Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Selling rubber that has been boosted
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Selling rubber that has been boosted

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Selling rubber that has been boosted
    Posted: 01/15/2020 at 9:29am
New rule.

If you are selling rubber on a blade (or used rubber) and that rubber has ever been boosted, you are required to disclose that to the buyer or your trading partner in your original ad post here.

Failure to do this going forward will be dealt with harshly.


Edited by Baal - 01/15/2020 at 6:42pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1526
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 2:49pm
IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the buyer (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the buyer in a PM)  

Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 01/15/2020 at 5:02pm
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

Feedback
Back to Top
piligrim View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 06/21/2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5292
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the seller (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the seller in a PM)  



agree
Back to Top
Antuan View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/14/2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 3447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 3:06pm
I agree of course. But it should be a normal and “ethical” behaviour of the seller.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

IMO, it should be mentioned directly in the sales ad, not just disclosed to the buyer (the current rule could allow a seller not to mention boosting in the ad, but only later to the buyer in a PM)  

OK.

See new wording.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2020 at 7:17pm
I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


Edited by Baal - 01/15/2020 at 7:19pm
Back to Top
Skynet View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2019
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 155
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skynet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 2:20am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


I was also going to ask what the reasoning behind this new rule is. Was there actually a specific case where problems arised that led to this rule, and if so, could you disclose some more details?
I'd like to point out that I also do not object this new rule. Personally I do not care much for boosting...but as we (almost) all know, many "contemporary" rubbers come factory boosted, or are we exclusively talking about rubbers which were boosted at home?
For example, if someone bought a set-up from TT11 (say a Tibhar Force Pro with Evolution rubbers), tested it for 7-8 hours and then decides that this set-up is not his cup of tea and wants to sell it here on the forum, would this person be required to mention that the rubbers were factory boosted and would likely shrink by a few mm if taken off of the blade?
As I said, most of us already know that the Evo rubbers are factory boosted, so what would be the point of specifically mentioning it in this case? If I go to a restaurant or cafe and order a coffee I expect the coffee to be hot (or a least warm); no need to mention to the waiter / the waitress that I'd like my coffee hot...



Edited by Skynet - 01/16/2020 at 2:21am
Back to Top
Antuan View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/14/2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 3447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 3:00am
Originally posted by Skynet Skynet wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I got an email from a relatively new member asking why I put in this rule.  Is a boosted rubber somehow "bad"?  He wasn't protesting this new policy, but he wanted to know the reasoning behind it.  I wrote a somewhat wordy response.  For anyone else who is curious about this here it is:

Whether you think it's good or bad, most rubbers are different after boosting.  They may be stretched, the sponge may be softer, and if the buyer wants to use his own booster am already boosted rubber may react differently than expected.  Some people think certain rubbers are pretty much unplayable unless they are boosted. Some people do it because they want to be "cool".   Some people won't care and some will but in any case it needs to be disclosed.

Some boosters put you right on the edge of VOC or thickness limits for tournaments.  That will depend on how many layers were applied, how much, which booster, which rubber, etc. etc..  So what if someone buys a blade with a heavily boosted rubber, doesn't know about it, and then his racket doesn't pass the check at a tournament or in a league event? People have a right to know if their rubber has been used in accordance with rules. 

I know there is a thread here about whether or not boosting is "legal" but IMHO it is a dumb thread, even though I contributed to its dumbness.  I personally disagree with the rule because it was unneeded, justified at the start by "alternative facts", extremely difficult to enforce and incredibly badly written.  However there is no question at all about what ITTF intended. And what they intended is that people shouldn't boost their rubbers.  Some people feel that it is therefore an ethical imperative and would never knowingly use a boosted rubber.  If they buy a blade with rubber, they have a right to assurance that it was not boosted.   

Based on a few transactions I learned about, it became clear to me that we need to protect our members here in transactions.

As someone else noted above, it really should have been obvious that you OUGHT to disclose this.  But it apparently wasn't.


