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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 10:25am
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 

Yes!  Big backswings with poor timing end up leading to taps - so why tap with a big backswing when you can tap with a small backswing and make good contact and more power with less energy?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 11:06am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 
Please don´t be intellectually dishonest. You know what it means.
Actually, that tip doesn't make sense to me. Nextlevel, mentioned he found it useful after 3 years - maybe it will make sense to me at a later time. Right now it makes no sense to me, unless he wants you to play a blocking game and not generating any of your own power. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 11:10am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 
Yes!  Big backswings with poor timing end up leading to taps - so why tap with a big backswing when you can tap with a small backswing and make good contact and more power with less energy?
Ok, I agree with poor timing you'll end up with poor shots. However, if you want to play the game properly you really need to swing using power from your legs and core muscles. So I would disagree with this tip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 11:28am
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 
Yes!  Big backswings with poor timing end up leading to taps - so why tap with a big backswing when you can tap with a small backswing and make good contact and more power with less energy?
Ok, I agree with poor timing you'll end up with poor shots. However, if you want to play the game properly you really need to swing using power from your legs and core muscles. So I would disagree with this tip.

I think what the coach was saying is to focus more on contact.  Power is useless unless you can make the right contact.  So start by learning to contact the ball correctly before you start trying to add power.  If you don't contact the ball correctly, adding power is likely going to cause problem.  I don't think he was suggesting to just tap the ball.
If you don't get a feel for the right contact first, then when you are swinging with your legs and hips you won't have instant feedback on whether you hit the ball correctly which makes adjustments difficult.
I think this is more important for beginners and if I had to guess was suggested because the player was hitting the ball hard but missing A LOT.  There are a few players at my club that just hit the ball harder (if it comes back, even harder) and their consistency suffers.  Gain consistency first (through good contact) before adding power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 11:50am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

I think what the coach was saying is to focus more on contact.  Power is useless unless you can make the right contact.  So start by learning to contact the ball correctly before you start trying to add power.  If you don't contact the ball correctly, adding power is likely going to cause problem.  I don't think he was suggesting to just tap the ball.
If you don't get a feel for the right contact first, then when you are swinging with your legs and hips you won't have instant feedback on whether you hit the ball correctly which makes adjustments difficult.
I think this is more important for beginners and if I had to guess was suggested because the player was hitting the ball hard but missing A LOT.  There are a few players at my club that just hit the ball harder (if it comes back, even harder) and their consistency suffers.  Gain consistency first (through good contact) before adding power.
Someone understood! Thanks for your words. I don´t have patient enough to go word for word as you did. 
I just thought it wouldn´t take much to understand a tip like that...
Just TAP the ball? Please... 


Edited by TT newbie - 10/01/2014 at 11:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 
Please don´t be intellectually dishonest. You know what it means.
Actually, that tip doesn't make sense to me. Nextlevel, mentioned he found it useful after 3 years - maybe it will make sense to me at a later time. Right now it makes no sense to me, unless he wants you to play a blocking game and not generating any of your own power. 
Man, now I have doubts if you are saying it on purpose or if you are really limited on your interpretation. 
When my coach said it of course he didn´t mean to stand still. There is no table tennis if you don´t move. Problem was I spent much energy when hitting the ball and it was leading to nowhere but poor control, not to mention tendinitis.
So he said I should concentrate my energy on the impact because the right contact with less force will make a faster and better shot than a powerful move with wrong contact or wrong timing.
Does it make sense to you now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jrscatman jrscatman wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

My coach once said: "The ball is very light, so why the hell you´re spending this amount of energy of arms, shoulder and legs? Focus on the contact of racket against the ball, this is important."
So just tap the ball back and forth? 
Yes!  Big backswings with poor timing end up leading to taps - so why tap with a big backswing when you can tap with a small backswing and make good contact and more power with less energy?
Ok, I agree with poor timing you'll end up with poor shots. However, if you want to play the game properly you really need to swing using power from your legs and core muscles. So I would disagree with this tip.
Hookumsnivy explained it, but in any case, we can agree to disagree.  A hitter doesn't always generate power from the legs and core muscles.  A hitter mostly generates power by timing the ball properly - taking it at the highest point and going through it.  Even a looper - most of the pros have done significant muscle building and working out so that their strokes can be relatively short and time the ball and still generate loads of power.  Those of us who haven't done that muscle building try to do what we think is emulating the pros (hitting the ball hard) when we should be focusing on timing the ball properly and then trying to hit the ball hard.  Many semi-pros/pros who learned the game in childhood never appreciate this because they didn't have to go through the pain of getting better as adults after having no game as children.  They put in lots of hours around higher level players and learned this by osmosis.
 
