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Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic |
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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You said you are on Primorac with H3 and looking for better control. Well, something is adding speed to your setup, cause otherwise it is already very controllable. I thought it must be glue or stretched sheet of rubber. Maybe guess was wrong :)
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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yes it is very controllable, but I think multiple layers of glue is just what EJs do thought yoj infered that from me being a small EJ
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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One last question regarding the Skyline 3-60... I don't know whether 2.0 or 2.1mm is better. 2.0 is more controllable and obviously slightly lighter, but is 2.0 too slow on an allround blade? You seem to have experience playing the Skyline 3-60
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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I am finishing second sheet of 3-60 and have 2 more in stock without any intention to change.
I play 2.1mm from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961827334.html On ALC it's a dream. If you are coming from tenergy, be ready for big difference. Not bouncy, not springy, you cannot put tricky spin by stretching topsheet. It's not a tensor. I never boosted it. You get what you want by compressing cake sponge. When I played allround blades I used to use STN or 729 08-ES (H45) on BH. STN sponge is also cake, but it is a blue one and it is harder. However, topsheet is elastic making it work for BH very well. Feeling of 3-60 on ALC is similar to STN on all wood.
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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RE: 2.0 vs 2.1 My rule is - when in doubt always go for thicker.
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Ok, weight... so here it goes:
My Hurricane Long 3 ST weighs 92g this was too head heavy for me, but I think it's mostly because of the large head and comparatively thin handle. my whole Primorac setup weighs 188.3g, but my Tenergy doesn't stretch over the whole surface area... But I think I would be fine with 188-192g Edited by dyfferent - 11/19/2019 at 9:01am |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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How is skyline 3-60 durability?
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Update: my Hurricane 41° weighs 52g with the glue layer x) and the T05 50g. The substitute sheet of H3Neo 2.15, which I'll use until the Skyline 3-60 arrives, only weighs 46g. I'll see how the weight difference plays out...
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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judging by Skyline and Hurricane rubbers' durability, it should be quite good. Don't know about the sponge though...
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5307 |
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my 3-60 weight 62 uncut and 44 cut |
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Hi,
I was in very similar place but I ended up on the other side of camp with the Acoustic (C.Pen). I’m in love with it and since then bought another (because I had a minor crack from an unfortunate event during match play- but later repaired myself). However, I still do wonder about the violin. As I am quite an athletic person, I wonder if the extra control the Violin supposedly offers would benefit my offensive game. The other thing that goes through my head is that I am pretty heavy on the spin game (aggressive looper). I’m just waiting for that day to try one... Regarding your rubber choices, I’m in a similar place with Skyline TG2 NEO for FH on one (and Provincial blue sponge -2.2, 40 deg on my back up) with my BH being skyline 3-60 (and Hurricane 3-50 on my back up). I’m in love with the S3-60. I have it at mid hard 2.1. It’s a very controlled and spinny rubber and I don’t intend to change it. I was hopeful for the H3-50 to be just a higher throwing, tad slower S3-60... but it’s way slower, less spinny and WAY softer. Maybe I got bit by the legendary-poor DHS QC? Perhaps it’s really a soft version in the mid package? I’m not sure... maybe someone else who’s compared both can enlighten us. I can’t wait to hear about your violin setup after a few hours of training and some matches. Good luck!
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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I never tried the Violin with tacky rubbers; those are generally slow and the Violin can use a bit of oomph from the rubbers but it's personal (I'm not that athletic...). My best sensations with the Violin are with the R47 because it's fast and so versatile, a bit like the blade itself. On that blade, the G-1 works wonders as well of course. Those 2 rubbers are in the low $30 when purchased in conjunction with the 3=4 discount, at least they were not a long ago.
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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It can take 100 hours of play. Then you can still keep it for more ... but if you put new rubber next to it, you will notice the difference. Top sheet gets polished and tackiness goes. Durability is similar to with hurricanes. given the funny price I don't bother after 100 hrs, just replace.
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers) Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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heard similar things about R47, but am pretty set on Chinese / hybrid rubbers...
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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Chinese rubbers will work well. Ma Long used Violin and then switched to Acoustic for a couple years .
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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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I also went for the heaviest blades that were available at that time. I think it’s good practice if you can handle it. With my experience between Neo vs. provincial (BS), I’m more of a fan for the more accessible Neo commercial variants. I don’t boost (but I also don’t feel like I need to with a 40 deg 2.2 BS), nor do I need any of the extra catapult from the provincial or national series sponges yet. I guess we will see if that changes in the future. |
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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yeah, leaning towards 92g / the heaviest as well. I don't know if I misunderstood, but there technically are no differences between commercial, provincial and national variants besides quality control (at least standard Orange Sponge) Although the difference between commercial and provincial is quite obvious, the difference between provincial and national is rather small. So there should not be any extra catapult (unless you're talking about different sponges only available in provincial/national variants).