I was also going to ask what the reasoning behind this new rule is. Was there actually a specific case where problems arised that led to this rule, and if so, could you disclose some more details?
I'd like to point out that I also do not object this new rule. Personally I do not care much for boosting...but as we (almost) all know, many "contemporary" rubbers come factory boosted, or are we exclusively talking about rubbers which were boosted at home?
For example, if someone bought a set-up from TT11 (say a Tibhar Force Pro with Evolution rubbers), tested it for 7-8 hours and then decides that this set-up is not his cup of tea and wants to sell it here on the forum, would this person be required to mention that the rubbers were factory boosted and would likely shrink by a few mm if taken off of the blade?
As I said, most of us already know that the Evo rubbers are factory boosted, so what would be the point of specifically mentioning it in this case? If I go to a restaurant or cafe and order a coffee I expect the coffee to be hot (or a least warm); no need to mention to the waiter / the waitress that I'd like my coffee hot...


We all know Baal is refering to the rubbers that WE boost personally, not factory boosted (which are practically all of tensor rubbers).
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2020 at 4:40am
To make things absolutely clear, I am talking about home boosted, not factory boosted.  

If you added booster after you received rubber from the vendor, then and only then you must disclose, also if you ever applied speed glue (extremely unlikely these days but I add it for thoroughness).9

Yes, it has come up, no I will not share details in this case.


Edited by Baal - 01/16/2020 at 4:46am
Back to Top
mon22 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/05/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2021 at 9:06am
Everyone doesn’t do this?

I’ve bought boosted and sold boosted rubbers before.

Boosting is ok guys, we are in a forum. It’s all good. 

Maybe they’re ashamed they boost? I know someone who always says boosting is cheating 
I am a total Newb. Come at me!
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2021 at 6:44pm
Mon22, read the rule more carefully.

It doesn't say you can't boost.  You are also allowed to sell rubber that has been boosted.

However, if you do this you are REQUIRED to disclose it IN THE ACTUAL AD POSTED HERE.  If the buyer doesn't mind (and as you say, many people won't mind) then go ahead and sell it.

Why have this rule?  I already posted the reason above, but your last comment says why.  Some people think boosting is cheating (and a strict reading of ITTF rules indicates that it is, and the fact that I personally think it is an idiotic rule doesn't change that fact).  Moreover, there actually are people who don't boost their rubber.  These people would not want to use a rubber that had been previously boosted and why you should not hide this from someone who might want to buy a used rubber.

In addition, boosting a rubber affects its durability. 

The ethical basis for this really ought to be obvious and I find it bizarre that anyone would object to it.  The fact that "we're all in a forum" has nothing to do with it.   

Indeed, I would advise members to be very cautious in making a deal with anyone who can't understand the basis for this.


Edited by Baal - 02/15/2021 at 6:55pm
Back to Top
mon22 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/05/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2021 at 3:17pm
Yes. I read it, thank you. 

What I was saying is, people don’t disclose this? It was a comment to personal experience. I’ve seen majority forum members that do disclose a boosted rubber for sale.




Edited by mon22 - 02/21/2021 at 3:18pm
I am a total Newb. Come at me!
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2021 at 2:28pm
I see what you mean now.

Yes, it turns out that most members follow the rules and it's amazing how few disputes we actually have.  But there were cases in the past before we made that rule where people didn't disclose so we had to make it specific. 


Edited by Baal - 02/25/2021 at 2:29pm
Back to Top
bozbrisvegas View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/27/2008
Location: Behind you
Status: Offline
Points: 3728
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2022 at 11:39pm
Anyone want a rubber for half the butterfly premiums but with more spin and speed please pm me.  

99% of you will love the superior spin and speed and not get caught out for using something that is near 4mm.  

Just Joking.  

I do believe everyone should know what they are buying.


Grubba Variant ALL
fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX
bh: tensor MAX
Watch me playing TT
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.