Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade

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   For malvin:
Sorry I asking you others question but I need know the Xiom blade. I never heard it before. So could you comment this 1-ply hinoki blade and where its come from. THANKS 

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Adib Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 02/27/2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 311	Post Options Post Reply Quote Adib Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:33am
	For malvin: Sorry I asking you others question but I need know the Xiom blade. I never heard it before. So could you comment this 1-ply hinoki blade and where its come from. THANKS

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Adib Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 02/27/2006 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 311	Post Options Post Reply Quote Adib Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:37am
	At the back of the blade:

ryno Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Member Joined: 12/12/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 785	Post Options Post Reply Quote ryno Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 8:41am
	I actually have a xiom jpen i just got it this week.The blade is one of the best i have tried.It have the rsm platinum that looks like the vulcan.The biggest difference i have noticed with my xiom blade is the control and feel.The only thing is they are kinda expensive but all the highest grade hinoki j pens are.My xiom plays kinda like my old kts with more control.I have some pics if you want me to email them to you just pm me.Oh also i don't think they come with the case anymore.I ordered mine directly from champion
	Red Label Kim Taek Soo (83g) Almana Sound Synergy Tech (max)

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:19am
	Yes I am in complete agreement with ryno. If you want a top grade 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blade, there is a price correlation with the quality of the blade. My Hero Special cost me 20,000 yen and it is the best J-pen I have ever tried. The power, feel, and control are unmatched even to other J-pens that are about 10,000 yen. The Xiom Ryu Seung Min Platnium is a top grade racket and therefore there is a high price tag with it. My Hero Special is actually better than my old KTS because it has equal power, it lighter, more feel, and definately more control.
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 9:28pm
	Malvin, how is Darker Speed 90 (in 9 or 10 mm) compared to KTS ?
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:15pm
	Sorry Malvin, I want to ask about your Kokutaku Laser Carbon (shake hand), how does it feel, soft, medium or hard ? Normally you get a "report" from the blade to your hand when you hit the ball, but this is very suppressed when the carbon is mixed with arylate (like Timo Boll Spirit for example). What is the situation with this Laser Carbon ?
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:38pm
	Hello aeoliah, The Darker Speed 90 in 9mm and 10mm is generally about the same in quality, but Darker Speed 90 is cheaper and more often than not, lighter. Both blades are good, but if it was me, I would go for the Darker Speed 90, but I have seen some really good KTSs but those are the ones that came out long ago from Butterfly and costed only 13,000 yen. The current offerings of the KTS are not of the same quality as the older models of KTS and I only know collectors who have this older model of KTS. But Darker Speed 90 is medium soft in my opinion and with good control and power. About the Kokutaku Laser Carbon. The Laser Carbon has more control and is lighter than the Bty Timo Boll Spirit because there is also fiberglass mixed in with the carbon, which gives the racket a better balance of stability and control than the Bty TBS. The Laser Carbon weighs between 78 to 82 grams and the average TBS is between 85 to 91 grams. Since there is carbon in the Laser Carbon, their is that "pink" sound that comes when hitting the ball on the racket. Both the Laser Carbon and TBS are medium soft, but the Laser Carbon is softer than the TBS. I get more feel from the Laser Carbon than with the TBS. Overall I think the Laser Carbon is much better than TBS, even though TBS is a good racket. I hope this information is helpful.
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

hip66 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 05/11/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote hip66 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:53pm
	Malvin, Great information. I am currently using a 27 year old 3 ply Hinoki Yakaka Leopard (total of about 5 years of total use, I took many years off) which weighs in around 100 grams. Some tt forums have reviewed this blade as super fast/ uncontrollable etc., I don't know b/c it's all I've used in my life with the exception of some brief time with 5 ply/ 5 ply carbon blades that I felt did not have the feel of my Hinoki Leopard and felt slower and less response. I see that the Leopard is still offered as "Super Leopard" after visiting Yasaka's website and Iruiru's website, both have different ratings for it (Yasaka- power 10 speed, Iruiru- allround) Anyway, here's my questions for you: - How long will a Hinoki blade last before "played out", or do they ever wear out? - Should I consider my Leopard played out? - Based on some responses from you and aeoliah on other topic strings, I am considering buying a new Darker Tanpan or a new Leopard from iruiru. How do they compare- 3 ply vs 1 ply Hinoki blades? I am probably the only person left in the world using a Leopard, from what I have seen posted! Your thoughts/ comparisons/ contrasts on both would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Matt

