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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masterbuten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/2016 at 10:02pm
Just got back to TT and after a long hiatus broke out my trusty black tag violin. Attached the Vega Pro (fh) and Vega Elite (bh) which from reviews seem to be good rubbers but seem dead in combination with the Violin especially with the 40+ balls.

What rubbers would pair well with the Violin these days? I might also consider Chinese rubbers.
Stiga OC CR
FH DHS TG2
BH DHS TG3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/28/2016 at 1:14am
Originally posted by masterbuten masterbuten wrote:

Just got back to TT and after a long hiatus broke out my trusty black tag violin. Attached the Vega Pro (fh) and Vega Elite (bh) which from reviews seem to be good rubbers but seem dead in combination with the Violin especially with the 40+ balls.

What rubbers would pair well with the Violin these days? I might also consider Chinese rubbers.


Try Nittaku Fast Arc G1
Andro Wanokiwami AO Offensive 83 gr
H3 National Orange 40 deg 2.2
Baracuda Max
182 Gr

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masterbuten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 9:17pm
Thanks for the suggestion peter79! Unfortunately I don't think it is available on pingpongonline.com where I mostly get my stuff here in the Philippines.
Stiga OC CR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2016 at 7:28am
Recently i decided to try my old love - 75 gr. Violin how good is with the new balls. I put a spare Rasant (actualy i play with Rasant since then, cause it was the best mach i found with a Violin for me) on it and wow... so good that i started to bother my mind , what was the reason to put it off? Maybe it wasn't so good before. Maybe i have to leave my TBS and return back to it ? .... And i bought myselve Viscaria for Christmas to find are there any differences with a TBS. Damn EJ LOL
Viscaria 90gr. T05H + 2 layers Falco TL/T05
TBS 86gr. T05/T05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 1:18pm
Join club! I got a acoustic C-pen, custom order. 
Feels very solid even though it is a 5-plywood. 


BTY Red KTS + T64
BTY Special + T64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2017 at 1:27pm
Don't you feel Violin is outdated for a power looper with new PB?

I loved it, but traded mine because I need too much power to finish the rallies...

Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 3:35am
Hi Clan Members, I was trying to find evidence that Nittaku use hide glue for the String series. The print on the blades and the ads I saw say they use same techniques and technology as in strings instruments manufacturing, but not the type of glue. I have talked to instrument makers and they tend not to use hide glue any longer because there are better and more convenient alternatives, nowadays. I went as far as translating some of Nittaku's advertising images from Japanese by using OCR, but could not find any reference to hide glue. Maybe we have to debunk a myth?
The secret of Violin & co. is likely still in the glue and/or glueing process, just... it may not be hide glue. Anyone knows for sure?
Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 4:00am
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Hi Clan Members, I was trying to find evidence that Nittaku use hide glue for the String series. The print on the blades and the ads I saw say they use same techniques and technology as in strings instruments manufacturing, but not the type of glue. I have talked to instrument makers and they tend not to use hide glue any longer because there are better and more convenient alternatives, nowadays. I went as far as translating some of Nittaku's advertising images from Japanese by using OCR, but could not find any reference to hide glue. Maybe we have to debunk a myth?
The secret of Violin & co. is likely still in the glue and/or glueing process, just... it may not be hide glue. Anyone knows for sure?
Hello arg0; thanks again for smoothly working the the Nexy Karis testing fiesta; I really had a lot of fun and it made me think again about rubbers and what I need from them. I felt lucky to be part of it and I am grateful about your work.

I do have a hard time imagining a production line involving hide glue and that's why I trust people like Borko Dragolivic who builds $4000 guitars and owns 200 tt blades he did not build; he uses hide glue for the blades he builds. I suggest you contact him and ask him, I would be very interested in another interview that you would take on.

You probably saw that before:

I think this interview is one of the gold nuggets of the forum and from there you could build more:would be so kind to contact Borko and ask him if he would be willing to talk about hide glue again? its benefits (he says epoxy is like another ply...) and how relevant it still is in the age of the new ball?

I would be happy to contact him but I believe today you are better than me to take that on.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I heard he was sick lately so I hope he is better now and willing to share his knowledge.

edit: forum member emilian mihet (usatt 2100 or so) can help you: he is a close friend to Borko's and they share that passion about blades.





