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D09c not tacky...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

To BTY’s credit: both T05 Hard and the Dignics series were excellent. Their production team makes great products regardless of how badly their pricing team gouges us!
so true, they are an advertising company more than a table tennis company. I'd do the same if I could so I can't blame them. The transition to the Dignics series after throwing the smooth T05 Hard bridge from the Tenergy era was so intelligently managed. Another smart script unrolled with mastery.

That is not what I implied at all. They are a great production company first.

Players never picked up on stuff like Bryce High Speed, despite all the advertising of new tech, etc. They also haven't picked up on the newer blades (like Hadraw series) despite their being marketed a lot more than Viscaria / TB-ALC.

Most players (pros or kids in clubs) prefer playing with Tenergy / ALC blades (till late, that is - before all this Dignics stuff came into fore) because those products are fantastic. No denying that. Even despite the fact that I've never been a fan of T05 - it has been the best rubber overall in the world for a long, long time.

And despite their array of newer products, that is where the bulk of their club-quality equipment production is focused on.
I endorse this message.  I do think that people who like all wood blades will like the Hadraw series.  It's more of a taste thing, but even for the price, people who use those blades will really like them if they want something for the plastic ball.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/02/2020 at 1:15pm
I think the best Butterfly rubber is Tenergy 05. And it will keep on being the best rubber for long time i think...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2020 at 12:32pm
https://youtu.be/GBCjQQVMoPw

Review of Dignics 09C no english sub
Blade: ZJ SZLC, Garayda 5000 Matador Texa
Rubbers: FH::Symmetry SP BH: Tenergy Hard, FH: MoristoSP ax BH: Tenergy Hard,FH:Desperado 2 BH: Omega 7 Asia   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2020 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by gatz gatz wrote:

https://youtu.be/GBCjQQVMoPw

Review of Dignics 09C no english sub
Sadly, all the reviews are in Japanese.  What happened to that one kid that was translating Japanese videos?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/05/2020 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by gatz gatz wrote:

https://youtu.be/GBCjQQVMoPw

Review of Dignics 09C no english sub
Sadly, all the reviews are in Japanese.  What happened to that one kid that was translating Japanese videos?


I was looking for one of his videos recently and it looks like he got shut down by youtube for copyright infringement. such a shame
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 1:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 9:29pm
I just glued a sheet of D09c and also found the topsheet not sticky at all.  

I did see that Japanese youtube review where it could lift the ball for 1 second.  I'm guessing it might be due to QC or temp/humidity variations, but I could NOT lift the ball even slightly.  

The "tackiness" can be felt when doing a ball bounce test like Dan from TTD in his review.  Also it can be felt if you are cleaning the rubber using your breath and the palm of your hand-- has a very grippy feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bokai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2020 at 11:53pm
After watching Dan's review on TTD, I feel that D09c is just an one layer boosted H3 rubber. Just alot more expensive. TBH, I was hoping for it to be faster than what I saw on the bounce test. However, this is a PROs rubber and they practise alot more intense and more in general than us. I will give this rubber a pass and keep my Dignics 05. In additionally, I believe when its humid the rubber will be VERY bad to play haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 12:56am
Originally posted by bokai bokai wrote:

After watching Dan's review on TTD, I feel that D09c is just an one layer boosted H3 rubber. Just alot more expensive. TBH, I was hoping for it to be faster than what I saw on the bounce test. However, this is a PROs rubber and they practise alot more intense and more in general than us. I will give this rubber a pass and keep my Dignics 05. In additionally, I believe when its humid the rubber will be VERY bad to play haha.
Funny you mentioned that about bad play with humidity.  That's why I stopped playing with Tenergy on the FH -- the play just got awful with high humidity.  On the other hand, Dignics has played very well with humidity.  I actually expect D09c to play really,really well with humidity.

Also, whatever D09c might be, my interpretation of Dan's review from TTD didn't really sound like boosted H3.  But I think we need to see more reviews.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BauerPower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 1:10am
I almost feel like D09c gets tackier as time goes on. I’ve only been at home hitting around with it in my living room, but now I can pick a ball up for about one second. However when I first put in on 10 days ago, I couldn’t lift it more than a fraction of a second. I don’t know if there is some tiny bit of oil residue or something that wore off. 

