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Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic
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fmarek View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Addition after a couple of minutes of brainstorming. The reason I chose TG 3-60 was because I play with a lot of spin and because my backhand stroke is somewhat long. those were pretty much the only upsides. The thing is, backhand is a lot more hitting in relation to brushing than forehand is...
Downsides are: my backhand receive of long serves is horrible. My backhand short play is weaker than that of my forehand. I often am (slightly) out of position and dont have time for this pretty long stroke i use if I can, which is why I need a more forgiving rubber. I just need the flrgiveness and playing the 3-60 is doing it the hard way. Correct me if im wrong, but so far: 
FS:tg skyline 3-60 Cry
LF: Butterfly Rozena 

Well, producing spin with tensor is different than spin with dull Chinese sheet that is true.

From my personal experience - for new Chinese rubber to settle in 10 hours of play is required. For my brain to adjust - 20 hours of play. So, any decision before these timing marks could be misleading. I usually give myself 2 weeks where I just observe and learn. That is the reason I experiment on the secondary setup first, while keeping main racket as it was until decision is made.

RE: 3-60. It is up to you to decide. This rubber is perfect in a slow game around the net. If you are getting pops there hm ... maybe loosen your grip on receive. It will make a huge difference. 

Btw, I am just curious - 
- Put racket on the table and drop ball on it from 30 cm or so. How high it is bouncing back and how many times?
- What is weight of cut 3-60? 
- And what is weight of final racket setup?
729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2019 at 10:54am
I just attached the H3Neo BS to my forehand side, after one mild layer of tuning to break it in. The cuttings weighed 18 and 20g. So my H3Neo BS cut the 156x149 weighs 66-20g cuttings = 46g and my Tg 3-60 weighs 62-18g cuttings = 44g. 
My assembled blade weighs 190g
92g blade + 46g H3Neo BS + 44g Th 3-60 + 8 grams of glue and (pretty thick) Nittaku Edge tape, as well as tuning in the BS... 

Edit: thinking about it,  the cuttings also had glue on it, so the weight of the actual rubber is probably about a gram or so higher than my estimates... so:
47g H3Neo BS + 45g TG 3-60 + 92g Violin =184g racket + 6g of glue and edge tape


Edited by dyfferent - 11/25/2019 at 2:52am
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2019 at 4:51pm
Ok, so right upfront: this is going to be a lengthy review. I might even post this seperately as a review. 
The setup I'm reviewing is: 
Nittaku Violin LG FL 92g
DHS Hurricane 3 Neo provincial blue sponge 40° 2.15 black on forehand
Butterfly Rozena 2.1 red on backhand
I tore off my TG 3-60 after the first session, as there was no need in changing my backhand rubber. I am quite content with the Rozena afterall. Although the TG 3-60 is a great rubber in its own respect, it just does not suite my backhand. The weight of the whole setup is about the same maybe ~192g (going to weigh it later).
I tested this setup on several occasions, games, training, and so on. It did take some time to break it in, eventhough I tuned the H3Neo with a thin layer of falco long. Part of it might also be my transition from my old 87g Primorac.
Back to topic - the review:
Serves: 
Serves were as expected - very controlled and spinny. Although I must say, you have to use larger motions and wrist in order to get great spin. You don't get away with "flicky hick-hack"-serves. Just like with topspins with Chinese rubbers. The blades impact on my serving seems minor at best. It adds to the very controlled nature of the serves with Chinese rubbers.
Short game: 
The short game even surpassed my expectations and I give most credits to the very linear nature of the Violin. It just amazes me; after breaking in and adjusting my technique slightly, I get very controlled returns. Even long serves I am sometimes able to return short or half-long. The H3Neo is somewhat spinsensitive, so a wrong racketangle will be punished, but as someone already put it: "the output of this blade is exactly what you put in". Flicks aren't really my strong suite, so I don't feel like commenting on that.
Topspin:
Topspins are quite something. Slow spinny loops don't really get to the blade, but they are quite controllable and really spinny. The H3Neo (topsheet) is quite good at that, and so is the Rozena for my backhand technique. Backhand topspins from a distance are not quite as spinny but really controlled and have quite some speed, which might not be expected from the Rozena rubber. 
Now here it comes: Forehand topspins - both at the table but especially from a distance - are amazing. The combination of the blade with the blue sponged H3Neo has so much spin and kick, my ~2000TTR coach had trouble blocking my ~1400 topspins (2nd LG 3rd topspin popped up high until he adjusted, he also commented on the high amount of spin) Although, I have to add my technique is much better than my TTR might suggest. My problems lie elsewhere... so the BS version definitely shines here! 
Blocks/Countering:
Blocks and countering are both great! This is where the blade shines. The H3Neo is rather good at blocking, due to the slow speed and hard sponge, and the Rozena - although rather fast - is not as spin sensitive as other rubbers. Countering and assessing the power needed for a certain outcome is really easy, due to the controlled All+ nature of the blade

