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Donic Bluefire M2 smell |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Posted: 09/26/2012 at 7:48pm |
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I bought a sheet of this on a trip last week to Europe, and I am waiting for the glue to dry as I am writing this. First thing I noticed is the strong smell that other people have commented on in their various Bluefire threads.
I now realize that it smells almost EXACTLY like Dandoy's Bio Booster, which I bought a couple of years ago and only used once. I still have a nearly full bottle of that booster and was able to compare it directly. So their is no doubt in my mind how Donic is getting some of their effect in this rubber (although some people in the other threads have said they like it better after it has been on their blade for awhile). I will try it out tomorrow and see for myself. |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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Wow, Donic works with Dandoy's booster people to develop this M2 rubber?
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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FWIW, I second this observation. Source: Have a sheet of M2 and a jar of Bio-Booster. |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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hmmm something smells fishy~~
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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That's kind of amusing. Of the 4 or 5 different different boosting agents I've tried, Dandoy's Bio Booster was one of my least favorite, as it adds speed, but little else...
Maybe when the rubber "calms down" (bio booster is seems to last two weeks or so) the spin catches up with the speed?
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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its kinda over simplification.
- It could be that there is some aromatic additive in rubber manufacturing process which is also used in boosters. - It could be donic and dandoy has same white label source for buying the booster as dandoy. like rubbers. - it could be that dandoy gets the booster from donic. isn't it? |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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You are absolutely right; it is an oversimplification and there could be other reasons. However... I've tried many boosters. Bio-Booster, IMO, has a distinct smell. So does Bluefire. The smells are quite similar (in fact, seemingly identical from a subjective standpoint). I've never smelled another booster that smells like Bio-Booster, and I've never smelled another rubber that smells like Bluefire. Based on the above, I don't think it's simply that boosters and rubbers (in general) share a constituent with similar aromatic qualities. There is no guarantee that Bluefire is boosted by Bio-Booster, or that it's boosted by anything at all. I think it is likely, but there are not many ways of demonstrating this definitively. (Can someone please call Donic and request that they publicly give away their trade secrets here on MYTT so we can figure this out? ) Nonetheless, given the fact that the nature of the rubber's play seems to change after a couple weeks (which is the time window of Bio-Booster effects), that the two smell seemingly identical, and that I have it on reliable authority that many (most?) European high-level players are using Bio-Booster... I'm going to put my money on the notion that Bluefire is boosted with something quite similar to Bio-Booster, if not Bio-Booster itself. But I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Edited by Anton Chigurh - 09/27/2012 at 1:44am |
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speaquinox
Gold Member Joined: 03/19/2007 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 1742 |
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I don't know about Dandoy booster, however the smell on Bluefire is exactly like Tibhar Clean Tuning Extra. So it's obvious that this is a tuner smell. There were one or two glue producers when glue was legal and I guess same applies to boosters/tuners.
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Innerforce ALC, Glayzer / Rozena
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Dandy Bioboost is apparently manufactured by TRF in Belgium. They also supply to other brands (Tibhar CTE?) So, it's quite probable that Donic gets the product from them.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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All I said is that they smell the same, but that said, the human nose is a pretty sensitive analytical device. I think it is a reasonable conclusion that some of the molecules in the booster are used by Donic (well, actually ESN) for the same purpose in their sponge, and so I think your alternative 1 is unlikely (but not impossible). Either of your alternatives 2 and 3 would be consistent with the observation. It is interesting that the Tibhar booster has the same smell, but then again not surprising because it is obvious that Dandoy would not be manufacturing anything themselves (any more than Paddle Palace). So my guess is that there is a company in Europe that makes and sells this booster, and ESN buys it from then and adds it to the Bluefire sponge, and probably before long, in other rubbers as well. Edited by Baal - 09/27/2012 at 10:07am |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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Everyone is try to build these gimmicks into their rubbers nowaday!
"Tuner-effect", "Tensor", "High-Tune", High Tension", "Spring Sponge"
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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Well said. There are brew masters that can sniff out types and ages of beer, and chefs that can dissect ingredients using taste. These observations should not be taken too lightly, nor too seriously.
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spin_whisperer
Beginner Joined: 05/29/2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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I think rasant has the same smell as bluefire..I could be wrong though.
