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    Posted: 08/19/2014 at 4:45pm
Don't know what the public feel while watching TT. But playing TT you can compare it with music

TT in the 90s
TT with plastic (for those with a poster of Sharara above their bed)

Or in a classical way

TT in the 90s
TT with plastic (really really sucks)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:55am
Igor, no good player is going to use something they can't control.  Feel free to use that thin rubber.  I continue to wonder how you can look at modern table tennis with celluloid and dislike it.  And you are right.  I have no influence with Sharara.  I would personally consider that a badge of honor since people are judged by the friends they keep.  I don't write him letters, I don't call him on the phone and I certainly don't believe he would listen to me. 

Here is one last point, since this is a thread about a specific plastic balls.  How about we see what happens with these balls before making still more changes?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.
I do wish people wouldn't continue to propagate this myth that I love everything the ITTF does. Thumbs Down That has never, ever been true. If you check your facts, you will find that I was the first person over at OOAK to suggest a protest against the introduction of the 40mm ball, and on the thread about establishing a players' association I wrote in July 2012: "Imagine if the top 1,000 players all threatened to boycott the next WTTC unless an assurance was given that the 40+mm poly ball would play exactly the same way as the old 38mm celluloid ball!" People conveniently forget what actually happens because it's more fun to be outraged than it is to be reasonable.


Tassie, that is not really the usual tone of your comments here. If I remember you wondered what the big deal was that at the US Open there was a plan to use both celluloid and plastic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:00am
Nittaku Premium 40+ Coming October 10

http://www.nittaku.com/products/detail/detail.php?id=533
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmugica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 9:17am
Igor, you're going to invent hardbat.

Edited by cmugica - 08/19/2014 at 9:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 9:02am
@Popperlocker
Sir,
Many thanks for being of the same thinking to mine.. So good to hear from a conscious man.
Kindly leave Baal alone.
He is unable to do our sport any marked harm.
Yes, he is a true mastermind of the old playing school and skilled talker,, still unable to talk Sharara out of the plastic. Never.

SLOWER BALL IS THE BLESSED INNOVATION.

1) We must to invariably look to keep up our sport healthy and wealthy.
The celluloid ball has now got too speedy, difficult to control, thus detrimental element of the modern game..   
Slower ball of plastic proved to offer an easy controllable play, hence is going to do very well for the good of the sport.

2) My superior concern of today's is those rubber developers who got obsessed with "speed zeal".
In response to the slower plastic ball, all the major manufacs have now started out for a new generation of tensored rubber with a 'super catapulta buit-in' so as to speed up the game by far,
This is a true disaster to the sport. No controllable shots, endless errors, no spectacular rallies any more.

STOP THE SUPER CATAPULTA !!!

Certainly, for the good of the sport, we should now restrict and regulate any artificial speed enhancers e.g.
-oily boosters,
-catapultive rubbers.
-composite blades of aircraft materials
And suchlike, other than player's natural muscular power.


Good athleticism and playing skills is the only speed enchancer to be justified, here I stand.      


Edited by igorponger - 08/19/2014 at 9:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 4:16am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.
I do wish people wouldn't continue to propagate this myth that I love everything the ITTF does. Thumbs Down That has never, ever been true. If you check your facts, you will find that I was the first person over at OOAK to suggest a protest against the introduction of the 40mm ball, and on the thread about establishing a players' association I wrote in July 2012: "Imagine if the top 1,000 players all threatened to boycott the next WTTC unless an assurance was given that the 40+mm poly ball would play exactly the same way as the old 38mm celluloid ball!" People conveniently forget what actually happens because it's more fun to be outraged than it is to be reasonable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2014 at 12:02am
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

I can't escape the conclusion that people who DON'T want to change are advocating this because of deficiencies in their OWN games. A good player will be always be a good player. It's the players that have holes in their game that will suffer, because their fragile games cannot adjust. You should think about what you are saying Baal.
In our modern world, where people get bored after 2 seconds. You need to find ways to capture the audience. Tennis has lost spin and speed as well, with their ban of spaghetti pattern and contant slowing down of courts. Try getting a normal person to watch table tennis, they get turned off really quick. Even many tt players at the club can't watch table tennis. You're living in la la land if you think nothing is wrong when the best players in the world are playing in empty stadiums, super league losing money, 90% of private clubs losing money, superleague losing money, bundesliga losing money. Stop dreaming, open your eyes. 


You have no evidence that the current pace and athleticism of the sport is responsible for any of the things you mention.  It is complex.  I think a much better case can be made that slowing and dumbing the game down will not help.  I have lived through a lot of changes now (the first time I played Danny Seemiller he had red rubber on both sides).  These changes have not helped -- well, at least not all of them have.  At least a few have alienated players who at the end of the day are what keep the sport going,.  The consequences of the costs of these balls may come back and bite.  This will have a big impact on private clubs.  Do you really think that modern table tennis is that bad to watch?  Really?  I don't know anybody who plays seriously who thinks that.  Confused  And you think that match I posted from 1979 was better??????????? 