It's one thing to play the game how higher level players play it if you were taught how to as a child, but it's another to understand why they are telling you this and whether it helps you given your limitations as a player.   When you focus on contact, you can see what your racket angle is.  You will see that you can hit the ball hard with shorter swings and more open racket angles.  IT's especially important when playing players who play more slowly. You can generate all the power you want, but if you mistime the ball, it doesn't matter.  I tap the ball with far more power than many people who loop the ball with their bodies because when they do so, they graze the ball, while I smack it.
 
Another example - try serving with a high toss serve.  You will find that very often, you can get more spin than you expect by simply letting the ball drop on your paddle and doing a short relaxed motion.  But if you try to use a faster motion, you end up mistiming the ball and getting less spin and poor control.  Power isn't everything in this sport, even if you play it "properly".
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 12:30pm
I had no idea that tip was so complicated.  I thought all it meant was not to tense all your muscles like you are doing a bench press when all you want is to swing a 180 gram / 6 ounce paddle fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 12:44pm
Actually, let me withdraw my objection to the tip. I guess we should all practice what works for us. I am a firm believer in generating the swing the legs and body. So when I first read the tip, it occurred to me, if you focus on contact first - people will tend to hit using just the arm - in my opinion this not a good thing to do. However, as Nextlevel pointed out on numerous occasions - he has mobility issues due to bad knees - so that might not be possible to do.  TT newbie also had specific issues and his/her coach was able to help with this tip. So while I may not agree with it, doesn't mean it might not work for others.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 1:58pm

My knee issues have nothing to do with the fact that the most important aspect of a stroke from an input perspective is the quality of contact made with the ball. 

I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

My knee issues have nothing to do with the fact that the most important aspect of a stroke from an input perspective is the quality of contact made with the ball. 


This is especially true of serving.  If you don't make the right contact, the serve will suffer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

My knee issues have nothing to do with the fact that the most important aspect of a stroke from an input perspective is the quality of contact made with the ball. 


This is especially true of serving.  If you don't make the right contact, the serve will suffer.
Which is why I was surprised when you said it was for beginners.  I wrote a post on this point and how serving practice helped me learn it.  It helps you move the ball around, misdirect your opponent.. anyways, the objection has been given up - back to more coach's tips.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 2:26pm
"Of course he'll look good when you loop the ball straight into his paddle."
"Stop looping into his forehand - if you want to go there, at least go wide!"
"You aren't going to drive the ball past him if you play 10 feet off the table."
"Serve short" - "But he's attacking my short serves." - "Serve shorter!"
"If you want to get better quickly, work on your backhand.  Why?  Because no one out there works on their backhands."
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2014 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by JKC JKC wrote:

"Have you thought of trying another sport?"

(not said to me, but I heard it said to another player)

Haha that's a good one! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 9:06pm
One advice that I really like is "Play because it's fun and not for the results". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheondo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2014 at 12:31am
Keep your racket up at all times. I didn't realize dropping the racket was such a key to me losing so many points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2014 at 3:51am
Originally posted by cheondo cheondo wrote:

Keep your racket up at all times. I didn't realize dropping the racket was such a key to me losing so many points.

I also had this problem for a couple of years ago, I learned to keep the racket up after a lot of multi ball sessions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W0LovePP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2014 at 11:51am
Originally posted by cheondo cheondo wrote:

Keep your racket up at all times. I didn't realize dropping the racket was such a key to me losing so many points.
 
Please elaborate on "keeping it up". Does "up" mean that the racket is vertical, or to keep the whole racket above the table, not beneath the table.
 