But I think it is a very good rubber.  I’ve played T05Hard for over a year, and I already like this better.  I’ve played unboosted H3 Provincial Blue Sponge for a few months before and the one thing I didn’t like was out of position and flatter shots had no power. D09c seems to fix this.  Can’t wait to play an actual match with it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 10:46am
Dignics 09c explained by Butterfly pro player Dang Qiu:

Life is too short for defensive play.

https://twitter.com/spinnier_com
fb.me/spinnier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 11:51am
Someone said in this post best rubber is Tenergy 05, I would say it was! If timo is using 09C on both sides then definitely 09C is currently the best Butterfly rubber! Based on some of the reviews and it being slightly improved T05H in my opinion, dig09C is probably a phenomenal rubber it just that it might take longer time to adjust and truly unleash its playing abilities etc. Just like 05H was different to me from all tenergy series, seems as 09C is different from all the Dignics series. If so many players are switching to it I would say it definitely is a great rubber. As far as looking at butterfly players both Timo & Ovtcharov are playing much better, hey not long ago Ovtcharov took down World #1 FZD using 09C I think that speaks for itself! I will buy it as soon as the Quarantine is over so I can play with it not just look at it :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tek101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2020 at 12:31pm
here is a nice comparison video between 09c and D 05

has English Subs


I am not a Butterfly guy (only equipment I have ever bought is a sheet of Speedy PO, Bryce, and a VSG-3000 Blade) but, this has me intrigued.... I might have to try a sheet of 09c
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bokai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2020 at 7:39am
Any rubber that is tacky is bad against humid weather IMO. But ofc its best to try it to get the best idea of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2020 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by bokai bokai wrote:

Any rubber that is tacky is bad against humid weather IMO. But ofc its best to try it to get the best idea of it.
I wonder if other people feel the same as you?  My experience is the opposite: all rubbers lose traction in humid conditions, but tacky rubbers do better than non-tacky rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bokai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2020 at 9:24pm
Moisture on tacky surfaces reduces the tack of rubbers because it acts like a lubricant on the top sheet. Hence, why I believe tacky rubbers are no good under humid weather. I tried commercial H3 (I have no care about national or provincial because they are all fake except for the ones the pros use) and I felt under humid weathers it just isn't reliable. Additionally, Chinese rubbers are not consistent anyway so IMO they are the worst rubbers under humidity. In regards to D09c, I assume (I haven't tried the rubber yet so I can only make vague assumptions) it will be better than Chinese rubbers under humid conditions because of the consistency of Butterfly products. However, I suppose its all down to personal feeling at the end LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote murrayblhrc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 1:53pm
I thought the 09C was shipping April 1.

Anyone receive and use? Can not find a review anywhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by murrayblhrc murrayblhrc wrote:

I thought the 09C was shipping April 1.

Anyone receive and use? Can not find a review anywhere.
Dan at Table Tennis Daily posted a preliminary review.  The problem is that since all the club around the world are closed, you can't really test it.  The most you can do is hit against a robot, which doesn't tell you much about a rubber.  I don't expect to see any serious reviews (in English) until clubs open back up again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tappie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 2:24pm
I bought a sheet on the 4th of april and received it a few days later. I have only practiced against a robot so I can only give some first impressions:

- the sheet I received is not really tacky. I would call it hybrid. It has not the tackiness of H3neo or Battle 2 but it’s grippier than mx-s or tenergy 05
- It’s a very hard rubber and quite dead on soft contacts but it’s easier to generate speed than traditional chinese rubbers.
- It feels like a very spinny rubber but I’ll need to play against a real opponent to verify this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 4:58pm
I tried it for 1 week. It is nothing you played or tried it before. It's name is dignics but does not have anything in common to the dignics series. It is fast very fast not any like Chinese rubber not even like spinart. It is very spinny specially on serves. It is super easy to lift bacspin. Counterlooping is a dream, you will feel yourself a pro just ripping anything that comes your way. Unlike Chinese rubbers it is very high throw that if you loop straight to the net you will have an arc with the ball. Control is bad specially if you play a dead ball or just put your hand without moving your wrist, it just goes down to the net. It is difficult to play with coming from tenergy. you will feel that if your shots that were escaping the net with tenergy would go long off the table with 9C, and balls that are supposed to go to the net just land on the table on the other side. Really a mind cracker if you played tenergy or mxp for a long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 5:42pm
Hi,

[As reported.]

Among the very helpful observations from Dan at Table Tennis Daily was a fine comparison he made in the written comments.  He stated that Tenergy 05 Hard is much closer in playing characteristics and feel to Tenergy 05 than it is to Dignics 09C.  The feel and play of Dignics 09C is very distinctive among the three rubbers.

