushblockers'.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:01pm
BTW, Oliver, was anyone in your team from the Caribbean? I think I detected a bit of an accent.

Edited by Tinykin_2 - 12/02/2010 at 2:02pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:

BTW, Oliver, was anyone in your team from the Caribbean? I think I detected a bit of an accent.
 
My teammate Errol Lattiosh is of Jamaican heritage!!  He has been in Florida for about 10 years..
It was the 2nd time that we played together on a Team.. In 2001 we made it to Division 3 Final where we lost..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/02/2010 at 2:11pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:25pm
I figured so when I heard the 'Yah, Man!" at the start.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:28pm
Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Carbon TT Carbon TT wrote:

Wow, can I have that 10 minutes of my life back please?


No, but you could've stopped sooner once you realized you were wasting precious internet time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:46pm
The worst loss that I"ve ever had was against a well coached player from the Domincan Republic. The guy was only mid 2400's rated but he made me look like a abolute beginner. His coach is a very strong long pips player (Carlos Sosa who is still in the 2400's in his 50's).
That guy (Juan Antonio Vila Jr.) made it look like a match between master and student.. He would slow loop with high arch deep into my backhand and kill my return into the forehand and also the other way around. He repeated it over and over again.. He would score at will and never before have I been that helpless in a match. His placement and use of the entire table was PHENOMENAL!! Luckily, most players can't place the ball as well as he does.. Otherwise, I'd be in trouble..


Edited by Pushblocker - 12/02/2010 at 2:48pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by cls2222 cls2222 wrote:

Playing power against a LP blocker requires one shot kills with great placement, which is only if you want to play power. If the Korean would of tried to attack everything, he would have a lot of trouble if the ball came back to him with reversed spin right away. It looks like he is not trying, but playing power is not what you do against LP players, especially since they won't try to kill a shot that you may place long or high every time. I know 1900 level "pushblockers" who beat 2200 rated juniors just because they put the ball back on the table and wait for the junior to try to kill it.

I think they just have to play smarter, if you make strong fast loop, and he chop it back, then your next shot have to be strong, but slow topspin, more upward then forward movement, and after couple of safe top spin shots you try topspin killer again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 2:53pm
I played a medium pips twiddler tuesday night. Didnt twiddle a lot but enough to make sure u watch his bat.

I really hate pips players but i never underestimate them. thats when u are setting urself up for failure. My opponent made me look sh*t. someone watching the game had no idea he was a pips player. They commented to me after how they were wondering why i looked scared to hit the ball or just confused like i was unsure of my shots. When i explained how the pips worked they realised lol. then they watched their daughter play him and get beaten easily.
I just about won 11-8 in the 5th set

He was just able to block things so easily with his bh and could loop the ball with the other rubber if he needed too. I did get frustrated but i had to keep myself together otherwise i would surely have lost.

Believe me guys. Dont underestimate a played like pushblocker. you will be very shocked at how good he is when u play him. or should i say how BAD you are at playing against that style
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:02pm
There are actually several players on this board who have played me.Hope that they might chime in!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:04pm
 What a great game by Cho Yoon Je! People who say that he is not even trying  don't realise how hard it is to play against players like Mader.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2010 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
I did lose to William Lin but he beats me attacking with his short pips, twiddling on his backhand.


Is this our own roundrobin? He must be a skilled attacker. Viva la short-pips.Clap

I never underestimate long-pips players.
My fundamentals are sufficiently lacking as to severely lessen my chances against them.
This refers to sub 2000 guys.
How would I fare against you?
I might get 4 points off you!Embarrassed


Edited by Heimdallalso - 12/02/2010 at 3:19pm
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