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Kokutaku Tuple 007 Pro

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    Posted: 10/18/2019 at 7:21pm









(pic above is not mine)

Weight: 58 grams uncut
Hardness: 38 degrees
Speed: Off- to Off
Type: Chinese/Tacky

This was given to me by forum member and friend Achoomai as he is a distributor of Kokutaku in Thailand and also the owner of PingpongHouse Store. This rubber is very soft and even at 38 degrees it feels softer like 37 or 36 degrees. The topsheet is the standard 007 topsheet but with a selected and improved sponge. The topsheet is tacky and sticky which I caution people to always clean this and place a plastic cover after cleaning it as it is prone to gathering dust but this is not a problem that I really see. The topsheet is kinda soft also and you can feel the softness the moment you press your fingers against it. The sponge is porous as you can see in the pic and feels very soft. It feels softer than a Big Dipper that has 38 degrees hardness.

I tested this both as an unboosted and boosted rubber. I think I told Achoomai a few times how apprehensive I was with the softness because I have always been a hard Chinese type user in the FH with some ESN rubbers as exceptions. He told me to just give it a try and off I did. Unboosted, the 007 Pro feels like a faster but soft Chinese rubber. It is like a faster Sanwei Taiji but spinnier. At first day of testing, I was not so impressed by it because maybe it feels "Mehhh" but I had to give it some break in time just for the rubber's characteristics. Do not get me wrong. Unboosted, the rubber shows promise and good playing characteristics but if you have been used to playing with boosted rubber you would be forced to really boost it. It was on the 3rd day of playing with it that I noticed some changes and the rubber felt a little better when doing loop drives and spinny loops. The loops are very spinny probably almost near the level of Hurricane 3 unboosted. I had to adjust because of the softness and I had to dig into the sponge to spin better. The arc was medium unboosted.

When I boosted the 007 Pro, this is the time that things get interesting. I boosted it with 2 layers of my homemade oil based booster with paraffin mix. The rubber became very bouncy. In fact, it felt like a tacky Rakza 7 soft or a tacky Acuda S3. It felt like a soft ESN rubber in general. The 007 Pro was already bouncy before I boosted it and it was faster than the regular H3 unboosted. When boosted, the 007 Pro feels like a very bouncy ESN rubber. The arc became higher and the trajectory became a bit longer that you can still do hard strokes middle distance from the table easily. It is very spinny now if you engage the sponge more because of the softness of the topsheet and sponge. I give credit to the sponge for absorbing much booster especially that it is soft and also has large pores. For a 20USD rubber, you could get a soft ESN-like rubber that is very spinny and also bouncy.

Other good things about the 007 Pro are: good serving spin, good in spinny pushes and also can block well but you need some adjustments with the angle as this is a bit sensitive to incoming spin due to its tackiness and softness.

40 degree version

I really insisted with Achoomai to have a 40 degree version because the 38 degree version may seem too soft for a lot of people especially if they boost rubbers. The 40 degree version has a slightly darker blue color in order to distinguish it from the 38 degree version. It is also on the heavy side like about 64-65 grams uncut but still lighter than a lot of Chinese rubbers since it has a porous sponge. The 38 degree version has bigger pores compared to the 40 degree version.
All I can say is that the 40 degree 007 Pro can seriously give the Hurricane 3 a run for its money. The 007 Pro 40 has everything you wanted for a Chinese rubber. It is in the same level of spin with the Neo H3, both unboosted and boosted. I boosted mine after playing for 3 days because I am used to boosting Hurricane 3 and Sanwei Target Pro 90 rubbers. The spin is crazy with the 007 Pro 40 that I switched to it coming from an H3 neo rubber because it has the spin that I have always wanted from the H3. It has a slightly lower throw compared to the 38 degree version but not a low throw. I would consider the arc as medium arc. This is easier to use than the H3 and also offers more speed. I think it is better compared to the H3 if you are talking about smashes as you are less prone to errors or hitting the net. The spin is crazy wherein a friend of mine blocking my loops during a friendly match could not block it properly because the ball return outside the table. He was using an antispin rubber when he was blocking my loops. I would have this as my number 1 Chinese rubber in my forehand and it can totally replace Hurricane 3. Hurricane is only better in terms of durability I think as the topsheet is much more sturdy. Also, you need to clean the 007 Pro often because it easily catches dust but other than that I do not have any qualms about this rubber.
I strongly suggests players who loop always and are more advanced in their skill to choose the 40 degree version instead of the 38 as it offers more. Hurricane 3 users can also use this as a substitute. I would suggest boosting the rubber at least 3 times. You have about 3-4 days of breaking in the rubber. After that, the rubber can really grow on you.