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Vihito
Super Member Joined: 06/28/2011 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Well, Donic's motto is "Tuned to perfection"
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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Guys, do not forget that the BF series are ESN as well as Rasant. Of course all of the new rubbers are tuned most probably with something made by TRF / Falco - this is just my opinion. Even Tenergy is tuned but is not ESN.
By the way a friend of mine has both M2 and Rasant and says that they are 99% alike, maybe M2 is slightly springier. And Vihito is right about the Donci Slogan We should not overmistify the different names when it comes to ESN tensors. Use the brand you can get hold of cheaper it will not make much of a difference in your game. |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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+1 [ but make sure its from the same generation... and same sponge hardness]
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Also, when it gets old, just reboost with Dandoy or Tibhar. Re-tune it back to perfection!
Edited by Baal - 09/27/2012 at 5:24pm |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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This is my plan. I don't compete in tournaments, but... Hypothetically, can tuning really be called "cheating" if you're simply treating a rubber the same way it was treated in the factory? Tuning a rubber that was not tuned at the factory is one thing, but restoring the chemical tuner that has dissipated from a factory-tuned rubber seems like another thing altogether. I believe the rule says something about changing the nature of sponge, or top sheet, or whatever. If (again, hypothetically) you were applying the same chemical in the same amounts to the rubber, you cannot be accused of changing the properties of the rubber if that's how it came to you from the factory, right? I dunno... seems like it wouldn't be "changing" the properties of the rubber but rather "restoring" the properties of the rubber. The rule says nothing about restoration, if I remember correctly... |
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ttplayer92
Super Member Joined: 09/24/2011 Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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but thats assuming you know exactly how the factory used the tuner. you know as well as me that they will not release that information
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Butterfly Viscaria
FH Globe 999 National BH Xiom Vega Pro |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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Yes, I know/agree. I was more interested in the principle rather than the practical details. ;) I'm just picking on the vague wording of the rule. Hypothetically, then, let's pretend my brother-in-law worked on the ESN assembly line and knew precisely the amounts of tuner involved. Further, let's pretend I had a rigorous and reliable way to measure the dissipation of the tuner and subsequently the remaining amount in my sponge. This way, when I retuned with the exact same tuner on a factory tuned sponge I could add the precise amount that kept the rubber within factory specifications. In this unrealistic and impossible case, would my reapplication of a tuner to restore a factory tuned rubber to nearly the identical state in which I purchased it be considered "cheating"? |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Anton... you didn't read it right.
the rule is: Don't stretch, bleach, curl, squeeze, paint, pluck, boil, clean, marinate, grill, ........blah blah blah blah..................blah blah blah.... the sponge or the topsheet by any chemical....... Don't....... blah blah blah Don't blah blah Don't blah Don't... .... [However if you do all above but pass Enez... we will let you play !!! ] |
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ttplayer92
Super Member Joined: 09/24/2011 Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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Exactly!
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Butterfly Viscaria
FH Globe 999 National BH Xiom Vega Pro |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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It's just such a bizarrely written rule. The vagueness of the wording combined with the inability to enforce it consistently just makes the whole thing seem farcical.
I'm glad I don't really have to worry about it, but it's still an irritating display of seeming incompetence. |
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spin_whisperer
Beginner Joined: 05/29/2012 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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lol nice! |
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H3 Provincial\Timo Boll Spirit ST/Sigma Europe |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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One could almost argue that the way the rule is worded, you would be cheating not to tune it back. |
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Anton Chigurh
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Ha! I like the way you think, sir. |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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Agreed, I would say something even stronger. I think it is illegal NOT to retune the rubber. Because if you do not, you are playing with a rubber that is different from how it came from the factory. If you retune, at least you have a chance to be legal. If you don't, you are surely illegal. Edit: I see someone else came up with that argument :) Edited by seguso - 09/28/2012 at 5:16am |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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regomellor
Member Joined: 06/25/2012 Location: España Status: Offline Points: 63 |
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I have a M3 for three weeks now and i prefer its behavior now. It's lost springness but the spin is even higher and its speed and punch is still there, and it´s more linear, too. Veeeeeeeeery nice rubber though
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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On another recent thread somebody mentioned that after he had taken M2 off his blade, it left behind a bunch of oil on the wood and he wanted to know how to get it off.
All the same, ITTF says if you tune your rubber you are breaking the rules! |
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