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Hugo CALDERANO x Timo Boll |
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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then you are very wrong. Steger did complain about tan ruiwuˊs serve during a match as tan hid the serves with his shoulder. Steger did lose the match and you can watch this match on youtube. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=us3G7mVWy4o watch the above video from 5:00 onward. you notice that Steger did complain about tanˊs illegal serve and tan denied it. Steger definitely lost the match because of tanˊs illegal serve. Tan is another illegal server just like xu sin. I just dont have any respect for players with illegal serves as it is cheating and having an unfair advantage over the opponents. Edited by jackwong23 - 10/21/2014 at 12:47pm |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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By that standard about half of the players on the ITTF tour are cheating.
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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no. there are only 3 main culprits out there - xu sin, tan ruiwu and this hugo kid who are blatant offenders. The worst of the rest are only borderline offenders Edited by jackwong23 - 10/21/2014 at 12:56pm |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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I would have to agree with jackwong23 here. In TT, umpires do not have much power over the players and they really need to enforce the rule more. There is also this kid: 3:01 Yu Ziyang. Probably more of a cheater than the illegal servers. His arrogance and disputing the point after it clearly did not land made me hate him the most of out all players out there. He knew it did not land, his face said it all and then he put his racket down... but decided to contest it. Shame shame shame. This is why refs need video replays and more service rule enforcement. Edited by DreiZ - 10/21/2014 at 1:23pm |
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ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
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By the way, is this Hugo kid bronze medal in the youth Olympics?
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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What was the refs opinion of the serve? Oh they didn't have a problem with it and deemed it to be llegal? Then that's the only opinion that matters. In the tournament standings and in the pocketbook. No sense in getting all worked up over it. Best you can do is state your case (I have no problems when I see people do it on any level), adjust to whatever the final verdict is and play on from there. Simple.
Edited by suds79 - 10/21/2014 at 1:16pm |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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i think boll lost cos he coouldnt return well hugo'serves and he blocked soft most of the shots and not the first time i see that boll is trying to be a nice guy playing a young player, in some shots boll power was too much for hugo but boll is too pasive, boll has been safe returning harder loops of the chinese squad and i think he played bad this kid
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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I don't care for this Hugo guy's backhand. He looks completely twisted and awkward and unnatural, much like Dimo, although in a different way.
All umpires, US and international, do a pathetic job of enforcing the serve rules. Absolutely pathetic. They would rather have a nice and peaceful match where both player are left to cheat than enforce the rules against both of them. I don't think that a serve against the rules is legal only because an ump didn't call it. Taking advantage of a spineless ref is a lowly tactic and should be recognized and humiliated. I also don't agree that the opinion of players who often protest should be discounted. Such people are more valuable than the rest of the sheep-like player population. Most people dislike and avoid confrontation, its unpleasant. I much respect the people who stand up and defend themselves even at a public place.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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I agree. His form almost looks like he is flailing his arms all the time. Not compact at all compared to Timo or CNT. And yes, much like Dima, I was just thinking that as well. You said it right assiduous. Most players should voice their opinion but some do not as they care for their overall image. |
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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Yes. this is another unsportsmanlike kid I hate to watch alongside xu sin, tan ruiwu and hugo. And I almost forgot about him. Most of the unsportsmanlike players if you notice are from china. Maybe they were taught from an early age to have an win at all cost mentality, even allowing one to forsake his honesty and guidance of the conscience during table tennis matches. Edited by jackwong23 - 10/21/2014 at 1:58pm |
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bbkon
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same goes for niwa, playing to lee jun woo the umpire asked niwa if the ball hit the edge and niwa was silent
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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These young kids these days have no respect for the game!
SHAME |
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Tommy16
Silver Member Joined: 01/13/2009 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 745 |
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I wouldn´t put Calderano and Yu to the same page. I really can´t see any unsportman behavior in Calderanos game. From the angle that the mach against Boll was filmed doesn´t tell if his serves are wrong or not. And even if they are and nobody tells him that he might not know that they are wrong. Boll played a really poorly and Calderano played really well, that´s all.
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What is the point of playing safe shots when you can miss with style
My feedback: http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67171&KW=&PID=811763&title=tommy16-feedback#811763 |
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NextLevel
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Especially the very best ones. The only guy who serves in front of his body mostly is Samsonov and maybe Dima. The rest hide the ball to some degree. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Ma Long is as far from vertical as Hugo Calderano. Michael Maze also on regular pendulum. Those are just the guys who come to mind. Most players in fact. The guys who mostly serve with reverse pendulum are out front only because it is biomechanically impossible any other way. All of these players' livelihood depends on how well they play, serves being an important part, and it is not just the youngest players who may be pushing the limit. Most importantly, they are not the ones responsible for calling illegal serves. They are also not the ones who implemented this miserably designed rule change. So if they are not getting called, the only assumption they can make is that the serve is legal! It is not fair in that case to ask them to make any change if they are not getting called. Any comment that they "lack respect for the game" reflects a lack of respect for these players and what they have to go through to try to make a living in this underfunded sport. To me it means about the same thing as "get off my lawn!!", and "these kids these days".....