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/13/2006 at 11:42pm
	Hello hip66, I is strange that I often see many people say that a blade is uncontrollable and worthless because usually that player has not put in enough time into getting use to the blade, or they may have bad technique, or the blade does not fit their play style. I always say that with enough time, patience, and practice many blades can be good for you. So I think you assessment of your Yasaka Leopard is good and if you can control a fast blade, then that blade is for you. I do not think your Leopard is played out or most rackets will wear out unless you are a pro that practices 6 or 7 hours a day or your blade has warped or cracked, your blade is okay and in playable condition. My father played with his blade for 20 years and his blade is still in playable condition. About the 3 ply or 1 ply blade, many table tennis companies make only 1, 5, or 7 ply blades these days. I reccommend based on some of the blades Please tell me if you like all wood rackets or composite rackets and I and others on this forum will do our best to give you our opinions on blades we have hopefully used and their evaluations. I hope this information is helpful.
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 12:22am
	Hi Malvin, I am correct if I say that Kokutaku Laser Carbon is comparable to blades with arylate carbon from Butterfly like TBS, Iolite, Aspyte etc and cannot be compared with carbon blade like Schlager Carbon, Sardius and Gergely ? My understanding is arylate carbon has soft or medium feel, whilst carbon has hard feel.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 2:47am
	Hello aeoliah, You are correct. Blades which are classified as pure carbon rackets are Schlager Carbon, Sardius, and Gergely, all of which I think are quality blades. The arylate in AC blades give the blade a different and often a medium soft feeling because of the shock absorbtion quality of arylate. I personally like softer blades, but I have seen many good players us hard carbon blades and soft rubber which is a nice combination.
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 5:19am
	And where does the Kokutaku Laser Carbon belongs ? To the Arylate Carbon?
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 8:30am
	Hello aeoliah, If I had to categorize the Laser Carbon, it would be in the same class of Arylate Carbon rackets, due to shock absorbtion of arylate or in the Laser Carbon's case fiberglass. And all these racket have carbon in them, so I would say they belong in the same class of rackets. Malvin
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 10:17am
	Hi Malvin, I wonder if you can post a picture of a hinoki blade having lines that is not straight, because I want to know what is your definition by "straight" which could differ to mine, because I think all the single ply Hinoki that I have seen have straight lines.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 10:28am
	Hello aeoliah, I am sorry I actually do not have any pictures of Kiso Hinoki blades that are not straight. It is actually pretty easy to see because if you look at the face of your blade that the lines are swerving in either left or right then that is not straight. Truthfully most Butterlfy Kiso Hinoki blades except for the KTS do not have straight lines. And if you look on the top of your blade and some lines are pointing in different directions, then your lines are not straight. Most blades that see under 10,000 yen are usually not the best Kiso Hinoki because the lines are swerving and pointing in different directions or the growth lines are inconsistant and then are big and small gaps between the lines that indicate that the Kiso Hinoki wood did not grow evenly each year. Truthfully I do not believe Butterlfy has great Kiso Hinoki, but Kokutaku, Nittaku, and Darker have the best stock. If you compare these brands to any other Butterfly Kiso Hinoki racket that is not KTS, you will see what I mean. I hope this information is helpful. Malvin
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

hip66 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 05/11/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote hip66 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 12:50pm
	Malvin, As a starter for comparison of blades, what could I expect in the Darker Tanpan (1 ply) vs the Yasaka Leopard (3 ply)? Feel, weight, speed? Also, does anyone speed glue Hinoki 1 ply blades? Thanks

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 1:22pm
	Hello hip66, Most peole I know that play with 1 ply Hinoki blades speed glue like me. I am not too familiar with the Yasaka Leopard, so I am not sure if I can give an assessment of the blade because I have never seen one in person. I do play with a 1 ply Kiso Hinoki shakehand blade and it is 7mm. I speed glue and if the Darker Tanpan is anything like my blade then you are getting a very stable blade with excellent ball touch and feel. My blade has a good balance of power, ball control, and feel and it is also very light at 75 grams. But my blade was a custom order so I am not sure the weight of the Darker Tanpan because 1 ply Hinoki blades all differ in weight, feel, and power. I have been experimenting with Chinese rubber which is sometimes a little heavy, but can produce a lot of spin. I am not sure how thick the Darker Tanpan is so I think as long as the blade is not 10mm then you should probably expect a well balanced racket that is not an OFF+ blade, but more of a OFF- or OFF blade. I hope this information helps because I will never tell anyone something about a blade I have never tried. Malvin
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/14/2006 at 11:28pm
	Hi Malvin, sorry, one thing is still not clear to me. When you hit with your Laser Carbon, do you feel the "report" to your hand and is the sound more or less the same like you hit with your one ply Hinoki blade ? I am not very fond of the feel on arylate carbon from Butterfly because the feel when I hit the ball is very very light, and also the sound is very subdued.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05/15/2006 at 2:52am
	Hello aeoliah, The Laser Carbon has a the feel of an Arylate Carbon blade. The "pink" sound is there when the ball strikes the racket. The sound is not like hitting against an all wood, especially all Hinoki blade. If you are not fond of the arylate carbon feel then this is probably not a blade you are looking for. I think if you are more fond of the all wood racket, but don't want the AC feel, then it is probably better to stick with all wood blades. I hope this information is helpful. Malvin
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