Anyway, one other thing needs to be mentioned.  The change from 38mm to 40mm was handled a lot better.  To be honest, I never thought it was that big a deal, although I know some disagree.   Now we face a weird transitional period in which we have to deal with both kinds of balls, in which many of the new balls are clearly very bad but expensive and we don't know if they will get better.  This is a major self inflicted wound for the sport and was totally unnecessary.  People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.  Our Betters are telling us how things should be and no matter ill conceived and poorly executed, we should stand up and admire their Wisdom. 

We will get past this, but make no mistake, this time it is hurting the sport.  The one thing that may keep it from being a really big disaster is if these Nittaku Japan balls become the dominant technology at a reasonable price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is. When I was young in Stockholm, my father took me to see Kjell Johansson play Hans Alser at a sports hall on Valhallavägen, so I have been around awhile and have seen a lot of changes.  When I first started to play, speed glue was a closely kept secret among a few Hungarian players and Mark V was considered revolutionary because it was so fast and spinny.  How can you watch a match between Ma Long and ZJK, or between Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning, or between Timo Boll and Joo Se Hyuk and not think it is incredible and something totally compelling?  Guys like Johansson and Jonyer were my idols growing up, but believe me, I would much rather watch Ovtcharov play XU Xin.  I can't escape the conclusion that people who want to change this or that rule are advocating this because of deficiencies in their own games.  Can't return serve?  Dumb it down.  Can't play at pace?  Slow it down.  Can't read spin?  Change equipment to reduce spin.  Given the idiocy of some ITTF decisions I sometimes think, can't quite count to 21?  Make a game to 11. 

To love modern table tennis is not insane.  Think about what you are saying Igor.
I can't escape the conclusion that people who DON'T want to change are advocating this because of deficiencies in their OWN games. A good player will be always be a good player. It's the players that have holes in their game that will suffer, because their fragile games cannot adjust. You should think about what you are saying Baal.
In our modern world, where people get bored after 2 seconds. You need to find ways to capture the audience. Tennis has lost spin and speed as well, with their ban of spaghetti pattern and contant slowing down of courts. Try getting a normal person to watch table tennis, they get turned off really quick. Even many tt players at the club can't watch table tennis. You're living in la la land if you think nothing is wrong when the best players in the world are playing in empty stadiums, super league losing money, 90% of private clubs losing money, superleague losing money, bundesliga losing money. Stop dreaming, open your eyes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is.
I agree wholeheartedly with sentence number 2.  I disagree wholeheartedly with sentence number 1.

If people truly hated modern table tennis, they wouldn't be playing it and they wouldn't be posting here. People who hate modern table tennis are nowhere to be seen.  Instead, what I think is happening is that each of us mistakenly believes we know better than everyone else (and I include myself in this delusional group). Confident that we have the solution to the world's problems, we proclaim our ideas for everyone else to see, believing that if everyone else (particularly the ITTF) would listen to us then all would be well in TT land.  The problem, of course, is that no-one else is listening because we are all too busy shouting out our own truths.

This issue is exacerbated by our tendency to look at table tennis through rose coloured glasses.  Your choice between games old and new highlights that - very few of us would honestly vote for Jonyer-Orlovski over Matsudaira-Samsonov.  (I for one never want to see those shorts again, and I never want to be reminded of what I looked like back then either!!!)  But we still hear endless cries about the good old days of the 38mm ball and the sophistication of hidden serves and how superlative the game was when we were sniffing vast quantities of speed glue.  (Perhaps there's a clue there. Wink )

My take on it is that the game is doing just fine, thank you very much.  And it will continue to evolve in positive ways - even without our invaluable input. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:24pm
The unintended consequences of moving to the new balls have already started to unfold for ITTF,and local associations.  They always figured that players would come and go and the majority of players would quickly adapt, pay more  and life would move along.  Ball cost and availability are suddenly impacting club decisions to transition facing tight budgets with rents and employee expenses plus ball durability and the reality that they may have to pay double and buy anew in Jan 2016! It may be that clubs will  jack up fee's to cover these new ball costs but club owners and nonprofits will be an unhappy group they would have preferred that  rising fee's would cover rent increase or new  equipment such as tables, robots and coaching, not for balls. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.



That is correct.   Though there are ever slight variances of ball weight from one to another.....  What you feel as hard or soft when hitting any ball is not the weight of the ball, it is the compression or lack there of.  

I hit with a Joola poly ball recently and as my club mate who got them from the US open pointed out, the Joola poly ball was quite stiff when pressing your thumb into it. As a result it felt harder when hitting it.   Test this with a Nittaku 3 star Premium and some other lessor 3 star celluloid ball.   

So the next time you thing any certain ball lighter or heavier...press you thumb into it and that will tell you why. 


Edited by Rich215 - 08/18/2014 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:22am
True about the comb-over.   I almost picked a clip with Gabor Gergeley, who had a hairstyle and mustache that could have made him one of the Village People.     I think these two clips, semi-randomly picked, make the point that we may have more rallies now than we did in the past, in spite of faster equipment.  (I say semi-random because I wanted to show Igor's favorite player).  And certainly the rallies that we do have are more exciting.