Dignics 05 has a tackier topsheet than Tenergy 05.  Dignics 09C has a tackier topsheet than Dignics 05.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

[As reported.]

Among the very helpful observations from Dan at Table Tennis Daily was a fine comparison he made in the written comments.  He stated that Tenergy 05 Hard is much closer in playing characteristics and feel to Tenergy 05 than it is to Dignics 09C.  The feel and play of Dignics 09C is very distinctive among the three rubbers.

Dignics 05 has a tackier topsheet than Tenergy 05.  Dignics 09C has a tackier topsheet than Dignics 05.

Thanks.

There s a new rubber called Tenergy 19

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2020 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

[As reported.]

Among the very helpful observations from Dan at Table Tennis Daily was a fine comparison he made in the written comments.  He stated that Tenergy 05 Hard is much closer in playing characteristics and feel to Tenergy 05 than it is to Dignics 09C.  The feel and play of Dignics 09C is very distinctive among the three rubbers.

Dignics 05 has a tackier topsheet than Tenergy 05.  Dignics 09C has a tackier topsheet than Dignics 05.

Thanks.

There s a new rubber called Tenergy 19


Thanks.  

Embracing the assumption that Tenergy 19 will come to market (unlike Tenergy 09C which did not), it does prompt to mind the commitment by Butterfly to extend the Tenergy line in the Shiny New Era of Dignics.  With the clear trend of harder forehand sponges in the sport, it was reasonable and intelligent to release Tenergy 05 Hard to provide a Butterfly participant in this trend.

Were I have guessed, I would have guessed that Butterfly would not further extend the Tenergy line.  The Tenergy line is very rich right now.  With the Dignics arena open for expansion, it would be my thought that the major new product energies would be applied there.

[Again, assuming Tenergy 19 comes to market] The above discussion only reveals that I do not know Butterfly's strategic thinking.  In recognizing the standard retail marketing philosophy of targeting particular consumers with particular tastes, it reveals the Butterfly thought that a significant customer base exists and will exist for the Tenergy line, thus justifying yet another appealing option for them.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kunglao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/25/2020 at 8:09am
Tried the 09c for a few days on zjkszlc blade I’m a 2200 level player and played a few matches with it against 2400 level player. Here are my observations:

Not sticky but very grippy.
Needs some impact for the ball to move
Definitely better spin than d05 or d80
Blocks surprisingly well when used on the backhand
Serves better than all current bty rubbers ( except spin art imho)
Arc is very similar to t05
Overall very good rubber from bty. I will probably switch to it on both sides
Btw, I had boosted d80 on the other side. D80 is faster but has less spin quality.
My first loop with d09c gave more problems to my opponent compared to the boosted d80.


Edited by kunglao - 04/25/2020 at 12:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2020 at 10:08pm
Used it now - 1.9mm on both sides of a Carbonado 245 (which is a bit faster than my usual 145 and 45 blades where I use Tenergy 05 hard) - it definitely releases the ball more slowly than Tenergy 05 Hard.    That said, it enables you to hit a wider variety of shots with deceptive spin variation - I can play dummy loops and pushes much more effectively with this.  I suspect at some point Ma Long is going to stick this on his backhand.  I think a lot of good players are going to switch to this on their forehand because it just enables much better countering. when taking the ball early.  I think the big deal here is that the Dignics sponge makes this work really well.  I suspect that Tenergy 09C would be faster and you would lose some dwell that the Dignics sponge gives.

I would say that if feels like those less tacky Provincial or National hurricane rubbers but with a tremendous sponge.  Maybe a true Chinese tacky rubber lover will not like it, but someone coming from a Tenergy but needing a short game boost will really love it after some practice.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/08/2020 at 10:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2020 at 7:34am
Hi,

There are some subtle yet interesting things here.

I think the big deal here is that the Dignics sponge makes this work really well.
Isn't it the case that what we understand indicates that the Dignics 09c sponge is different than the Dignics 05 sponge, thus promoting in the above statement the qualification by stating ". . . is that the Dignics 09c sponge makes . . ."?

I suspect that Tenergy 09C would be faster and you would lose some dwell that the Dignics sponge gives.
The information we had available concerning Tenergy 09c suggested that it was in a earlier product development process than Dignics 09c, yet it was Dignics 09c that was released, not the Tenergy version.  This strongly suggests that Tenergy 09c will never be released, perhaps due to the phenomenon mentioned in the statement above.

