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Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade

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malvin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2006 at 11:24am
This is my first post and I have been living and working in Japan for about 2 years now. I have joined a table tennis club and there are many good J-Pen players in my club. Many of the players in my club favor Kiso Hinoki J-pen rackets made by Kokutaku, Nittaku, and Darker. When I first joined the club I had never heard of Kokutaku, but as I started to try out some of their Kokutaku rackets I realized that the Kiso Hinoki quality and build was often better than those of Butterfly and other J-pen rackets. I found out from my table tennis coach who owns a Pro Table Tennis shop that the reason why Kokutaku rackets are often better in quality and build is because they have a good stock of high quality Kiso Hinoki wood that is between 230 to 250 years old and in the process of making their J-pen rackets they dry the Kiso Hinoki for 6 years as opposed to many other companies that only dry their Kiso Hinoki for 1 or sometimes 3 years. I have several Kokutaku rackets and I believe that they are very good and I would recommend people to try one if they want to. Sorry for the long post. :)
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
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aeoliah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 12:49am
And what are their comments on Darker blades ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 1:59am
Many people in my club really like their Darker blades due to the quality and price. I have a Darker Speed 90 and I think it is nice and worth the money as opposed to Butterfly's J-pens. Butterfly blades are sometimes a little on the heavy side due to the drying process which is often only 1 year because they want to mass produce their blades quickly. Overall Darker is great and actually from what I have seen and heard, more people in Japan prefer Darker, Kokutaku, and Nittaku Kiso Hinoki rackets as opposed to Butterfly's Kiso Hinoki rackets.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 5:21am
What do they prefer (percentage wise), Darker or Kokutaku ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 10:52am
I would say that it is about 50 50 in my club and when it is time to change blades, most people in my club are kind of brand loyal and try to get the same model again. But some of the older members of my club often say they like Kokutaku a little more because the blades are a bit lighter than some Darker blades and they don't mind paying 2000 or 3000 yen for a blade they will use for probably another 5 or 6 years. I hope this information helps.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 12:41pm
I think one of the cool things about playing and buying table tennis in Japan is actually going to the pro table tennis shops and picking out the racket, especially the J-pen you want. I think I am in a unique situation because my coach who is also a former champion of Japan has a close relationship with the president of Kokutaku. Every year he and the Kokutaku president get together and they negotiate a price and quantity of special Kokutaku Kiso Hinoki J-pens. My coach owns a pro table tennis shop called Hero Sports and every year Kokutaku makes 20 special J-pens called the Hero Special and it is actually much higher in quality and weighs less the average 10mm J-pen. I got mine from his shop and my J-pen is 10.15mm, but it is only 81 grams which is quite rare for such a think J-pen. Since I use to have a Butterfly Kim Taek, I think for the money and quality Kokutaku, Darker, and Nittaku are often better in quality and price than Butterlfy's J-pens.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 8:01pm
Wow ! You are very lucky to be in such favourable situation. May I have one more question ?
I would like very much to know which type of Carbon J-pen is popular in Japan (especially Darker or Kokutaku). Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 9:46pm
Actually from what I have seen Carbon J-pen's are not as popular as as 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades. But I have seen some people use the Butterfly Lendido, which is a Arylate Carbon racket. I have looked at many new table tennis cataloges and think their is a reemphasis on thicker 1 Ply Kiso Hinoki rackets now because the seems to be a shortage of really high quality Kiso Hinoki now. It is illegal to cut down a Kiso Hinoki tree that is 300 years old and older in Japan. The best Kiso Hinoki wood you can buy is now about 230 to 250 years old and Kokutaku currently has the best stock of this old Kiso Hinoki wood. I hope this information is helpful.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 9:59pm
I think Kokutaku's J-pen Laser Drive is quite good because it has a high quality Kiso Hinoki with fiberglass and carbon in the middle. I have the Kokutaku Laser Carbon shake hand which is the J-pen Laser Drive equivilant. I would honestly have to say I think the Laser Carbon shakehand has better control, more feel, lighter and is softer than the Butterfly's Timo Ball Spirit. I think Darker does not make carbon J-pen's because the tradition of their company is in making 1 ply Hinoki J-pens, but they do have carbon shake hand rackets. I hope this information helps.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2006 at 10:26pm
Has anyone tried that Darker Tanpan 1ply Hinoki shakehand blade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 12:13am
Thanks for your information Malvin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 5:52am
No problem aeoliah, please ask me more questions because I am very happy to answer them.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 8:33am
Haha, in that case I have two more questions: Can you ask your coach what is the difference between 9 mm and 10 mm single ply Hinoki J-pen blade in performance? I have already one blade 9 mm, is it worth it to buy another one with 10 mm thickness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 9:10am
Sorry Malvin, where can I get Kokutaku Hinoki 10 mm ? At iruiru there is only 9 mm thick.
If I can get Darker 10 mm weighing 81 gram, would you classify it as higher quality also, or do you still say Kokutaku is better ? That sums up to 4 questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 9:57am