Edited by fatt - 05/07/2017 at 8:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Hi Clan Members, I was trying to find evidence that Nittaku use hide glue for the String series. The print on the blades and the ads I saw say they use same techniques and technology as in strings instruments manufacturing, but not the type of glue. I have talked to instrument makers and they tend not to use hide glue any longer because there are better and more convenient alternatives, nowadays. I went as far as translating some of Nittaku's advertising images from Japanese by using OCR, but could not find any reference to hide glue. Maybe we have to debunk a myth?
The secret of Violin & co. is likely still in the glue and/or glueing process, just... it may not be hide glue. Anyone knows for sure?



Marketing... That all folks
Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Hello arg0 [...]
I do have a hard time imagining a production line involving hide glue and that's why I trust people like Borko Dragolivic who builds $4000 guitars and owns 200 tt blades he did not build; he uses hide glue for the blades he builds. I suggest you contact him and ask him, I would be very interested in another interview that you would take on.
[...]
I think this interview is one of the gold nuggets of the forum and from there you could build more:would be so kind to contact Borko and ask him if he would be willing to talk about hide glue again? its benefits (he says epoxy is like another ply...) and how relevant it still is in the age of the new ball?

Hello fatt,
thanks for your kind words and the challenge. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to dig deeper into the issue, I simply lack the time, not to mention the skill, to prepare an interview. Moreover, even if I had, I feel I am not very competent in talking about the new ball. In the last two years I had little time to practice TT and I feel I simply don't have enough experience with it.
I truly hope you will contact him and continue the interview. There's a lot to learn from his experience!

This said, I was actually interested in the secret of Violin. It does play and feel unlike any other blade I tried. I especially love the way it vibrates. Even Acoustic and Tenor feel completely different and muted in comparison (which is good or bad, depending on your taste).
Yinhe E-4 has similar construction to Violin but plays very different. Nexy Lissom has white ash top plies, but different construction: it's a spin machine, but it's not a Violin.
So if Violin's secret is not the white ash plies, and not the hide glue, what is it then? My suspicion is that it still in the special type of glue that is used, that permeates deeply in the wood without creating a "layer" like epoxy. Just, it's likely not hide glue. But I'm just speculating...
Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Marketing... That all folks

Never saw any reference to hide glue in Nittaku's ads. As to the rest, see my previous post.
Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2017 at 5:50pm
And while we're at it, I found this image in an ad from Nittaku for the strings series blades.


Below is the result of my attempt of translating the above text.
Note that I cannot speak or read a word of Japanese. I tried to OCR the above text, adjusted the characters/logograms until they looked right to my untrained eye, and the ran in trhough google translate.
If anyone reads japanese, please correct my translation. Thanks.

弦楽器製造技術 イメ-ジ
木自体の水分の通り道である「造管」の内
部奥探くまで接着剤を浸透させる技術で、
弦楽器の製造に用いられます。
微細な凸凹に特殊接着剤が均一に入り込
み、合板同士が引き寄せちれー体化する
ことで、硬さのバラツキがなくスイ一卜エ
リアが広がります。
独特の芯があるような打球感で、繊紬な
ボ一ルタッチと安定した威力ある弾みを
可能にします。


String Maker Manufacturing Technology Image
Within the "pipe making" which is the path of the moisture of the tree itself
By penetration of the adhesive in the back of the part,
It is used to manufacture string instruments.
Special adhesive gently enters fine asperity
Only, plywood attracts each other
By doing so, there is no variation in hardness,
The rear spreads.
With a sense of shot feel like having a unique core,
Ball touch and stable and powerful momentum
We will make it possible.




ラケット野面
Racket Face

※図 よイメ一ジです。
(one symbol is missing)
It is a picture

一体化
Integration

接着剤
Adhesive

木材
Wood

引き寄せ
Attract

浸透
Infiltration


Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/16/2017 at 5:04am
Just whipped out my violin too. Not sure why I stopped using it.
(\__/)
(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake,
(")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2017 at 4:55pm
Just in case you wonder whether Violin has a milled handle or not... it does. At least the LG version.
Yesterday my Violin slipped out of my hand and dropped to the floor while I was collecting it from the table and one handle part broke off. Just so. It must have fallen on a tsubo, as I never thought that a handle may come off so easily.