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Yeah the top sheets are the same, the sponge is where it’s coming from. Blue sponge is quite different from the Neo in my experience as far as throw height and spin potential.
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Not too sure about H3 vs H3Neo though. H3 is said to be less elastic and more tacky. No official source though. Looking it up on the DHS website
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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UPDATE:
I ordered: Blade: Nittaku Violin FL LG in 92g or the heaviest available (the e-mail correspondence was confusing to me, listing ST and FL Nittaku Violins, when asked for a list of Nittaku Violin FL LG - hoping for the best ) FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Blue Sponge 40° 2.15mm black BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° 2.1mm red really looking forward to assembling the blade with those sick Nittaku Red-Black-Red Edge tape So this should definitely satisfy me visually. Now it only has to play as well as it looks Review of the setup following in about a week.
Edited by dyfferent - 11/20/2019 at 10:06am |
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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congrats and good luck! Be sure to post some pictures too :)
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1014 |
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we should always choose the heaviest we can handle, that 92g Violin might be a jewel, can't wait for the review, good luck!
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Agreed! It’s probably faster than my two 88g Acoustics!
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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Given that you want 92g (!!!) blade, what is the final weight you are expecting to play with?
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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I expect the DHS Hurricane 3 Neo provincial BS 40° to hopefully be lighter than 50g ~48g (156x149! instead of 157x150) and I hope for my Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° to weigh ~46g... With my blade weighing 92g, I hope for: 92g+48g+46g+5g (glue and edge tape) = 191g or similar. I think I would be finde with a 193g blade as well as with a 188g blade.
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fmarek
Silver Member Joined: 09/08/2018 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 525 |
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This math looks fine. The only thing that your rubber weight will be opposite - H3 will be lighter but 3-60 - heavier than you predict. But overall will still be the same :)
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729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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I think it’s a manageable overall weight. Stable blocking, momentous loops and drives. Wooo!
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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So... TT11 surpassed my expectations and delivered today
uncut sheets weighed in at DHS H3Neo 2.15 40° BS 66g (2 corners cut) DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard 62g (4 corners cut) and as expected the Nittaku Violin FL LG weighed 92g can't wait to get it assembled. first pictures following soon...
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DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
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dyfferent
Member Joined: 11/09/2019 Location: Deutschland Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Ok, this first impression is very incomplete, but I want to write it anyway.
I glued the Skyline 3-60 using 2 layers of revolution glue on both the blade and the rubber, and attached an old (but playable) H3 provincial OS 41°, which is a bit too mushy due to overtuning, to the other side of the blade using 1 layer of butterfly free chack pro. My H3Neo BS is still in tuning (1 layer of revolution glue 1 thin layer of Falco)... I immediately jumped into a league match, which - in hindsight - wasn't the best idea. Due to the harder outer plies, the rubbers felt more spinsensitive than usual. The backhand especially was really bad. Mostly, because I had an old T05 on it before, but also because the 3-60 is just far more sensitive to spin. Forehand was fine, but I still think the racket is a little more sensitive to spin overall. On the other hand, that spin sensitivity also let me serve and loop with a little bit more spin - it felt crisp. If I had to put a number on it, spin increased by about 2% for loops / slow topspins and about 5% on serves. Something that I noticed immediately is the decreased speed in countering and blocking. Especially warming up, I noticed that I could precisely measure how much power I needed to get the ball where I want it - eXxxTremely precise!!! That speed decrease however, cause my backhand to constantly go into the net when countering and when returning serves. As for backhand topspins: (if they hit) they were spinnier, but slower. I really needed to brush the ball. There were at least 4 backhand topspins over the 3 matches that definitely would have hit using a T05, but didn't due to the 3-60 being relatively unforgiving if you're not brushing the ball properly and "hit" too much. Well anyway, I think I played alright: lost double 2-3, lost first single, 2-3 won last single 3-2. If I had played with a sheet of Tenergy 05 or Rozena on my backhand (what I was used to) i can almost guarantee I would have won both the single and the double. There were just so many mistakes on my already bad backhand, that the T05 / Rozena usually forgave. I am really looking forward to blueing the H3neo BS Addition after a couple of minutes of brainstorming. The reason I chose TG 3-60 was because I play with a lot of spin and because my backhand stroke is somewhat long. those were pretty much the only upsides. The thing is, backhand is a lot more hitting in relation to brushing than forehand is... Downsides are: my backhand receive of long serves is horrible. My backhand short play is weaker than that of my forehand. I often am (slightly) out of position and dont have time for this pretty long stroke i use if I can, which is why I need a more forgiving rubber. I just need the flrgiveness and playing the 3-60 is doing it the hard way. Correct me if im wrong, but so far: FS:tg skyline 3-60 LF: Butterfly Rozena
Edited by dyfferent - 11/22/2019 at 8:44pm |
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DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
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