Direct your venom to the right people -- the umpires. (Also the ITTF for making this unnecessary rule change in the first place). * lying about whether a ball hit an edge or bounced twice, that is another matter. |
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Timo1978
Silver Member Joined: 05/20/2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 833 |
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+1 I could not agree more. Calderanos serves were not hidden. The camera angle makes many members thinking they were but this was not the case. I was sitting in the second row with nobody in front of me last Sunday, about 5-6 metres behind the table on the right and had a perfect view. Last Sunday Boll just did not play well enough against Calderano. If you take a look at Skachkovs serves he does not toss the ball straight up, he throws towards his direction to the left Corner. As Long as People are looking out for "forbidden" things they mostly find some issues if they search long enough for "mistakes" |
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Baal
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Also, whoever made the comment that it is mostly only Chinese players who have bad sportsmanship has --- issues. Funny on a thread where Bastian Steger is mentioned. Shibaev? Ever watch Michael Maze lose his mind? Were WLQ and KLH ever anything other than beyond reproach in their play? Can you stand the choing of the Romanian woman? Seriously.
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Ringer84
Silver Member Joined: 04/12/2014 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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110% agreed. The service rule in table tennis is so stupidly forumulated that it might be one of the dumbest rules I've ever encountered in any sport. Table tennis is the only sport I can think of which requires a referee to make his judgements based on what he thinks ANOTHER HUMAN BEING can see, rather than determining what he sees through his own eyes and worldview. I can't think of any such similar rule in any of the major sports out there. But I've complained about this is another thread already, so I don't want to go on a huge tangent. If I was playing professional table tennis for a living, you better darn well believe that I'm serving that thing as close to my body as I can until the referee starts calling it. This is competition. This is war. We are here to win. Blame the ITTF for forumulating a rdiculous rule that is not even remotely enforceable, not the players. |
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Baal
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I watched this. Two things. First, it is true that Tan's serves are close to the edge. At first glance, I thought, I would call those illegal if I was an umpire. But then, from that same camera angle (after they switch sides), when you watch Steger serve, it also looks hidden, to me pretty much equally so. Second Steger is complaining about everything in that match (as is usual for him when he is losing). It is not obvious at the 5:00 mark that he is complaining about a hidden serve, for example when he throws his paddle on the table. That may be what is happening but it is very far from obvious, especially given the context of his complaining about missing so many shots leading up to that. Unless you were there and heard what he was saying, and saw what happened in between points (edited out of that clip) you would not know what was actually happening. Of course, you could imagine that is what he is complaining about, but it is equally likely that he is just pissed off that he missed a serve. I get pissed off too when I play badly or stupidly, so I feel where he is coming from. So I don't accept this as evidence for what is claimed. |
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Baal
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The newest version of the rule says that it is the responsibility of the player to make it absolutely obvious to the umpire (who is not seated in the optimal position) that he/she is serving legally. At the end of the day, the umpire has to call it when he/she is in doubt about legality. This sets out clearly who is responsible for what.
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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But Baal. Tan was born in China! So naturally he must be a bad sport who likes to hide his serves. Must be taught that or something. Don't you know? |
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Ringer84
Silver Member Joined: 04/12/2014 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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Except that adding that clause accomplished absolutely nothing. There is always going to be that thin line where it may or may not be "absolutely obvious". Again, the problem stems from asking the umpire to do something which is not phsycally possible (make a judgement call based on what you perceive another human being sees). Either back to allowing hidden serves or force the serve to be visible to both umpires, please. It's the only way. Seriously. |
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Baal
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My last thought on this (already badly hijacked) thread. With new balls, serve return is going to be even easier. I am very certain of this. We are going to see people attacking serves we never saw attacked before. I don't want to see the balance tipped to far in favor of the returner by any additional ill-advised new rules. It's a racket sport, after all.
Congratulations to the young guy who beat Boll. Nice to see someone do well from the Western Hemisphere. It is good for the sport. |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Which ball was used in this event? |
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Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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AMonteiro
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Each team choses the ball when playing at home. I belive Ochsenhausen used Donic 3 star plastic balls.
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Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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Notice that Steger and tan got into a conversation and both of them made action of serve with their racket ( without the ball ). So obviously that was something to do with tanˊs serve. This dispute happened immediately after tan had an easy put away after Steger popped up his serve. Judging From the above evidences I can be very sure that Steger was complaining about the hiddeness of tanˊ s serve. |
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bbkon
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yu's fault in the final is something wrong but i ve seen other matches from him and there is nothing like lin gaoyuan. other offenders are karakasevic yelling at his coach, maze throwing his raquet and behaving like 12 year old brat
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DreiZ
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That's frustration. Not cheating. Chen Weixing outbursts in almost every match he plays.. Does he cheat? No. Frustration does not make a bad character, cheating does. Yu's blatant cheating is the worst of them all IMO. Edited by DreiZ - 10/21/2014 at 9:10pm |
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jackwong23
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Exactly, I dont despise players who show their frustrations by throwing racket or yelling, as these behaviours are not cheatings. Players who hide the serves deliberately or claiming edge balls which do not touch the edge of the table are all cheaters. |
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Baal
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I don't see any of that! In any case, the umpire didn't call it. Too bad for Steger. He was fooled by a serve. It happens. And as I said, from the same camera angle, Steger's serves appear to be equally hidden. I have watched Tan play a lot on video because his quickness amazes me and their aren't that many SP players among top men. I can't recall EVER seeing him get called for an illegal serve. Clearly the vast majority of ITTF umpires see it differently. So calling him a "cheater" is over the top, really says more about you than it does about him. |
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