Now I wonder what glue I should use to glue the parts back together. Though there is no evidence that Nittaku actually uses hide glue for their strings series (see my previous posts), I would still be more comfortable in using hide glue than others, just in case.

However, since using real hide glue is cumbersome and I never did before, I thought of maybe getting some Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, instead. Any advice?
(Note: I know I have to sand the surfaces, prior to applying glue.)


Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 9:29am
Well I'm back to this club after 5 years in a row playing with Rosewood V.
I was trying my spare acoustic for a while the other day and immediately felt in love with it. It's almost as fast a RWV but way easier to control, specially for short game, so now I'm able to land on the table a few balls more than before, and my overall game is more balanced right now. Maybe I don't have the raw power as before, but its a wiser choice for anyone that can't train more than 4h a week.
Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Well I'm back to this club after 5 years in a row playing with Rosewood V.
I was trying my spare acoustic for a while the other day and immediately felt in love with it. It's almost as fast a RWV but way easier to control, specially for short game, so now I'm able to land on the table a few balls more than before, and my overall game is more balanced right now. Maybe I don't have the raw power as before, but its a wiser choice for anyone that can't train more than 4h a week.
very well said. Best tribute to the nittaku violin ever. I have 2 and won't sell them because I'll buy some more in a year like I've done 5 or 6 times already. It's my home blade I come back to when in doubt. So much spin, control, the blocking and short game are divine while not being slow from mid distance: no 5-ply all wood can compete with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by arg0 arg0 wrote:

Just in case you wonder whether Violin has a milled handle or not... it does. At least the LG version.
Yesterday my Violin slipped out of my hand and dropped to the floor while I was collecting it from the table and one handle part broke off. Just so. It must have fallen on a tsubo, as I never thought that a handle may come off so easily.

Now I wonder what glue I should use to glue the parts back together. Though there is no evidence that Nittaku actually uses hide glue for their strings series (see my previous posts), I would still be more comfortable in using hide glue than others, just in case.

However, since using real hide glue is cumbersome and I never did before, I thought of maybe getting some Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, instead. Any advice?
(Note: I know I have to sand the surfaces, prior to applying glue.)




sorry to hear that. Tidebond liquid hide glue will be close enough, don't sweat it just do it, you'll feel proud to make it work again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 1:09pm
I would strongly endorse Elmer's Professional Wood glue. I have used it on handle and other blade repairs with great results.  The bond will be stronger than the original wood itself.  Joe
Joe B     Nittaku S-5
              OSP Virtuoso S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2017 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Well I'm back to this club after 5 years in a row playing with Rosewood V.
I was trying my spare acoustic for a while the other day and immediately felt in love with it. It's almost as fast a RWV but way easier to control, specially for short game, so now I'm able to land on the table a few balls more than before, and my overall game is more balanced right now. Maybe I don't have the raw power as before, but its a wiser choice for anyone that can't train more than 4h a week.
very well said. Best tribute to the nittaku violin ever. I have 2 and won't sell them because I'll buy some more in a year like I've done 5 or 6 times already. It's my home blade I come back to when in doubt. So much spin, control, the blocking and short game are divine while not being slow from mid distance: no 5-ply all wood can compete with it.


I meant Acoustic, not Violin .

I loved violin before the glue ban, I would surely keep using it if I could speed glue or add some boosters but I feel it's kinda slow for modern power loopers
Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 11:03am
Can you guys tell me what rubbers you are using on your Acoustic Carbon blade?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 1:13pm
I am using Tenergy 80
Kenta ALC T05H/T05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 5:27pm
Mid-hard rubbers will be nice on Acoustic since it´s quite soft blade.
Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Well I'm back to this club after 5 years in a row playing with Rosewood V. 
I was trying my spare acoustic for a while the other day and immediately felt in love with it. It's almost as fast a RWV but way easier to control, specially for short game, so now I'm able to land on the table a few balls more than before, and my overall game is more balanced right now. Maybe I don't have the raw power as before, but its a wiser choice for anyone that can't train more than 4h a week.
very well said. Best tribute to the nittaku violin ever. I have 2 and won't sell them because I'll buy some more in a year like I've done 5 or 6 times already. It's my home blade I come back to when in doubt. So much spin, control, the blocking and short game are divine while not being slow from mid distance: no 5-ply all wood can compete with it.
 