I think quality of a Kiso Hinoki is merited from how straight the lines are are, how dense the lines are and how long it has been dried (weight). In my new Kokutaku catalogue it advertises a new 10mm Super Cho 1D100 model. The advertised price of this racket is 20,000 yen before tax, but I think iruiru gives you 20% discount on that so it would be like 16,000 yen. My coach just got his new Kokutaku goods in last week, so iruiru might not have recieved their new Kokutaku goods yet. About weight, it is often better to get a lighter Kiso Hinoki J-pen because your rubber might be heavy, but maybe not. The reason why older Kiso Hinoki is more expensive is because their is often higher grain density and the wood is often dried for a longer period of time, thus reducing the weight of the racket. I think a good way to maybe get a good 10mm Kokutaku or Darker racket is by emailing iruiru about the availiablity of the racket and if they get a batch of them, ask them to weigh them out and ask them to look for the one with the straightest lines. The most important thing is that all the lines are pointing in the same direction and personally I like my 10mm J-pens 85 grams or less. But actually finding a 10mm Kokutaku or Darker under 85 grams is pretty difficult because even in a batch of 10mm J-pens, the range can go from 78 to 108 grams. In th batch of Kokutaku Hero Special rackets their was a range from 79 to 97 grams. The reason I did not select the 78 gram one was because the lines were not as straight and pointing in the same direction as the one I got that is 81 grams. Overall 2 or 3 grams really does not make that big of a difference, but anything over 5 usually makes a difference. So in selecting a 10mm J-pen whether it is Kokutaku or Darker, try to find one that 1.) has really straight lines and the lines are densely packed together and 2.) try not to get one that is too heavy. I truthfully like Kokutaku J-pens a little more, but I also have a Darker Speed 90 and think that it is an excellent racket also. So depending on your budget for 10mm Kiso Hinoki J-pens, you can go with either Darker or Kokutaku. If you have any more questions please ask because I am more than happy to share what I know.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 10:10am
About whether to go with a 9mm or 10mm Kiso Hinoki racket, I think it really depends on your style of game. Both the 9mm and 10mm are great for looping if you have the technique down, but the 9mm usually provides more control for more technical shots and for easier net play as opposed to a 10mm Kiso Hinoki racket which is often more powerful, but control is sacrificed. If you play like Ryu Seung Min, then 10mm is the way to go, but if you play more like Chiang Peng Lung, then 9mm is the way to go. I talked to my coach today and asked him what table tennis companies get the best Kiso Hinoki and he said 1. Kokutaku, 2. Nittaku, 3. Darker, and 4. Butterfly. I also have a Nittaku Cho Takusen A racket which is 9mm and it is very very good and great for a control game, but enough power when needed. But another option to consider is a 9.5mm racket. You can ask iruiru to call Kokutaku and have them make you a custom Super Cho 1D100 Kiso Hinoki J-pen for you that is 9.5mm if you are willing to pay 20,000 yen for this racket. Please post more questions if you have any more and I will do my best to answer them.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2006 at 11:34pm
If 10 mm will have more speed but less control, then it is not for me because I am not that good. If I buy another good quality Kokutaku 9 mm, what do you think the difference will be compared to my Darker Speed 90 with thickness 9 mm?
Perhaps I will try to get one below 80 grams.
At iruiru there is only Super Cho Tokusen Bishu No.1D100 with thickness 9 mm, price Yen.9.600,- which is actually cheaper than Darker Speed 90 which costs Yen.10.400,- (9 mm thick). Is this the new type you are referring (maybe not because it is much cheaper)?
The more I ask, the more I am getting confused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2006 at 12:52am
The 10mm Super Cho Kiso Hinoki blade from Kokutaku is not availiable on iruiru yet. It is interesting because not all stores get or carry Kokutaku rackets. For example I went to a table tennis pro shop in Sendai yesterday and they did not carry any Kokutaku products. But between choosing between the Darker Speed 90 9mm and Kokutaku 9mm, I would ask iruiru to look for the straightness and density of the lines first, then weigh the rackets out. If you are looking into a 9mm, try to find one that is between 78 to 85 grams, otherwise it can get heavy when you put rubber on it. 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades really vary from blade to blade, so based on iruiru's inventory of Kokutaku and Darker blades, ask for a racket which has straight lines that are pointing up in the same direction and that the lines are densely packed together. I honestly think if you can spend a little extra money, get the 9mm blade that has the best straight line and weight ratio. But really you actually can not go wrong with either blade, so email iruiru what you want and ask if they have that or those rackets in stock. Please ask more questions because I like to help you out.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2006 at 2:01am
Maybe I should ask iruiru to contact Kokutaku for the Super Cho 1D100 Kiso Hinoki in 9 mm. Thank you for your fast reply and your patience with me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2006 at 5:07am
I think it usually takes about 1 week or 10 business days for a company to restock a certain product. I think if you want to get a quality 1 ply Kisp Hinoki racket, the process can be quite long and the questions can be many. I was a J-pen player for 12 years, but I switched to shakehand a few years ago. I still love playing with J-pen and I teach kids in my local table tennis club on Sunday nights. Over the years I learned many things about Kiso Hinoki rackets and I am very happy to share with you what I know.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2006 at 10:14pm
Hi Malvin
How about the quality of Juic 1 ply kisohinoki blade compare to Kokutaku or Darker? (Only Juic is available here in Thailand).
best regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2006 at 10:34pm
I am not sure about JUIC 1 ply Kiso Hinoki J-pens because I have never seen it in a store and I have only seen them in catalogues. I have seen the JUIC 1 ply shake hand and it is really heavy (about 95 to 105 grams) for the racket alone. This happens because JUIC only dries tries Kiso Hinoki 1 Plys for a short period of time. In comparison to Darker or Kokutaku, go with Kokutaku or Darker all the way because of they have better quality Kiso Hinoki.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2006 at 4:37am
I'm now using Juic Kisohinoki shakehand blade for about 4 weeks.My Juic weight about 88 gram. I love to play 1 ply blade because I would like to have one when I was teenager but I don't have enough money to buy it.In that time there were only 2 brand that had 1 ply blade , one was Nittaku and the other was YSP.But now Nittaku are not produce a 1 ply shakehand blade and YSP brand is no longer exist. When I decided to buy new blade I only find that Juic and Galaxy have 1 ply blade.Quite sad to know Kokutaku and Darker too late.
Now I'm interested in buying another carbon blade.In fact I plan to buy Bty Timo Boll Spirit but Malvin recommend Kokutaku Laser Carbon. Could you please write a minireview?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2006 at 5:41am
Hello Touch,

