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Critique my game! |
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Posted: 07/31/2011 at 2:47pm |
I'm the one in blue. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on improving my game. My forehand always seems to bother me. It doesn't seen fluid or something...Thanks, Jim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjRyPEwnsHQ |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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It just seems that way because it's only half a stroke... You never return your arm ready for the next forehand, then you run out of time and cant do anything but hit a jabbing backhand :). This means you wont ever have time to hit two attacking forehands in a row near the table and it's making you play much further from the table than you should need to.. which then gives you less angles and less chance to win the point.
It should be easy to fix, just force yourself to have your arm returned and ready to hit another forehand long before the ball comes back. Then your forehand will look normal :) and you'll be able to attack more with your forehand rather that resorting to a weaker backhand.
Watch the guy you are playing, his loop continues around until it's coming back to where it started, not saying his is ideal, but it is a more continuous and fluid motion. I probably don't know what I'm talking but that's my theory |
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JBurn244
Super Member Joined: 04/17/2011 Location: Kansas City, MO Status: Offline Points: 142 |
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Jim,
Where are you from? That gym looks very familiar. That couldn't be the Overland Park Athletic Club in Overland Park, KS, could it? |
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ttrastott
Super Member Joined: 05/18/2011 Location: Galway, Ireland Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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yeah bluebucket is right As if you stopped in the middle of each stroke and didnt finish it fully. One more negative thing :) Receiving serve seems to be bad. Now some positive thing :) When you were in an open rally it was nice to watch Seemed consistent from both sides Nice forehands as well as backhands I wouldnt mind to watch more than you uploaded
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Donic Waldner Senso Carbon
FH Tibhar Genius Sound MAX BH Tibhar Genius Sound MAX |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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You look like you play a bit better than I, so take my observation with a grain of salt, but:
It seems that your forehand might feel awkward because, much like bluebucket said, you're not returning to a ready position that facilitates a forehand stroke. You seem to take a forehand stance when performing an opening loop, but if a ball goes to your backhand you (rightfully) take a backhand stance... but the problem seems to be that after executing that backhand stroke, you stay in that backhand position. That is, you stand squarely at the table and even your arm is biased toward a backhand. If a ball goes to your forehand in such a position then you're essentially in your own way and a forehand will feel awkward. Just my two cents... and a grain or two of salt... and a mixed metaphor. Edited by Anton Chigurh - 07/31/2011 at 4:50pm |
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Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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I thought that you had a nice fluid style on both sides. In fact I was surprised when I realised that you lost the game.
It was just a matter of tactics. You gave up the table too easily and played some nice strokes that were too easy to return from that distance.
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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
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chu_bun
Silver Member Joined: 02/22/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 821 |
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I think with some added racket speed (swing more aggressively), you will be a killing machine. Take a goo pack with caffeine 5 mins before the game and you should beat the other guy.
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Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH.
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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Definitely back off too often. One point you backed off for no reason and then lost the point. If you can add some power, you can be quite deadly. It might be physical limitation though?
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Awesome comments folks! I appreciate the input and help. Yes, I play at the Athletic Club of Overland Park. It's amazing how much different you play in your mind, and what you really see on camera. It is helpful to watch yourself, and get good coaching advise.
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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You play for Germany or for Russia? |
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I play with a Nittaku KVW blade with Fury rubber. I haven't played a sanctioned tournament in maybe 8 years or so, but my rating was about 1680 at the highest. I'm really going to work on consistency. No matter how good I play, I always seem to miss more shots than the other guy; a lot of times, just enough to come out on the short end. I think I will also tie a rope from my waist to the table and keep it at a short distance for drills! Great comments on my forehand,everyone. I also seem to curve over the ball at the end of my forehand sometimes. Not sure why, almost like I start too low for the stroke and then 'curve over' it to compensate and try to contact more on top of the ball. It looks like Micheal Maze kinda does that, but not many others do. Anyway, I'm psyched for more practice now!