I meant Acoustic, not Violin  .

I loved violin before the glue ban, I would surely keep using it if I could speed glue or add some boosters but I feel it's kinda slow for modern power loopers
oops Confused

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Mid-hard rubbers will be nice on Acoustic since it´s quite soft blade.

I tried an Omega V Asia 2.0 on a Vega Tour and I would expect that rubber to fit the acoustic perfectly; next is to slap it on a violin: on the fh it might be better than rasanter r47; actually on any blade as far as my (perception of) technique is concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2017 at 9:24pm
I took two sets off someone 300 rating points above me with violin and R47
(\__/)
(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake,
(")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2017 at 10:15am
Yesterday night I tested a vega tour with omega v Asia 2.0 fh and rasanter r47 bh. I needed 5 games v. a strong 1800 friend I beat 3-0 last time with the violin + r47 2.0 x2. Then I went back with that violin setup and played a strong 2k, won 3-1 after leading 2-0. The opening loop is the best that setup does while I was not often too long like the match before.
The spin of r47 on a flexy 5-ply is phenomenal and we're talking about rubbers that are 2.5 months! BEST COMBO EVER!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2017 at 1:59am
after my comeback to Acoustic I realized why I quit using using it. It's quite head heavy and I don't like the gap at your hand grabbing the handle.

My RWV has exactly  the same weight but the master handle is way better and feels more balanced.

Those that own Acoustic L-Size, how's the shape of FL L-Size handle? Is it's squarish or rounded type? Has it got the same issue being so head heavy?


Edited by jonyer1980 - 10/21/2017 at 2:06am
Rosewood V FL

Thibar EL-P MAX FH

Rozena MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2017 at 3:30am
The reason I didn't buy me an Acoustic was the popular opinion that the blade is head heavy. Recently I bought a Latika FL and although people were saying it is head heavy as well I found it to be reasonable with Aeolus(very heavy) and T64. BTW this blade is maybe the best in a period of extensive testing and EJ'ing. Simply love it
FH: Dignics 064
BH: Dignics 005
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arg0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2017 at 3:33pm
fatt, JoeB,
thanks. I finally repaired my Violin using hide glue. Real hide glue, not liquid hide glue. It was not straightforward, and I had to do some tests on some scrap pieces of wood until I got the viscosity and the speed right, but I learned a lot.

All,
to finally answer the question of whether Nittaku use hide glue for their strings series blades, I plan to get one and heat it up to 55-60 C: if there's hide glue, it will melt, the layers will detach, and the blade will be wrecked. For obvious reasons I'm not willing to do this with my Violins.
So I'm looking for an Acoustic, Violin, Tenor, or Vio(lo)ncello in poor, very poor, or broken condition.
If you have one, let me know via PM. Blade must be original: ideally, you have proof of purchase from a reliable shop.

If you want to know, too, and want to contribute, you may toss me a few bucks via PayPal. I will then get an original blade from an official Nittaku reseller for the test. If the blade does not come apart, I will sell it and return the money.


Edited by arg0 - 10/28/2017 at 3:51pm
Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG.
Join the Nexy Clan!
Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans.
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Pongville, WA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2017 at 4:33pm
wow you are not kidding are you? Big smile congrats on the hide glue experiment. 

are you in blade production mode? yay, you can do it! let's see who comes first, you or jpenmaster Tongue

for his typical 5-ply all wood, borko uses a balsa core, black walnut miedial and maple outer plies. 
there are different densities in balsa, up to 20+lb /cu.ft; chosing it among the hardest seems reasonable to me. This is just a suggestion in case you want a formula that has proven right.
GradeUltra LightLightLight MediumMediumMedium HardHard
Density in
lb/cu.ft
4-5.45.5-6.06.1-7.57.6-9.59.6-1214 +


Edited by fatt - 10/29/2017 at 4:39pm
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Halon X View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halon X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2018 at 12:16am
Hi I would like to join this clan if not to late :)

My Violin LG FL and Acoustic Carbon Inner LG FL will arrive soon

I also would like to ask if you also seal the handle of Violin and Acoustic?
Is orange oil safe to use for sealing the handle? 


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