The Kokutaku Laser Carbon weighs between 78 to 82 grams (light), has outstanding control (even more than the Timo Boll Spirit), and has enough speed to hit winners. The head of the racket is smaller than most rackets. This racket is for players who like OFF rackets. This is not a OFF+ racket. The most surprising thing about this racket is the ball touch and good net play of this racket. It is great feel and all the people that own this racket, including me have nothing but good things to say about this racket. It has it all basically, but this is an underrated racket because it does not get the same marketing as the Bty TBS. Everyone I know who has compared this racket to TBS says this racket is superior in all categories and I agree with them completely. It is a little pricey at 8,000 yen at iruiru, but it is a fantastic racket. I hope this information helps you.
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote touch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2006 at 10:58pm
Thank you Malvin!
I've already ordered Laser Carbon from iruiru.com . I plan to use Mark Vxs and Stiga inova ultralight on it.
About 1 ply hinoki of Darker Tanpan and Juic , the picture (esp. on handle) are almost identical . I'm afraid that I'll have 2 identical blade if I buy Darker Tanpan in future.

The Juic picture - www.juic.co.jp/product/racket/kisohinoki.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:08pm
Malvin, Whats is different the BTY Super Senkoh-95 and Cypress? I decided to buying Darker 90.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:11pm
Good choice Adib, Darker is more comfortable to hold than Cypress (I have both).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:33pm

Thanks aeoliah, ever I have the KTS but I would try the Darker Speed 90 but what is different 10mm and 9mm?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote malvin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2006 at 5:41am
Hello Adib,

The difference between Cypress and Bty Senkoh 95 is that the Senkoh 95 is 9.5mm and the Kiso Hinoki is actually not that soft at all. The kiso hinoki quality for the Senkoh 95 is actally not that good, but definately not the worst I have seen. Bty Cypress is 9mm and the quality of the blade is much better than Senkoh 95. But for the money and quality go with Kokutaku, Nittaku, or Darker for 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades. I hope this information is helpful.

Malvin
Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited
FH: Bryce 2.1
BH: Bryce Hard 2.1

Nittaku Tremendous
FH: Xtend Max
BH: Xtend Max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:27am
Thanks Malvin, however my frenz have few question to before there get own blade. How much different hardness of Super Senkoh-95 between Cypress? I'm understand that Malaysia just 1 shops selling Kokutaku.
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