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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At the risk of running contrary to everyone, I don't think your problem was your forehand -- I think it was your backhand. It is true that you tend to leave your arm extended at the end of FH loops, but since you're playing mostly at mid-distance that shouldn't be a problem. I saw a lot more errors from your BH side. Also, I saw where you got stuck in a BH mode, hitting repeated backhand shots from mid-distance. Once you're that far aware from the table you should be able to step around to your forehand. If I were recommending changes, I would say: don't back off the table quite so quick, don't get so stuck on using your backhand, and practice your backhand more. |
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Tinykin_2
Silver Member Joined: 01/30/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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Just to add. He's a big guy like me so needs big guy tactics.If he has a significantly more impressive FH than BH, he will be using his BH >70% of the time. Why? Because that's where his opponents are going to concentrate. From experience using FH from BH corner is a big drain on energy so it can't be a main tactic for people like us. As you said he needs to develop his BH a bit more so that he can force opponent to put the ball where he wants it and at the right pace. Look at videos of good, fat players eg. Wiggy(APW46). They tend to have soft spinny BH that they use to set up their FH. I'm not saying this right. I'll try again, If you spin the BH rather than hit, the ball takes longer to travel to and back from the opponent. Thus more time to recover.
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Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V
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Vassily
Silver Member Joined: 12/22/2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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Both players seemed to really like reversing from the table into what I
would consider to be long (rather than medium) range. It seems
your opponent reversed even faster than you! Most long range players
need fast footwork to cover everything with the FH, but for you physical
limitations may force you to use your BH. The intelligent opponent will
therefore aim at your BH, and you will find yourself doing many long
range BHs. Any strategy involving many (esp low, impacty, short-stroke)
backhands is quite unreliable and makes things
really difficult for yourself. I must congratulate you on your landing
percentage though :P! So I doubt it was the shots that were the problem,
they were actually really nice, mainly the strategy.
Also, your opponent was also far from the table, but if he had camped the table more, you would probably have had serious movement problems because he can have better angles. The other thing I noticed was a lack of third-ball direct winners (this looks like a full, not highlight vid?). Maybe both people backing off fast made a difference, but you seemed to loop at similar mediumish pace into his FH most of the time, and he was ready for it and counterlooped, and then you both duked it out long range. This is great fun, but possibly not the way to go about winning points. So varying the pace and position is best. Perhaps you can try a slower spinny loop (say to his BH), then when this particular opponent auto-reverses, he will have to take it lower and spin it up more (kinda tricky on the BH), and then you can stay at the table and nail him. If you are doing into both-sides long range rallies, I personally find that sidespin really ruins opponents. The pros tend to use angles, but not all of us are accurate enough to hit the short angles. But all of us can hook! Fade is trickier, unless the ball is too close and you do the falling over thing, but I doubt you want to do that. |
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Nittaku Acoustic FL T05 Acuda S2 2.0mm
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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Some good suggestions there, I would add maybe slow the game down rather playing into this players hands by running and serving quick (you may have because of vid time I guess) but staying at the table and working on stratagy will help you style
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
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chu_bun
Silver Member Joined: 02/22/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 821 |
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You just need to be more aggressive (just get some caffeine in your system and get a little bit angry then you will stop backing up from the table). The way you swing now, I think you can swing a lot faster without hurting your consistency. The added spin may even help your consistency. By the way, you should not be fare from 1680, or even higher, compared to the people I play with.
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Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH.
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Antiq
Silver Member Joined: 06/30/2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 732 |
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1) stop moving away from the table. Get your friends to remind you... Once you are near the table, you can take control and be offensive.
2) you need more power in your stroke.. eg. short swing but apply power upon impact.
If you can improve on the above, I think you can beat the same guy easily... Just my suggestion...
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I love cheap and good blades that suit my game...
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bonggoy
Super Member Joined: 11/18/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 475 |
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Here's a critique. Your forehand is fine. It's not textbook Chinese style forehand developed after hours and hours of training, but it works for you. I WOULDN'T change anything. Your forehand, backhand works well together. Plus you move really well and gets to the ball.
