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ALC vs ZLC

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    Posted: 10/04/2015 at 4:51pm
Are there any ZLC fans that switched from ALC?  What did you like about the ZLC that made you prefer it to the ALC?  I see Butterfly's grid shows ZLC as faster and softer than ALC...what does that translate into play & feel?

Thanks all.
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piligrim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 5:18pm
I wouldn't say ZLC faster and softer than ALC. Jike ZLC for example noticeable harder and slower than TB ALC and much harder than Jike ALC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 5:47pm
One of the blades with the best feeling for me was one TB ZLC. Feeling, speed ,spin, control...Fell in love immedeately. Unfortunately not the case with my own Amultart....
I've tried few different ALC and playing with those was OK but nothing exceptional. I wonder why exactly is the big rave about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 6:40pm
Piligrim, are you talking about ZLC or Super-ZLC?  I am not interested in SuperZLC, only regular ZLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

Piligrim, are you talking about ZLC or Super-ZLC?  I am not interested in SuperZLC, only regular ZLC.



I didn't say super ZLC. I said ZLC. why you confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 7:02pm
Just surprised to hear "ZLC is harder."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 7:35pm
zlc is much softer for me
alc is to stiff
rating solid 1000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

zlc is much softer for me
alc is to stiff



there is many ZLC blades. TB, Innerforce, Jike, Mizutani. you mean all of them softer then any ALC blade? or we compare any specific ZLC blade to specific ALC blade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 7:57pm
ZLC from Toyobo corp is sold only to Butterfly but they do sell Zylon to other companies but in order to make  ZLC they have to have a company do the  weaving which means that companies selling any form of ZLC is different then what ZLC Butterfly uses in it blades.  Toyobo may create various options of the ZLC weave for Butterfly further making comparisons difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/04/2015 at 8:19pm
the innerforce and jm zlc are softer then zjk and tb zlc's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 3:10am
ZLC provides a more direct feel...

ALC is a more muted feel, to me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 3:11am
I felt the ZLC having more vibration and also felt faster, this is comparing Timo boll ALC vs ZLC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 4:01am
well, yes, Piligrim, I am asking for people that have used similar blades differing only in carbon type (ZLC vs ALC).  Let's stick to Koto outer ply for now.  I am curious to hear what any spin-addict brushy loop-freak who is familiar with ALC/ZLC difference would say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 4:32am
Actually I switched from ZLC to ALC.
The ZLC has a bouncy feel compared to a muted feel of the ALC (BTY TB ZLC vs TB ALC).
I have tried many Zylon blades (BTY TB ZLC, Xiom VP, VE, ZXI, Zetro Quad) and generally find ZLC less forgiving, more direct and also more powerful.
Power can often be compensated with a more active stroke but the feeling of bounciness is more difficult to manage for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crowsfeather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 4:38am
I would say zlc gave more woody and solid feel also embrace the ball more than alc. and have gear transition from slow to fast.

alc is more linear, direct and numb. Gave out what player gives embrace the ball more than pure carbon.

Try something like iolite neo vs amultard and you will understand what i mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 5:16am
Originally posted by bschap bschap wrote:

well, yes, Piligrim, I am asking for people that have used similar blades differing only in carbon type (ZLC vs ALC).  Let's stick to Koto outer ply for now.  I am curious to hear what any spin-addict brushy loop-freak who is familiar with ALC/ZLC difference would say.

Prefer loading up spin by brush looping with my tbs rather than a xzi and the tb zlc. However the zlc blades are a lot more powerful on drive kinda shots, though the tbs is more forgiving on these kinda shots. Also feel like the Alc blades iv tried have a higher throw. And like someone above said above zlc has a lot more gears compared to alc,which can be confusing at times especially while I played with the zxi, at one point it's nice n slow while slow countering while the ball just rockets off the table while yu go for a finishing drive.Guess easy to use and forgiving nature of alc is what makes many ppl use it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 9:36am
Comparing two similar blades (Boll ZLC and Boll ALC), I felt ZLC with a better crisp feel, and also lighter. ZLC was a little faster, both with T05. If I would chose, I liked more ZLC.

Edited by AMonteiro - 10/05/2015 at 9:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 2:55pm
I think ALC is the better blade, but ZLC is the one that 'feels' nicer, because zylon is flexier material than arylate. Most people like flex (and vibration), because it gives them feedback and prolongs contact time.
With respect to softness.. - and I want to hang this on a wall somewhere - SOFT AND FLEXIBLE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS! People conflate them more often than they get them right.
ALC IS SOFTER THAN ZLC. OK? Softer. Ball goes actually deeper!
But ZLC IS MORE FLEXIBLE (ALC is stiffer). 
It is easy to confuse flex for softness, but it is also easy to get it right with a little experience. If you feel vibration, your blade is flexible. Once it flexes, it will vibrate, it cannot go straight to unbend position. ZLC vibrates, and vibrations are not that tiny, it has a definite vibration, everybody can feel it. ALC does not vibrate at all, at least not detectable to human perception. Yet if you bounce the ball real easy, so not to bend (vibrate) either blade, ALC will feel softer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 5:35pm
Thanks for all the input guys.  Would you say that ZLC is a tad more difficult to control with the extra bounciness and speed?  Or does it make up for this with the softer carbon which adds some control?  Equal control ALC vs ZLC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 9:30pm
There must be something about ZLC that pros do not like, because a lot of pros use ALC blades but not a lot use ZLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

There must be something about ZLC that pros do not like, because a lot of pros use ALC blades but not a lot use ZLC.

There are definitely more pros that use ALC than ZLC, but my guess ZLC is the next most popular composite after ALC.

Mattenet, Mengel, Mizutani, Smirnov, Wehking, are the ones that I know that use/used some sort of ZLC blade. Innerforce ZLC and JM ZLC are pretty popular in the pro scene I think. But somehow ALC just swept through the world with TBSes, TB ALCs, Viscarias, and etc. TOP300 is filled with pros using some version of BTY ALC blade... I wonder how it all started...


Edited by DreiZ - 10/05/2015 at 9:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2015 at 10:48pm
ALC is older tech and pros are conservative. I suspect that in time, the younger generation's embrace of ZLC and ZLF become prominent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bschap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2015 at 1:36pm
I will add another question to this thread...TB ZLC vs ZJK ZLC...other than handle design, are these blades the same design?  Do they play the same?  I know there is a natural difference btw any two blades of the same design, but I am wondering if they are designed to play the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2015 at 1:51pm
If TB ALC vs ZJK ALC is the same way, ZJK will be slightly softer and slightly faster. That also makes it slightly bouncier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2015 at 2:39pm
Yes, I agree, there will be a transition period where it will even out between the two techs, maybe 10 years from now there will be as many players using Z composites as use A composites today.  And another 10 years after that we may see the majority of players using Z composites, unless something better comes along.  

Once pro players find something that feels good and works for them, it can be difficult for them to find the time to transition their game to something else.  Usually you will see the transition occur as your younger players embrace new tech.

For an analogy, look at how long it took Federer in Tennis to embrace a new racket.  It has led to a rebirth of his game, he is now more competitive again, but it took a while for him to find his feel and confidence.  He had been playing with the old racket for a long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aroonkl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2015 at 12:38am
Among Top Chinese US players, I think Liang Jishan and Ruichoa use IF ZLC. Zhang Kai, Shi Mingyu use Viscaria. (Anyone know what the rest use?)

Any comment or experience which one spinner or faster with H3.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/07/2015 at 9:59am
i think a lot of the us chinese still use TBS
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