TL;DR: The blade excels at what it is made for. Countering and blocking. Also you get out of what you put into it. As for the rubbers, the blue sponged H3 (probably doesn't matter if Neo or not) is quite something at a distance or at high gears, while still keeping the other great characteristics of Chinese Rubbers. My backhand is pretty bad comparatively, so it is quite forgiving and profits off the All+ speed of the blade.

Might update this, but here it is LOL EJ virus might be cured Tongue


Edited by dyfferent - 11/28/2019 at 5:03pm
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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alas View Drop Down
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...cured for you and reset for others like me!!!

Congrats :) it looks like you’ve made a good decision. Thanks for the detailed review. I hope to hear more as the set up breaks in even further. 

So, the mid to far distance play doesn’t seem too slow for you yet, right?

Are you ditching your last set up for good? 
If you could say how much slower the blade is
In % what would you say?  Same question for control?


Thanks!
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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Points: 39 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 1:47am
The mid distance play doesn't suffer, but I have to put a disclaimer there... I am studying sports science and am pretty athletic, so Power was never the issue. I lack control and that's about it.
I hope that this setup will stay my only setup. The 5 g difference is noticeable, especially playing backhand topspins, but I think I will adapt accordingly. This is probably also why I don't lack too much or any power at half distance. The setup is quite heavy. Especially the 92g blade is above average weight. Blue Sponge might also have something to do with mod distance play, but my backhand is too weak for me to tell the difference. 
I'd say the blade is about 10% slower in general. Blocking and Countering ist definitely more precise and easier, but topspins and drive don't notice the slow down. I'd say for Forehand drives the blade is about 5% slower. Control is also a thing in mid distance play, you don't notice it too much there ~3-5%, but it can be adjusted to easily. As for short game Is say the decreased flexibility and increased control helped me a lot; about 10%. 
Overall the adjustment was slight and most noticeable in the blades strong suites. So short game Is amazing, while mod distance play doesn't suffer for me. The opposite is true, the blue sponge is definitely noticeable and the added control of the blade helps me estimate the power to be put into a shot accordingly. 
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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ALL+ at 92 grams makes it OFF :)
729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold.
DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1
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it’s probably faster than my 88g Acoustic!

Thanks for your insights on the comparison. What about spin vs. your last set up? The Violin is less flexible, right? Do you notice any difference in your ability to spin in your loops on FH or BH?
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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Right, it should be about Off- range. And about the spin: it seemed like it was less spin at first, but I think it is due to the harder outer layer. It just is somewhat less forgiving. But on slow loops and drives it doesn't really shine through. The only thing that might be slightly different are the serves. They tend to be more controlled in placement, but less forgiving in the creation of spin. Thing is, I am adjusting to it quite well, so it doesn't bother me, and I even feel like I create more spin now, but that might just be the rubber breaking in. I will keep you guys updated on how the setup develops over time. Should be getting even more accustomed to the feel and it should break in some more. 
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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[please delete]