This is true, in spite of the fact that serving now is infinitely more sophisticated than it was then -- because serve returns are infinitely better too.  How can you look at modern serving compared to what is seen in the Jonyer clip (or anyone else of that era) and say we have dumbed down the sport??? 

One other thing funny.  I remember wearing shorts like that. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Which is more exciting to watch. 

This?


Or this?



I don't think the sport is "cretinized"



Choice #2 was much more entertaining. Although choice #1 gets props for best combover and for having superior video resolution to your average 2014 ittf webstream
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 10:02am
I'm gonna have to go with Vladi vs Kenta on that one. ^^^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:49am
Which is more exciting to watch. 

This?


Or this?



I don't think the sport is "cretinized"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:38am
I agree with Igor or on all points.

Additionally, I am amazed and appalled at the footwork speed these Chinese stalwarts like Ma Long exhibit in their game. It is too fast for spectators to follow. I propose that henceforth non-Chinese players play with a 50 lb weight tied to each of their feet. The Chinese players should play with 75lb weights on each of their feet. This should help slow down their game.

If this does not do enough, we should adopt other additional measures - such as a live, sleepy scorpion on their shoulders, ready to strike when woken up by the rapid movements. Or, perhaps, a sleepy anaconda.

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Speed kills, yes.

It does.
And if the players don't amend their ways, it will, literally.

Vote Igor for President! :)

Edited by slevin - 08/18/2014 at 9:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:15am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is. When I was young in Stockholm, my father took me to see Kjell Johansson play Hans Alser at a sports hall on Valhallavägen, so I have been around awhile and have seen a lot of changes.  When I first started to play, speed glue was a closely kept secret among a few Hungarian players and Mark V was considered revolutionary because it was so fast and spinny.  How can you watch a match between Ma Long and ZJK, or between Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning, or between Timo Boll and Joo Se Hyuk and not think it is incredible and something totally compelling?  Guys like Johansson and Jonyer were my idols growing up, but believe me, I would much rather watch Ovtcharov play XU Xin.  I can't escape the conclusion that people who want to change this or that rule are advocating this because of deficiencies in their own games.  Can't return serve?  Dumb it down.  Can't play at pace?  Slow it down.  Can't read spin?  Change equipment to reduce spin.  Given the idiocy of some ITTF decisions I sometimes think, can't quite count to 21?  Make a game to 11. 

To love modern table tennis is not insane.  Think about what you are saying Igor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:08am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.



Yes but I may have it backwards.  My initial thought is that a harder ball would feel heavier, but it was recently pointed out to me that a softer ball could also feel heavier, like when you try to kick a football that has no air in it.  Also some people have even complained that the new balls feel light!  Perhaps it depends on how you play, or maybe the whole thing is placebo effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 2:24am
Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Actually I feel that with a ball that is more difficult to spin, it will be more difficult to create arc and the ball will go into the net more often. Error rate will go up and the number of rallies will be reduced. Spectators will be bored to keep watching the players make simple mistake and have lesser rallies.. 

I agree and noticed this in the CTTSL final with Zhang Jike and Ovtcharov, a lot of unusual errors and lackluster rallies with the two-toned plastic ball compared to what we've seen both players pull off in the past.  Watching matches with the plastic ball was a bit disappointing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tianhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:57am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
YES, this is what makes our sport so special, spectecular and enjoyable!

-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?
Is there any evidence that games with the new balls will be any more attractive?

I guess I'm only a fool, why trust my opinion? Embarrassed

Let me ask you 2 questions igorponger
1. Who is more important to our sport, the players and participants, or the spectators?

2. What do you think of an organisation that makes changes to a sport that will make it more expensive, without doing the research or providing independant evidence that the change will be for the benefit of the sport?


Actually I feel that with a ball that is more difficult to spin, it will be more difficult to create arc and the ball will go into the net more often. Error rate will go up and the number of rallies will be reduced. Spectators will be bored to keep watching the players make simple mistake and have lesser rallies.. 


Edited by tianhai - 08/18/2014 at 1:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:29am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 12:54am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
YES, this is what makes our sport so special, spectecular and enjoyable!

-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?
Is there any evidence that games with the new balls will be any more attractive?

I guess I'm only a fool, why trust my opinion? Embarrassed

Let me ask you 2 questions igorponger
1. Who is more important to our sport, the players and participants, or the spectators?

2. What do you think of an organisation that makes changes to a sport that will make it more expensive, without doing the research or providing independant evidence that the change will be for the benefit of the sport?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 12:20am

Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tianhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing

I agree. You need to rub the ball more to create the arc that can be created easily with old balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 8:57pm
talking to one of the local club principle's today his take was that none of the local clubs including  those with  strong training program would be using them due to cost.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:23am
hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:07am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.


In the OP's case, where the scale's precision is to the gram, the OP would need 100 balls minimum to get a reliable 2 decimal point average.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2014 at 11:46pm
One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.
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