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Forehand Stroke - Any help? |
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diedona
Member Joined: 07/13/2014 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Posted: 05/11/2015 at 12:13pm |
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Hello there,
I'm trying to improve my forehand stroke, trainning alone for about 1 month in the back of my house. I feel that i have improved a little, but everytime i see myself on a video i really dislike what i am doing. Every forehand stroke video i see on the internet seems to make a beautiful line from the hand at ready position to the midle of the face. But when i try to do it at home, i see myself often making a curve to hit the ball. Is that a reeally huge mistake? Am i in the right path? (on the video i'm using a chinese rubber, but i feel its similar with euro/jap). I'm currently "coachless" as i exposed my game problems to my former coach and he said he could do nothing to help. I quitted the trainning sessions and started trainning in my house (my mom is blocking for me XD) one stroke at time. Currently looking for another place/coach, but no luck so far. Thanks! |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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I would recommend leaving the arm loose and initiate the swing using legs and body rotation. When using this method swing has to start early, but I find it easier to maintain control and rhythm.
In you current form - I would recommend following the ball in with your racquet, this will help your timing and make the stroke look smoother. Also, start the stroke from where you want to finish, so if want to finish with straight arm - start there and follow the ball in for the next shot. I believe once you make contact with the ball, everything else has no effect on the shot. So I focus on making clean contact and the get to ready position for the next shot. Also, I believe there are quite a few internet coaches Brett Clarke, Samson Dubina and PingSkills all offer online coaching - might be an option to consider. Good Luck
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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If you go to OOAK forum, I have a thread/blog on rebuilding my forehand. Some of the info on pages in the posts between 60 and 100 may be of help. Most of it has to do with how you are swinging your arm. That's where your biggest problems are.
As much as people like to focus on body usage (which is very important), I have seen people with good body rotation but bad forehands because they don't know how to use the arm. So the idea that body rotation is more important by itself is another falsehood. If you can, join TTedge. The main coach is currently helping a student rebuild all his strokes so you will learn easily what makes a good forehand and steps to building one. Edited by NextLevel - 05/11/2015 at 1:16pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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jrscatman
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Don't want to hijack the thread - but we'll agree to disagree on this point.
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Butterfly MPS
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Sure. I have a whole thread on this topic at ooakforum with multiple videos that illustrate my POV. What do you have? Some quote you got from someone else or a stroke that you can't even share on camera? |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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diedona
Member Joined: 07/13/2014 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the comments! I have seen a lot of videos on youtube, but i haven't tried the online coaches and ping pong skills /ttedge (at least not the subscribed content). I will look for it. Currently i feel like my arm movement is too short. I practice on the mirror a few strokes, but when i go to play, i just make it short. And also the problem with the "line" of my stroke, which ends up being a curve :( I try to rotate and transfer the weight in the stroke, i even managed to separate a little my elbow from my body. It used to be almost glued together :P I just feel confuse. I think i know what i should do, but i havent managed to do it right until now! |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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You need to swing and let the stroke do what it does. Trust your body to adapt. If I were you, I would straighten my arm out, relax my wrist and arm, close the paddle more, and swing for and finish above my eyes on Tue same side of the body. If the ball goes long, close the paddle more.
Do the stroke slowly in multiball and don't start by trying to hit the table. Get the swing first and hit the table after. A common mistake in table tennis is to be so focused on getting the ball in the table that you never do the proper stroke. That is why kids are lucky - they start young when they don't care and their brain adapsts automatically. Adults are so scared of failikg that they destroy the learning process. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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I believe you don't trust what your stroke and bat will do...
Your short stroke is causing you to accelerate at the last minute and you are trying to steer the ball to the table with your stroke (the curve you talk about)... Rotate your body backwards with your arm. You don't have to rotate too much for this shot, just enough so you generate enough strike on the ball as you pass the contact point to finish with your wrist roughly head high... Don't steer the ball. Think! The angle that you strike the ball will put topspin on the ball and bring it down to the table... Splitting your legs and getting down a bit may help... Don't be afraid to power some balls off the table, as you find your angle and contact... Enjoy! Edited by CraneStyle - 05/11/2015 at 3:10pm |
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Leftyy
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2015 Location: Europa Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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I'm not the best coach but I would suggest you to relax in your under arm and wrist a little more, looks a little stiff. Otherwise I think it's look pretty okay, just keep on practicing and good luck!