Also as an extrapolation of the above line of thought; if Tenergy 19 does see the light of day, it will play distinctively from how Tenergy 09c did.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2020 at 7:52am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

There are some subtle yet interesting things here.

I think the big deal here is that the Dignics sponge makes this work really well.
Isn't it the case that what we understand indicates that the Dignics 09c sponge is different than the Dignics 05 sponge, thus promoting in the above statement the qualification by stating ". . . is that the Dignics 09c sponge makes . . ."?

I suspect that Tenergy 09C would be faster and you would lose some dwell that the Dignics sponge gives.
The information we had available concerning Tenergy 09c suggested that it was in a earlier product development process than Dignics 09c, yet it was Dignics 09c that was released, not the Tenergy version.  This strongly suggests that Tenergy 09c will never be released, perhaps due to the phenomenon mentioned in the statement above.

Also as an extrapolation of the above line of thought; if Tenergy 19 does see the light of day, it will play distinctively from how Tenergy 09c did.

Thanks.

I'm contrasting Dignics and Tenergy - while the Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is harder than the Tenergy 05, it is still a Tenergy sponge.  Same with the Dignics 05 and Dignics 09C.  The thing is that even with Dignics 05, when I tested it, I felt I had a speed issue - it is almost as if the ball wants to sink into your rubber even when you crash it really hard and you never got pure speed and power - you always got something that was controlled and spin oriented.  For a harder sponged tacky rubber, this behavior is more logical as your spin/power threshold is higher.  So with a Dignics sponge,  you don't need as much tack to get a similar response to what you desire in a tacky rubber.  Hope that makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2020 at 10:12am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

There are some subtle yet interesting things here.

I think the big deal here is that the Dignics sponge makes this work really well.
Isn't it the case that what we understand indicates that the Dignics 09c sponge is different than the Dignics 05 sponge, thus promoting in the above statement the qualification by stating ". . . is that the Dignics 09c sponge makes . . ."?

I suspect that Tenergy 09C would be faster and you would lose some dwell that the Dignics sponge gives.
The information we had available concerning Tenergy 09c suggested that it was in a earlier product development process than Dignics 09c, yet it was Dignics 09c that was released, not the Tenergy version.  This strongly suggests that Tenergy 09c will never be released, perhaps due to the phenomenon mentioned in the statement above.

Also as an extrapolation of the above line of thought; if Tenergy 19 does see the light of day, it will play distinctively from how Tenergy 09c did.

Thanks.

I'm contrasting Dignics and Tenergy - while the Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is harder than the Tenergy 05, it is still a Tenergy sponge.  Same with the Dignics 05 and Dignics 09C.  The thing is that even with Dignics 05, when I tested it, I felt I had a speed issue - it is almost as if the ball wants to sink into your rubber even when you crash it really hard and you never got pure speed and power - you always got something that was controlled and spin oriented.  For a harder sponged tacky rubber, this behavior is more logical as your spin/power threshold is higher.  So with a Dignics sponge,  you don't need as much tack to get a similar response to what you desire in a tacky rubber.  Hope that makes sense.

If you are used to playing with Hurricane 3, Dignics 05 is quite fast in comparison. I'm currently playing Dignics 05 Backhand and boostedH3 Provincial on the forehand. The difference is quite a lot. If you use h3 technique with Dignics on your forehand, its honestly a monster with loads of power. Im imagining D09c to be a beast. However, being jobless, I'm not even going to consider it. Rakza Z however, is in my budget. I wonder how it compares?


Edited by ericd937 - 05/09/2020 at 10:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2020 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The thing is that even with Dignics 05, when I tested it, I felt I had a speed issue - it is almost as if the ball wants to sink into your rubber even when you crash it really hard and you never got pure speed and power - you always got something that was controlled and spin oriented.

IMHO, from my limited experience (7 months and 2 blades), while looping, D05 feels more powerful when you use a harder blade that promotes spin generation by penetration of ball into sponge (like TB-ALC) than a softer blade that promotes more brushing (like HL5).

I am going to try D09C / D05 combo on something a bit harder than TBALC.

This is D09C reviewed by a high level H3 user. They mention in the notes below the video that H3 BS Provincial 41(!, presumably boosted) is faster than D09C.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/09/2020 at 4:16pm
a bit off topic: in slevin's video, is the guy with the orange shirt looking like a former PH player who switched to SH? especially in his fh looping stroke?

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