Edited by yogi_bear - 11/01/2019 at 7:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2019 at 8:18pm
thanks for the neat review. 58g uncut means 42 or 43 cut including the glue is this right? Unless the uncut sheet is not close to the typical 169x169.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2019 at 9:21pm
It is a regular square cut size. It is due to the less dense sponge. 

Edited by yogi_bear - 10/18/2019 at 9:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2019 at 9:45pm
Sponge is porous (big pore) which make the total weight is relatively light.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2019 at 7:52pm
I will be testing the 40 degree version this weekend. I am excited more on the 40 degree version because I prefer hard rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skynet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2019 at 1:32am
Yogi, how does the Tuple 007 compare to the Sanwei Target National. I played the Sanwei some time ago on a Viscaria, but eventually abandoned the set-up for some other stuff. Now I want to try the Sanwei again and boost it with Dymax Maximizer (thin and very smelly booster). How would that work out or is the Sanwei somewhat outdated and the Tuple the better option? Any thoughts?


Edited by Skynet - 10/26/2019 at 1:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2019 at 9:35am
there is the Sanwei Target National Pro Blue now. I woudl say the throw of the 38 degree 007 Pro is a bit higher than Target. TARGET has this sharp long and low throw over the net. Sanwei Target National favors more looping while the 38 007 favors a stroke that hits through the sponge or others describe as a "euro" stroke. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2019 at 11:46am
For me, Target National is still more powerful for chinese stroke but for 007 is like multifunction rubber.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skynet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2019 at 12:37pm
Thanks for the input, yogi and achoomai. I guess I will go with the Target National again. This time however I will put it on an all-wood bade (Nexy Arche or Tibhar Akkad). Hopefully this will work out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2019 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Skynet Skynet wrote:

Thanks for the input, yogi and achoomai. I guess I will go with the Target National again. This time however I will put it on an all-wood bade (Nexy Arche or Tibhar Akkad). Hopefully this will work out.

But if you want to try , there are some free sheets available to try in Amazon. You just need to pay for shipping. Refund for rubber value will be refunded after you put review.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Originally posted by Skynet Skynet wrote:

Thanks for the input, yogi and achoomai. I guess I will go with the Target National again. This time however I will put it on an all-wood bade (Nexy Arche or Tibhar Akkad). Hopefully this will work out.

STN does not need boosting. Does it? It is medium pored sponge around H39-40 but on elastic topsheet leading to overall rubber to feel like H38. There are two kinds of stroke both unleashing STN energy in different ways. 

If used on the backhand: it's powerful hit where axis of rotation is elbow together with sudden wrist slap. If you happen to hit on racket sweetspot or at least in the top third of the racket head then STN rubber will make a click sound with ball rocket launching. It is 70% smash to 30% brush ratio.

On the FH you do pretty much the same stroke as with H3, putting all your body into the shot having 70% of the energy in the brushing effort. If power is at the right level then topsheet will get stretched by sinking ball leading to nice killer top spin with decent speed.

STN already feels at H38 so what the point of boosting it?

It is already perfect on Viscaria family blades. But can be even less demanding (easier to play) if your blade has more flex and dwell than Viscaria, for example, I tried it on this  5 ply wood http://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic86137.html and result is better - more spin (BH and FH)

As my skill level goes up ... STN never stops to amaze me. It is so much under appreciated rubber out there.