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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Diedona,
Your stroke could be smoother. Are you doing a spin or flat hit oriented FH?
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diedona
Member Joined: 07/13/2014 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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hey tom,
i am trying to build a spin oriented FH. In the video i have mixed drives, loopspin and some "i-dunno-if-i-can-call-it-FH", as some balls come different than the others (aaand i have a wall of concrete at my right, which i have already hitted with my head) @NextLevel, @CraneStyle, @Leftyy i will try to take the tips i have received from you all and make another take! Indeed i am too much stiff with the arm. Maybe i need someone yelling at me: RELAX THE ARM! MAKE A LONGER STROKE! XD |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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So here is the thread on rebuilding my forehand:
Here was the biggest thing I needed to fix for my technique: That said, I have been playing US tournaments for almost 4 years and have a few things built in like body turn etc. You also have to learn how the stroke feels when the right contact is made with the ball and try to reproduce it. Here is a video from PingSkills that discusses the issue but IMO doesn't get to the heart of it (you cannot finish the way they describe if you do not move your elbow out), but it might still help you as it has helped others: Edited by NextLevel - 05/11/2015 at 4:25pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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It looks better than I expected. As others said, as you get in more reps and relax your arm will become more "live."
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DistantStar
Super Member Joined: 07/19/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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I see 2 major areas for improvement
1. Usage of legs and waist. I feel for small strokes (your stroke), you need to turn your hip with your stroke to generate power and maintain stability. For larger strokes (Xuxin and most Chinese pro strokes), you also need to add your legs and make each stroke a transfer of weight 2. Stroke too small resulting from not using upper arms. Imagine your arms is a trebuchet, you want the beam (upper arm) to swing while the sling (small arm) whip with the beam. Your stroke is like the sling whipping by itself. I'm gussing it's super hard to generate power and overcome back spin with that small stroke. |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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"hey tom,
i am trying to build a spin oriented FH. In the video i have mixed drives, loopspin and some "i-dunno-if-i-can-call-it-FH", as some balls come different than the others (aaand i have a wall of concrete at my right, which i have already hitted with my head" How long is your stroke from the back swing to the point of contact? For a loop, to smooth it out , that distance I would say should be at least 16 inches and a follow thru to at least eye level would help. You could change it once your stroke is smooth, consistent, and have some pace. Edited by tom - 05/11/2015 at 4:43pm |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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man, the poster is just grooving his stroke in and some of you guys want him ripping the ball like a pro. Do you guys really rotate the torso and whip the ball when you're hitting with your friend in the basement?
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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Couple of ideas for you. It looks like you are a little upright and reacting kind of sharply to the ball. Take a step back and swing very slowly, so you don't put more pace on than you want to get back. Because the most important thing is to have no tension, mental or muscular. You ought to be just swinging your arm loose, and happening to meet the ball with the paddle -- not trying to hit the ball hard or anything.
Giving yourself more space and time should make that easier. You would also be able to lean your weight forward. It's hard to see from the angle but it looks like your arm stays bent the whole time and the swing comes all from your shoulder. Try letting your arm straighten on the backswing and swing mostly from the elbow, if that makes sense. If you look at the thread NL linked to on OOAK you will see his swing which is almost all elbow. Edited by BRS - 05/11/2015 at 6:47pm |
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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PS Props to your mom for her blocking. That is freaking awesome.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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You know, you've said that before and I never really mentally thought of my swing that way. But today, I did and it helped with some aspects of it. So thanks a million. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
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+1000. That's a TT super Mom right there. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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yogi_bear
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use your neck to help turn your body when doing follow throughs on the stroke.