Work on tactics. Maybe staying a little closer to the table. But I wouldn't worry myself on the latter if it screws up your timing. Does Parvis play in your area? If you know or have seen him play, he doesn't have a textbook forehand loop. Some would say ugly looking. It's not pretty, but it works. On a side note. There is something wrong with that video. It looks like the video speed is a tad faster. Compare that with your other video, http://youtu.be/SibhRphLo88, everything seems to be a lot slower. Edited by bonggoy - 08/01/2011 at 4:15pm |
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I'll have to check the video, it came off of a camera. Yes, Parvis plays at our club. He is very consistant with his FH. It looks like a lot of arm/whipping action. He is also very good at changing directions. On a side note, he has a nice reloop off-the-table BH that looks sweet.
Everyones FH loop looks somewhat different as far as our club players; everything from short - yet effective & spinny loops, to huge swinging ones. After seeing myself, I look very stiff, almost like there's a cast on my arm. I am getting some spin, but it doesn't look natural. Even so, I realize from all the feedback that my biggest issue is falling back too far. I'm going to work on staying closer, and also the basic 'fundamentals' for the FH loop (legs, waist, relaxed arm..) and then try to add more power once I get more consistant.
It's fun to back up and counterloop, which is what my friend in this game likes to do, but in reality you can reek havic on someone by playing angles if they can't move fast enough at a longer distance. We have a 1900 something player at our club that barely moves his feet let alone move away from the table, and he beats the crap out of me on nothing but speed and angles. Not much fun unless you can open with a strong loop to get him to blocking. Sometimes I ask him if he even breaks a sweat.
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Nittaku KVW, Killerspin Fury
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bonggoy
Super Member Joined: 11/18/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 475 |
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You do use your legs and waist when you loop. Maybe not as much as someone who is in a better physical condition or who trained specifically for it.
I have the same problem like you now. I am little older and slower. I can't the loop that I was thought to do 20 years ago. I can't even play the kind of game I was thought back then. I have to make do. You have your answer in your previous post. Work on angles, placement and spin. Take off a little speed. You will get better results that way without drastically changing your mechanics. Your initial distance on your first two shots are fine. It's when you keep backing up. There were several instances where you totally whipped your backhand because you were too far from the table by that time. Your side to side move is pretty good. Maybe work on coming forward? We know you've mastered the going back part. :D How do you plan on working on relaxing your arm when looping? Edited by bonggoy - 08/02/2011 at 9:50am |
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I'm probably too overly critical about my forehand. I do still curve around the top of the ball sometimes on the follow through which has been pointed out to me. I think it's from letting my elbow move away from my body during the stroke.
Hitting the ball to late and then compensating by 'curving' over the ball (to contact more on top) might be what's going on. I know I need to contact it slightly 'in front' and not on the side. The mirror thing sounds like a good idea for shadow practice. |
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Nittaku KVW, Killerspin Fury
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gatorling
Super Member Joined: 06/09/2010 Location: Florida, USA Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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From a technical aspect:
Just a preference on the FH but I'd want to use more hip. I believe that agressive arm looping is just asking for an eventual shoulder injury. I also believe that you get more spin using a more relaxed arm and driving with your hips and shoulders rather than arm. Other than that, you have a tendency to freeze after making a FH stroke. Faster recovery would help you a bit. Your timing is good, you wait for the ball to dip a little and then really load on the spin. From a strategic aspect: Seems like both of you enjoy loop-to-loop a little too much. Most shots go down the center or directly to your opponent. Try to get better angles even if it means sacrificing a lot of speed. Don't be so eager to back off the table. I'm a strong believer that the short game is incredibly important, especially when setting up your first attack. If you can force an opponent out of position AND return a long ball using a good push - then your attack has a higher chance of zipping right past them. |
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jwendt2003
Member Joined: 11/16/2010 Location: Kansas City, Ks Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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Relaxing the arm as much as possible seems to work. During a looping drill today, I hit against a very consistant penhold blocker. I think the only shots he missed were when I tried really relaxing my arm and using mostly legs & waist. He said they were faster, I can't tell how much, but they seemed to be passing him before he could get his block in place. Using the waist more also guarantees a more horizonal swing path, which I suffer from lack-of. All of this is probably common sense, but I've always tightened up too much on FH loops, which usually just snaps the forearm, and if there's little waist rotation, it makes for a more vertical swing path. I also tried staying closer; amazing where the top-of-the-bounce really is! Practice - Practice - Practice...
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Nittaku KVW, Killerspin Fury
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