Edited by fmarek - 10/27/2019 at 12:54am
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2019 at 8:09pm
although STN is already factory boosted, you should really try a boosted STN because it is one hot rubber!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2019 at 6:20am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

although STN is already factory boosted ...

Even though this post is not about STN but I'd like to know where that info is coming from? 
Cannot find any mentioning about boosting or tuning on the package of STN. It is not in any vacuum sealed bag and not smelly.
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2019 at 7:29am
The STN has factory tuning. You can see the rubber has some curl out of the package but it is not enough. The ESN rubbers also have factory boosting but they are not placed in a vacuum packaging too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2019 at 7:41am
I dealt with 6 STN rubbers and none had any curling. The package is this (or without any face) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32619511193.html 

So you just assuming it is tuned or have some information about it?
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2019 at 7:44pm
I was informed by a rubber designer and blade maker before. By the way, the curling that i am talking abiut is not the u shaped or bowl shaped curling but rather the rubber does not have an entirely flwt look. Also, did you notice the semi oily part of the sponge? Part of the reaeon why a rubber shrinks aside from too much rolling when attacing is that the amount of factory boosting evaporates. A eponge without boost is only limited by the time it has the boost. This is why you will notic3 after a few weeks, there will be changes in the playing characteristics if the rubber. This is more evident among esn rubbers but chinese rubbers especially the medium priced ones also have tuner but in a little amount just to give the rubber some.l juice but also to avoid going the specificed amount of voc. The vacuum packed rubbers before have a faster rate of voc evaporation that is why they have to be sealed. By the way, i have had more than 20+ STN used and I was the one who introduced it to this forum and in ttd in 2014 or 15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2019 at 10:06pm
Mate, I am not questioning your credibility or knowledge. I am fairly new to all this. I got surprised that STN is pre-tuned, as it does not look like one. So if you source is rubber designer I take it as an answer :)

In any case rubber is a big find to me, I like it the way it is, would not bother soaking it into any more oils :)

Bth do you know anything about these blue packaged new Sanwei Target Provincial's? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2019 at 3:48am
I have reviewed the blue packaged STN's already or the ones named Sanwei Target National Pro Blue rubbers. It is basically have a new sponge which is faster and with a lower throw or arc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2019 at 4:13am
Where can I find your review?
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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You can search it in ttd website
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Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2019 at 10:54am
Thanks for your great review Yogi!

STN was one of my favorite rubbers. I only gave it up when I switched to a faster 7 ply as i did not like the interaction between blade and rubber gears. STN's speed, and ease of use are it's two biggest strengths. It plays like a boosted H3 41 with training wheels. 

I was looking for something similar but lighter when I saw Achoomai's Tulpe 007 pro offer. I was curious to check on the current state of non DHS fast/tacky/elastic rubber.

I currently use K1 Hybrid, as it offers some of the classic tacky advantage (service, short game, FH flicks) and it is still able to make a safe arc with deeper trajectory if I get pushed off the table. 

Edited by icontek - 10/29/2019 at 11:07am
US1260.RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE
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His 38 degree pro 007 is already light. If you wabt lighter that will be a total downgrade among rubbers you are using. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

His 38 degree pro 007 is already light. If you wabt lighter that will be a total downgrade among rubbers you are using. 

I am not sure who you were replying to.

Also, Achoomai mentioned using the rubber through the break in period - do you think that by the 3rd day it was fully broken in?

Compared to STN, do you think it will just play more elastic and linear?

STN seems like it wants to drive or brush, and has a loud fast driving gear, and a quieter, brushing gear. It does not flat hit well.
US1260.RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE
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Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

His 38 degree pro 007 is already light. If you wabt lighter that will be a total downgrade among rubbers you are using. 

I am not sure who you were replying to.

Also, Achoomai mentioned using the rubber through the break in period - do you think that by the 3rd day it was fully broken in?

Compared to STN, do you think it will just play more elastic and linear?