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diedona
Member Joined: 07/13/2014 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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@NextLevel
Thanks for the video!! I've seen the thread and the exact picture you pointed out... I think it's my major mistake, i will have some time tonight and i will try to slow down and tape myself to see what i am doing. @DistantStart You are right, generally i have many problems with backspin. I need to make it larger, i know i have to make it larger... But when i go to the table, i really mess things up. But it used to be worse, maybe if i can practice the tips you guys are telling me i will be able to extend it! @tom I think my stroke, as others pointed out, is being too short... I will try to make it larger and finish above eye level (maybe i will hit my head a couple of times in the proccess). @cole_ely thanks for the encouragement! i really dont wanna go pro, but i feel depressed by my current level of table tennis. My first coach was amazing, i really grew my game with him, playing in the local league. However, he was dismissed from the club (never said why) and the current coach of the club... "Sorry, Can't help you." @BRS I will try to step back and make it slower, but there's little space there... I am starting to think that my short movements sometimes are due to a constant fear of hitting the blade on the wall, lol @yogi_bear Like, looking at the ball, by side, and then following it straight? I will try! Thanks everyone for the tips. And yes, my mom is the real star there. She had never played table tennis seriously, but she tries to help me. She's a great blocker <3 |
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boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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dude your forehand is good, but its a topspin drive. not really loop.
initiate the arm with the hips and body, body turns first then arm strokes. something you do really good is your eyes are always on the ball until it leaves your racket. this is because your neck is really still thats good, dont turn your neck. lol a larger stroke can be produce with more knee bend and body rotation. this is not always necessary specially in counter looping rallys. short strokes are important too reason your arm is so close to your body is because you use too much arm to begin with, i bet your arm is closer to body becasue you feel like you can snap it more and produce more spin right?
Edited by boaspirit - 05/13/2015 at 12:26am |
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yogi_bear
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he needs to turn his neck because it's a synergistic action with the shoulders and torso after contacting the ball and make him on his original or neutral position again.
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boaspirit
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the neck, body and torso should turn as a unit, but the neck should not be forced to turn before body rotation, right?
Edited by boaspirit - 05/13/2015 at 10:50am |
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yogi_bear
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The neck rotation is simultaneous with the body and shoulder rotation not before. Sometimes moving the neck is the main culprit on 2hy people cannot return to their neutral position when doing forehand drives or loops. Even the free arm should also go with the body rotation.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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His stroke actually looks a lot like Timo Boll's. Very short and focused impact and not so smooth. It can be good to minimize his recovery time, but limits power. Another factor is that the playing area is limiting his development because he won't be daring enough to use some fuller strokes.
If he wants he can try to carry the ball a bit higher and longer on the table but that is about it. Another way is to train against underspin a bit more. Less tension on the arm would always help.
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boaspirit
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yes what im saying
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V-Griper
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Two things-
1- wait for the ball to be in the descent phase, after top of bounce, before making contact, this will give you a much better feel for spinning the ball. Let the ball drop to a point near table height before make contact with the ball. 2- Your left arm is flailing around. Keep it closer to your CG and don't let it flop. This is turning into one of the main problems with people developing there strokes and it's over looked because it's assumed that you can do whatever you want with it and it does not matter. It matters a lot so use it to help your stroke. Reading this may help.
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diedona
Member Joined: 07/13/2014 Location: Brasil Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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@boaspirit
i try to stick my eyes to the ball after a coach from another city (i was warming up with my mom and he came up with some tips) told me to do so hehe my arm is close to the body.. i think that, unconsciously, i let it there to use more power and less margin of error. But when i am here, sitting and exploring videos, i know it should be different. i think this is bad habit at its prime :( @blahness oh lord, i really went to youtube and searched for some timo's strokes after that! haha I couldnt tape, but i did what you told tuesday. I felt topspin vs backspin was a little easier with the tips of everyone, and the movement felt larger. But i have to tape it to be sure. @V-Griper I will have another mom-son table tennis session today and will try to apply yours tips too. Thanks for the link! Once again, thanks everyone for the help. I couldn't tape tuesday trainning, but i will do whatever is possible to record it today and post the results. |
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