Upgrade from Mark V

I have Mark V and lifting shots should be easy.  The only difference between the Mark V and the T05 is the degree of forgiveness of any errors.   The key is the same whether using T05 or Mark V.   You must come up over the back of the ball at the same speed or faster.  For instance if the chopped ball is spinning at 100  revolutions per second then the angular speed of the leading surface of the ball is 2*PI*0.02*100 or 12.56 m/s.   This means your paddle must hit the ball with a upwards tangential speed of 12.56 m/s.  If you move the paddle up any slower the ball will push off down wards against the rubber.  If you swing faster the paddle will exert an upwards force on the ball and start getting a higher 'throw'  ( I hate that term ).   The physics are the same for both Mark V and T05.  The difference is when you don't match the speed just right the T05 will respond to the difference a little more than the Mark V.  It is also possible to close the paddle just a little more with the T05 if you can swing faster than the 12.56 m/s.  This will keep the ball lower.

Edited by pnachtwey - 10/21/2010 at 4:17pm

pnachtwey are you an engineer? and is your conclusion that - Mark V is fine for looping? 

dewang... if you are from india, then do remember you can't get probably any of these rubbers at the price of mark v in india ($17 a sheet).... except red diamond.

Did you tried tuning your mark v? You can try but a tuned piece will be very different

from original, before you switch to new gen rubber.

Mark V is a looping rubber, that's what it's been since the dawn of time, it's a old fashioned one but that's still what it is.

I wanted to ask the same things but probably would not have worded it as tactifully as you.  I can not picture any 2000 level player that has big trouble with topspin or chop.

From my experience chinese stuff or soft rubbers excel in lifting hard underspin for intermediate players. I couldn't beat one hardchopper at our club for monthes - tried roxon 450, g3 fx, glued Bryce, even T05 (the moment when chopper is returning your hard earned loop to you with all that accumulated triple (his - yours - his )spin is very very scary). And once I switched a paddle and played with my Solcion on FH  - and here we are  - first win :) Soft loops on the table but lack of power.  Then I moved on chinese stuff - Globe 999 Nat, DHS H3 Neo, BW II tuned, LKT RD. And now the w/l ratio is standing somewhere  - 65/35  on my side. So my advice - take RD from your list - and do practice, that rubber will do the job. And when you'll develop your skill to the extent when you'll be able count tangular speed, adjust bat angle, move in right position - then switch to the donic coppa speed, T64 or smth like that  - and k*ll'em all ! :)

Agree with the technical advice already given. Rubber wont make much difference unless the technique is correct.

My first rubber is Mark V Ad not Mark V. After playing for 6 years, finally I tried Mark V Max on FH and Mark V HPS 2.0 on BH.
I can serve very spiny serve with Mark V, that's amazed me. It's almost the same with H3.

If you want to find a faster rubber of Mark V then Mark V HPS could be an alternative.
It smells like chinese rubber because of the natural rubber on the top sheet.
The sponge is more livelier, bouncy and has a nice speed glue sound.
If you don't tune/speed glue your Mark V but want to have a faster rubber feels like Mark V, then HPS is the one you should try.

vic#74 wrote: pnachtwey and the others talking about technique are absolutely right. But to note: I insist that there are rubber making loop over underspin a lot EASIER than the others. For example, I'm confidently making loops against underspin with RD and  still could do only 1 of 5 with rubbers like roxon and nianmor and never 2 in row with them.

Dewang, did you maybe used new white ugly glue to attach mark V to blade? It can kill any old rubber. Once I bought new sheet of Sriver L (before this I used sriver fx for years), and unfortunately seller told me I can use new btty stupid glue. Result is that I needed almost max body swing to return any ball on the other side of table ( I had off- blade), couldnt even think of looping chop, rubber was 30% slower than sriver fx, and hard like a stone. Neither 4 layers of old glue every day after this helped, rubber was fully dead. It was because of new glue. Many people have same expirience. Rubbers like sriver and mark V should be attached with old glue. Not to boost them, but to not kill them.

Thanks you guys for your advice and I APOLOGIZE for some mis-understanding on my part. I played with a player who was 1500-1550 rated. I lost to him in a really close matches , I mean 11-9, 9-11,11-8,11-8 . "So I thought lesser the number better the player" , that's why I assumed myself to be 1900-2000 as I was playing close to 1500 rated player. But not as good so I rated myself at 1900-2000 But now reading your post I understand the "Greater the number of rating better the player".  So sorry for the confusion.

I can very well do a top-spin to an underspin, and hit some nice shots too. My problem is I cannot do it consistently. So I thought may be by changing my equipment would help me improve. I play a lot on my robot with similar settings and get around 80% accuracy on looping an underspin chops.

But still my observation is, my Mark V is little hard , it's definitely not dead, as it's preety new and I take good care of it. I just need a softer alternative with little more help towards looping and spin.

Thanks.
Dev

Baal, I see you like mark V. I have one, and it's good around 10 days after gluing(old glue), but then become slower. I really don't like these changes on my rubbers, and I'd like to not glue at all. Do you think that after first 8-9 gluings (once in 10 days), rubber will become better (slightly softer and bouncier) than new and I could use it then without gluing at all?

Baal wrote: dewang.lakhani@ wrote: I just need a softer alternative with little more help towards looping and spin. No, you probably just need more time with the Mark V and the right technique will eventually come to you.  Some disciplined practice with some better players might help you if you can find someone willing to help you.

+1. Completely agree. You need someone to show you the proper technique in looping underspin. You can do both with hard and soft sponges.

I used to play with softer sponges than now, so here is how I would characterize them when looping against underspin:

Softer Sponges require the underspin loop to be more impactful to the ball - this is due to the bounce of the soft sponges - which generally bounce more with some kind of a rebound effect. I consider Mark V to be in this list of softer sponges ( even though its medium in hardness, ). If you try to brush up on the ball without forward force, the sponge gives in and the ball will not travel high enough. So more impact will be needed. Once you start getting the ball over the net, you'll probably going to loop past the table. This is a good sign. I'd rather miss going long all the time instead of going short. If going long, you'll have to learn to cover the ball at contact so that more topspin is produced and the ball will hit the table. Looping with softer sponges can be done without wrist use because the sponge will "catapult" the ball on its own.

Hard Sponges are not bouncy, so they have more dwell time. This is where use of wrist and proper angle is important. Its especially important on slow loops. The topsheets of hard sponged rubbers are usually grippy or tacky for that purpose - to be able to brush up on a ball at slower pace. For power loops - hard sponges tend to do a better job - they allow you to simply hit through the spin without trying to work against it. Problem is that still need some kind of wrist in order to cover the ball and not launch it too long.

If you understand the mechanics - work on your robot and try to reduce your swing as much as possible. So that you have a good ball contact and timing worked out. Then increase the backspin.

If you want us to help, you can videotape yourself and post it up for analysis. We'll take a look and provide feedback. When taping - tape from the side view and from the diagonal view from the front. Make sure to capture full body position/rotation so that all elements of technique can be visible.