STN seems like it wants to drive or brush, and has a loud fast driving gear, and a quieter, brushing gear. It does not flat hit well.

The 40 degree hardness version may suit for the players who like harder rubber, but not very hard.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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updated with a review for 40 degree version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

updated with a review for 40 degree version.
Thanks a lot.
For durability, please check again after 2 months.
My first customer used 38 degree version for 2 months now (just reboosted) and he still happy with it.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Review on Amazon



Edited by achoomai - 11/03/2019 at 1:22am
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2019 at 1:12am
Achoomai -Would you like my review in this thread or as a separate thread?

Day 1


FH rubber on a new Avalox P500
2 coats of Revolution 3 Medium glue
Paired it with Rasant 1.7mm on BH for balance 
(Rasant is even heavier than classic Chinese rubber so 1.7 helps balance)

Disclaimers: 
Low level club player (rating in signature).
I can topspin from my forehand wing, I can loop with spin or drive the ball as well; smashes are not my thing.
I have played with some variant of Chinese rubber on my forehand (729, DHS, and later Sanwei Target National) for a better part of a decade. This past year I've preferred German Hybrids (like K1, which plays like a slightly boosted Chinese classic). 

Observations:
Visually, the topsheet of the 007 Pro is more similar to Sanwei Target National than Hurricane; it has a synthetic look. It is somewhat supple. The blue sponge is porous, but not as deep and rich as STN's. It is not super tacky. Freshly glued, the bounce test felt slow, like a new Chinese rubber but not as slow as H3. You can tell it will have a good short game immediately.

Playing Conditions:
5 hours of warmup, drills and matches. Mixed match results early, better later.

It felt slow to start, but very predictable. Feedback from the rubber was clear and crisp and it could create good safe arcs easily. Throw I would call medium, but spin was better than I expected. The rubber was more forgiving of poor footwork than classic Hurricanes. And when you do execute, it can generate enough pressure. If caught out of position, you can reliably still topspin balls to the table. What is very rewarding is that when you do execute good footwork and positioning, it is capable of delivering good power. Later in the evening, I was able to properly FH attack from BH corner to opponent FH line. 

First Impressions:
FEEL:
007's Chinese tacky feeling is more pronounced than DHS-made hybrids like the original Stiga Genesis M or earlier iterations like Tinarc. On the first day, it was not as linear as those rubbers, and felt more traditional Chinese Tacky (slower, short game). It also felt like 007's Japanese sponge had a bit of depth, or top end power. I was not able to bottom it out. Whereas Yasaka's Rising Dragon feels like a mushy Galaxy rubber, this feels more solid.

SPIN:
I also like the spin of 007 better than Sanwei Target National; it's much easier to vary spin with the 007. On first impression it also seems to be pretty stable for blocking on forehand drills. I really like the countertopspin with this rubber. Looping your opponents block, or even his drive is pretty easy. Short game touch is very good. I could vary service spin by using topsheet, or going high toss and using sponge. Like classic Chinese rubber,  it was possible to attack inside the table, using off the bounce loops.

SPEED:
On the first day, it was not fast. I had to work to produce speed. If you gave the ball a solid stroke, using your hip, speed was not significant. It was not as slow as classic Chinese rubbers, as the japanese sponge seems to give it some medium pace when you apply force. After 3-4 hours, when I went for it on 3rd ball attacks, it felt very Chinese. Good control and more than enough speed for shots where you use a big swing.

Notes:
-Early on I alternated matches with my normal K1 Hybrid / Victas 402DE Setup, as the evening progressed, I started to heavily favor the 007/P500 combo.
-I don't think I would need to boost this, I would not want it any softer and I am not sure that the spin would be enough to keep the arc down.
-If it plays this well after the break in period, I would probably buy another sheet.



Edited by icontek - 11/05/2019 at 4:04pm
US1260.RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE
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achoomai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2019 at 6:28am
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Put here is fine.

Edited by achoomai - 11/05/2019 at 6:30am
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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