stefanusj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 06/18/2006 Status: Offline Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote stefanusj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 4:21am
	Malvin, I would like to ask a few question about Darker Tanpan or other single ply Hinoki shakehands blade: 1. did it cause your hand "vibrate" when hit the ball. Right now I'm using Schlager Carbon, and it doesn't vibrate my hand. I like it. 2. in other posts, someone mention about the Darker tanpan speed that has 95% speed of Schlager Carbon. Is it really true? This is my first post, maybe you could help me, because i'm really interest in "kiso hinoki" blade...

superloop Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 06/15/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 81	Post Options Post Reply Quote superloop Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 6:14am
	Hello stefanusj...I am the one that said that the Darker Tanpan was 95% as fast as the Schlager Carbon. Like you, I read all of the posts about Kiso Hinoki and I wanted to see what it was all about. I just got my Darker Tanpan about a week ago. I have been using the Schlager Carbon for about 2 years and I love the speed but it can be tough to control at times. I have been trying to find a blade with better control but compared to the Schlager Carbon, they all seemed really slow. I was very disappointed in the Timo Boll Spirit, for example. Like the other blades I tried, I did not expect the Tanpan to be even close to the Schlager Carbon in terms of speed. The Schlager Carbon might be the fastest of any blade, but the Tanpan comes really close. The Hinoki feel is alot different than the Schlager's though. When you block or push, it has a very soft feel. But when you loop or smash, it really supplies the power. To me, the Tanpan feels slow on touch shots but fast on power shots. This is the exact combination that I was looking for. I don't think that the Hinoki vibrates more but it does provide more feedback for the soft touch shots. superloop

ryu seungminfan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 02/11/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 444	Post Options Post Reply Quote ryu seungminfan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 6:41am
	kokutaku is quite good. man i want to have a xiom blade
	blade:kokutaku super rubber:xiom omega 3 right hander nothing without labour

Shalashashka Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 05/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 171	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shalashashka Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 8:58am
	Is this considered to be good consistant grain, malvin?
	Extra Rorin.

malvin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Beginner Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 68	Post Options Post Reply Quote malvin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 9:54am
	Hello Shalashashka, From looking at the pics of your racket, it looks like a quality racket. I believe that Nittaku has a good reputation for making good 1 plu Kiso Hinoki blades and they have a good stock of Kiso Hinoki wood. The Rorin series rackets are suppose to be a little harder for more speed. I think the Nittaku Cho Takusen A is also a top grade Kiso Hinoki blade. But I think you have a good and quality blade there. Malvin
	Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max

Shalashashka Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 05/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 171	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shalashashka Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 5:20pm
	nice, thats what i wanted to hear thanks alot.
	Extra Rorin.

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 9:06pm
	Good, then everybody is happy. Malvin, have you ever tried single ply hinoki in C-pen ? How do you compare it with single ply hinoki J-pen ? I am considering to buy J-speed 90 (C-pen) because there is the possibility to get light blade around 70 - 75 grams, but the thickness is only 8,5 mm. Please comment.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

stefanusj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 06/18/2006 Status: Offline Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote stefanusj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:00pm
	Thanks Superloop for your prompt answer. Again, do you know any other brand that has good quality of "single ply kiso hinoki" blades? Because I have try to search for Darker blade in Indonesia, and didn't find one. I have already mailed iruiru, but until now they didn't reply me. This blade is very tempting.... have to try it myself... Stefanus

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:16pm
	Hi, Stefanusj, to which address did you send your e-mail ? Try this : [email protected] Usually Miss Suzuki replies very fast. Do you play shakehand or penhold ? If you play penhold you can get Cypress or Kim Taek Soo from Butterfly, but I find that Darker is more comfortable to hold. If you play shakehand maybe you can try Ranking Sports in Singapore, I heard they intended to stock some Darker blades months ago.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

aeoliah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215	Post Options Post Reply Quote aeoliah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:37pm
	Sorry, I see that you were inquiring the Tanpan, which means that you play shake hand. So far that I know, only Darker makes single ply Hinoki.
	Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48

Shalashashka Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 05/25/2006 Status: Offline Points: 171	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shalashashka Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:46pm
	Juic makes a single ply shakehand as well.
	Extra Rorin.