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2014 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by W0LovePP W0LovePP wrote:

Originally posted by cheondo cheondo wrote:

Keep your racket up at all times. I didn't realize dropping the racket was such a key to me losing so many points.

 
Please elaborate on "keeping it up". Does "up" mean that the racket is vertical, or to keep the whole racket above the table, not beneath the table.
 
Thanks.


Pretty sure that means above the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2014 at 1:02pm
I also think you need to return to tip up ready position between strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrscatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 12:28am
Originally posted by cheondo cheondo wrote:

Keep your racket up at all times. I didn't realize dropping the racket was such a key to me losing so many points.
Very good suggestion, I drop my arms all the time. Did he give any tips on how to accomplish this? A tennis coach once told me mantra to to repeat - remember thinking wow what a great saying - no need to write it down - I'll remember it....Darn should've written it down!
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After hit the ball come back neutral position. do not expect the ball never return and your arm still at the salute position. you dont need a camera man to take photo on those shots!
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step back...
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Stand closer to the table :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 11:07am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)

Funny, I've been told multiple times that I'm too close to the table and I need to take a couple of steps back.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 11:30am
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)


Funny, I've been told multiple times that I'm too close to the table and I need to take a couple of steps back.  


Same here. The key is to develop a good block and to give yourself time to react to your opponent's shot with a quality shot, I think. I find that some opponents are too powerful or high arcing to take on at the table and taking a step back helps. But just going backwards reduces your power, widesns your angles and gives up time. I am tall so taking a step back has helped, but I don't power loop so I need to stay close to the table to pressure my opponent.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suds79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)

Think it just depends on style.

I play SP penhold and use a TPB. For this I would always say close to the table easily.

My training partner is a duel inverted two winged looper. For him obviously playing off to get into his type of points is key.


Generally I think playing off the table is for the young & athletic. If you can do it? Great. If you're not all that athletic, I think playing off the table just makes it easier for the opponent. Have to know where you are fitness wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by suds79 suds79 wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)

Think it just depends on style.

I play SP penhold and use a TPB. For this I would always say close to the table easily.

My training partner is a duel inverted two winged looper. For him obviously playing off to get into his type of points is key.


Generally I think playing off the table is for the young & athletic. If you can do it? Great. If you're not all that athletic, I think playing off the table just makes it easier for the opponent. Have to know where you are fitness wise.

There's a difference between playing off the table, and just being a few steps back.  For instance, I play cpen with rpb, but I'm always right up at the table almost like a SP penhold player w/ TPB.  That's too close, but 5-10 feet back would be too far (considering the extra baggage I carry).  If I just move back 2 feet, I'll have more time without giving up too large of an angle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2014 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by suds79 suds79 wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)

Think it just depends on style.

I play SP penhold and use a TPB. For this I would always say close to the table easily.

My training partner is a duel inverted two winged looper. For him obviously playing off to get into his type of points is key.


Generally I think playing off the table is for the young & athletic. If you can do it? Great. If you're not all that athletic, I think playing off the table just makes it easier for the opponent. Have to know where you are fitness wise.

There's a difference between playing off the table, and just being a few steps back.  For instance, I play cpen with rpb, but I'm always right up at the table almost like a SP penhold player w/ TPB.  That's too close, but 5-10 feet back would be too far (considering the extra baggage I carry).  If I just move back 2 feet, I'll have more time without giving up too large of an angle.

I should have put my "tip" in context, perhaps. I feel quite comfortable, for my level, to rally a couple of steps from the table. It gives me time to use big strokes, especially on FH, and play nice topspins, or fish and lob if needed, etc. However, every once in a while my opponent turns out to be a half-decent blocker, and I end up taking some blocked balls too late, resulting in weaker shots and loss of control of the rally. Hence the tip to stand/play "closer" to the table, not necessarily "immediately at the table".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2014 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Stand closer to the table :-)

Funny, I've been told multiple times that I'm too close to the table and I need to take a couple of steps back.  

Haha same here, I was always to close to the table when I was younger, didn't get the time I needed! 
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