Edited by alas - 12/26/2019 at 12:46pm
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Right, it should be about Off- range. And about the spin: it seemed like it was less spin at first, but I think it is due to the harder outer layer. It just is somewhat less forgiving. But on slow loops and drives it doesn't really shine through. The only thing that might be slightly different are the serves. They tend to be more controlled in placement, but less forgiving in the creation of spin. Thing is, I am adjusting to it quite well, so it doesn't bother me, and I even feel like I create more spin now, but that might just be the rubber breaking in. I will keep you guys updated on how the setup develops over time. Should be getting even more accustomed to the feel and it should break in some more. 
so... any updates on your violin!? Still loving it? Or have you moved on to something else
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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How does the Nittaku Violin compare to Butterfly Viscaria in terms of speed? How about spin potential?

Interesting thread!

I own a Nittakku Barwell, and I thought its quality was great.

FdT
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Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

How does the Nittaku Violin compare to Butterfly Viscaria in terms of speed? How about spin potential?

Interesting thread!

I own a Nittakku Barwell, and I thought its quality was great.

FdT
It is way slower than viscaria. It is noticeably slower than my primorac... But the spinpotential is quite high. Its outstanding characteristic is being linear and putting out what you put into it. Compared to that the viscaria is a rocket 
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Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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Two years later and I’m still intrigued by violin...anyone in the LA area using a Violin in Chinese penhold willing to let me try their blade out!?
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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or! Anyone willing to swap a Chinese penhold Violin for an Acoustic for a set amount of time? Say.. 1-3 months?

Or a straight up swap I would be interested in doing too. 
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO
DHS Skyline 3-60
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Hi!

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I genuinely think there is no way to tell which of these blades will suit anyone better unless they've tried them for a longer period. 

I agree

Quote I would say keep your current blade and just get some new rubbers.  These blades are far more expensive than a Primorac but that doesn't mean they'll play much better. 

Nittaku Acoustic with no carbon is just better than any blade... I tested maybe 50 blades and all the acoustic versions... the new SG Special is the best (I played with LG for 1 year, amazing too); I like Violin Carbon Inner but not too much as Acoustic SG, and will be testing Violin LG by the next weeks

I am also fan of chinese equipment philosophy!

Sorry, I dont know if Violin or Acoustic will be better for you...
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Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

...but I'm going to stick to all wood until I really need more speed

I am not trying to change your opinion, but for the completeness of this discussion I have to add one thing. I moved from all wood to ALC with idea to gain a bit of everything and especially, to climb one step in speed while keeping good spin (since blade is 5.8mm). 

Some time after I adjusted, a better player in the club took my racket, looked at handle (ZJK) and said something like "wow". He meant to cheer on the price, thinking it is ZLF. But I told him that it is humble ALC, simpliest of all. His reply shocked me - he said, "ALC, yes very good blade, good for defence". Put racket into my hand and walked away leaving me with my jaw opened. 
"Oh God", I thought. But then after three more months I realised that, he being not English speaker, meant to say "good for control".

ZJK (or Viscaria) ALC is not faster than Primorac. Simply not. Shorter dwell is due to koto layer, but no way it is faster. Enlarged sweet spot - yes. Allows you to comfortably play up to 2 more meters behind the table - yes. Faster? No. Long 5 is faster, but not because of ALC, I think spruce in the 2nd layer springs like crazy.

So, just for the record ALC is good enough once you move past ALL+ level.

I played with Viscaria for about a year... yes, it has a good control, it is good for blocking too, and for BH top, but Acoustic LG or SG allwood is way better: When I switched from Viscaria to Acoustic I started to beat players I hadn't beaten in 3 years: the blocks made a huge difference, and the fine touches on the table as well.

No other blade that I know of has so much control being offensive, and such a wide range of intensity of hits ... maybe except for the Miyabi ... but even so whenever I try other blades I return to my Acoustic happy. Next test will be Violin LG with Victas TDE and Rakza Z.
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I like the acoustic much more than the violin. The violin felt very stiff and hard to feel the ball for me whereas the acoustic was very receptive
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