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do you pivot after a BH opening loop |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 01/06/2021 at 9:29am |
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I actually get this scenario quite often, after a reasonable quality BH opening loop or chiquita gets successfully blocked back to my BH. It's generally very difficult for them to go down the line because of the sidespin on the ball and also because of the quality of the shot.
Should I train to pivot on this ball or continue using BH? I feel like pivoting is much stronger and I can often finish the point directly, but there's the risk of being jammed or the FH pivot being blocked to the open FH (which often means losing the point lol) But continuing to use BH would just result in 50-50 topspin rallies on the BH end which is irritating coz regardless of my shot quality it's quite difficult to outhit my well trained opponents.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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With my medium pimple, it is quite easy to block down the line or even hit a backhand opening loop from the opponent. Then, if he likes pivoting, he will think about it twice before doing it again. Also, when you pivot, you'd better kill the point because all the space is open for the opponent. To me, pivot must be used 1 or 2 times a game.
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Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Have you tried aiming the back opener more to their forehand side, to direct it closer to your forehand? Even though I use long pips on the backhand, I will try directing the ball closer and closer to their forehand side or middle until I find a weaker area. This makes it easier to step around without having to move so far, depending on what their strength is
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Valiantsin
Super Member Joined: 05/21/2020 Location: OFallon Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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With medium is even harder to control that forehand attack from your opponent than with sandwich. If he really hits hard - you barely can return - not speaking about some direction changes.
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Predictability would get you nowhere. You can't pivot all the time, neither can your opponent go BH to BH all the time, as that would also leave his FH and middle open.
I try to pivot when I expect the ball more towards the middle. I prefer not to pivot as that leaves the FH open.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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It is a lot harder to loop down the line due to the reduced distance especially on serve receive when the spin is a bit unclear. Cross-court I can produce a much stronger shot with more stability. But second shot is like free for all, I can do whatever I want haha... Some ideas are switching down the line with the BH aka Harimoto style, or continuing to hammer their backhand diagonal with another powerful BH, or just pivot to finish the point (Ma Long style)...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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I´m trying something new: open with BH (to his BH), pivot and quickly come back to neutral position.
It´s a kind of feint to make my opponent give a ball to my FH.
Edited by TT newbie - 01/06/2021 at 7:40pm |
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alas
Member Joined: 02/09/2019 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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I would try to angle my chaquita wide into their BH (assuming RH vs RH) so you open up a safer down the line shot (wide FH them now). Someone fast might get there, but the quality wouldn’t be that great so you could potentially get back to your forehand if necessary and move them back to Bh.
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-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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A random thought... Are you quick enough to make the wide ball consistently and recover after the pivot if and when it comes back?.
Edited by ghostzen - 01/07/2021 at 3:12am |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Probably not if it comes to the wide FH, yes if it's blocked back to the middle. But usually I use 100% max effort in the pivot and it doesn't come back very often, the win % is significantly higher than my BH at my level once I manage to get the FH in.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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The reason I asked was when playing better players it will come back at a higher percentage than expected. Which means you will need a plan A and B with some quality.. If that makes sense.
Edited by ghostzen - 01/07/2021 at 4:20am |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Hmm against the better players I actually really struggle in the BH - BH diagonal battle (they're just way more consistent than I am), I make more points when I pivot to get the strong FH in. Maybe it's a sign that I should work a lot harder on my BH skills :(
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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hmm all that I would mention is if you are almost hanging around to pivot for your stronger forehand to get into play you can kind of let the other player know that BH to BH they are likely stronger and when you pivot it's almost quite expected. Also most players will pin you wider BH making it harder to make a good quality forehand pivot and wait for the tell then switch down the line. random ...but bear with me! There's a term called Kuzushi in martial arts which in basic terms meaning to break someones balance. Push or pull them one way then make you unstable then take the opening almost. With the stronger backhand you will be less off balance. When I think of this type of thing I think Quadri Aruna a bit to be honest. Massive massive forehand but can becomes quite easy to read. that's a very very simple breakdown i totally know Think putting some quality on the backhand is a totally wise idea to be honest . Also having a strong backhand is a massive weapon to keep you on balance and off balance the other player. That way you will complete better when you play the stronger players in your group. Cheers |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Actually I just looked at the TTBL youtube and found a good example of Aruna playing.. I was actually looking for the Steger Videos at the weekend!. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7yrWFeBX2Q Have a look and see what you think and also if my point is valid from the Aruna match. He seems to get caught alot. I think it might be a bit more valid than watching Ma Long and the other top 5 or so as you and I will never ever be that quick!
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Yeah true... gotta work harder on that backhand.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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It will make you more of a complete player
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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The answer is always - it depends on the opponent. If an opponent can't control your forehand, then there is no reason for him to see your backhand. But if an opponent can bring back your forehand, then you need to rally to get a better shot.
But it is always better to be able to introduce your best weapon earlier and earlier in the point if it is scoring than to save it for a shot in the point that may never come.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Agree the knockout blow is best NL if it's that end of rally winnner . Most of TT is played with not many actual rally points. Why extend the point any longer than needed 100% with you on that. Also when you get a bit older running around and playing forehands isn't a goer all the time. The bones don't like it! My thinking was when trying to step up levels which Blah is and improving and playing stronger players. Train the pivot to get the knockout blow so to speak but also don't ignore the weakness on the backhand side so closing the hole as well. If that makes sense kind of. I might not have explained it well to be honest. If you have fewer weaknesses lot less to exploit. I've seen so many players leave things out like that and then play almost catchup a bit. Blah has time to practice lucky bugger !! |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14847 |
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No disagreement here, ghostzen. Developing all your skills long term is always the goal, especially if you are lopsided, as it makes you less vulnerable to players below your playing level. For a match tactic, you can lose trying to play a balanced game the same way you can lose trying to play an imbalanced game - you just need to do what is winning points and expand your options. For a growth tactic, build all aspects of your game while trying to introduce your strongest weapons in your practice and matches.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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NL no probs here at all my friend . Just trying to explain my rational and also always great to here your views. All the best Cheers |
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obesechopper
Silver Member Joined: 04/20/2011 Status: Offline Points: 839 |
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Only real solution is to slap on some OX LP and get it to that forehand!
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I actually tried using LPs and they were insanely hard to use unlike what ppl told me....the feeling in the hand was just completely different, and the ball died in the net way too often. On the other hand I tried both sides SP and i could play quite well with it already without much training haha....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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That's actually a pretty good way to think about it... I feel like I drop quite a few points in level if I started to use more backhand. But if I don't use the BH in matches then it'll never improve. Chicken and egg I guess
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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