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Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:50am
Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Since you are boosting and let me guess, using 2x glue layer how did you know LOLLOLLOLLOL
 

You said you are on Primorac with H3 and looking for better control. Well, something is adding speed to your setup, cause otherwise it is already very controllable. I thought it must be glue or stretched sheet of rubber.

Maybe guess  was wrong :)
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:54am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Since you are boosting and let me guess, using 2x glue layer how did you know LOLLOLLOLLOL
 

You said you are on Primorac with H3 and looking for better control. Well, something is adding speed to your setup, cause otherwise it is already very controllable. I thought it must be glue or stretched sheet of rubber.

Maybe guess  was wrong :)

yes it is very controllable, but I think multiple layers of glue is just what EJs do LOLLOL thought yoj infered that from me being a small EJ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:27am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Does it matter that much? I hardly imagine a situation where you would say, "oh, I lost this because I played with Violin, I should have got myself Acoustic :)"
...
If you have strong wrist then 3-60 in H37 is very good choice, BH or even FH it will play well. Even though H37 label might sound softish after H41, it is a rather firm sponge under not too much elastic topsheet, hence requires powerful shots.
...

One last question regarding the Skyline 3-60... I don't know whether 2.0 or 2.1mm is better. 2.0 is more controllable and obviously slightly lighter, but is 2.0 too slow on an allround blade? You seem to have experience playing the Skyline 3-60 Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:46am
I am finishing second sheet of 3-60 and have 2 more in stock without any intention to change.


On ALC it's a dream. If you are coming from tenergy, be ready for big difference. Not bouncy, not springy, you cannot put tricky spin by stretching topsheet. It's not a tensor. I never boosted it. You get what you want by compressing cake sponge.

When I played allround blades I used to use STN or 729 08-ES (H45) on BH. STN sponge is also cake, but it is a blue one and it is harder. However, topsheet is elastic making it work for BH very well. Feeling of 3-60 on ALC is similar to STN on all wood.
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:48am
RE: 2.0 vs 2.1 My rule is - when in doubt always go for thicker.
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 3:32am
Ok, weight... so here it goes:
My Hurricane Long 3 ST weighs 92g 
this was too head heavy for me, but I think it's mostly because of the large head and comparatively thin handle. 
my whole Primorac setup weighs 188.3g, but my Tenergy doesn't stretch over the whole surface area... But I think I would be fine with 188-192g



Edited by dyfferent - 11/19/2019 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 8:57am
Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Now I just need to decide on a weight of 87,88,89,90,91,92 LOLLOL

If my math is correct, then 3-60 weights around 50g (not more) when cut to 157x150 this is Primorac's head size. Violin is 156x149 afaik, but that'll only be a couple of grams difference.

Since you are boosting and let me guess, using 2x glue layer how did you know LOLLOLLOLLOL
 then ... 88g ? I wonder how 90+ wights got into your list?? I asked tt11 for their weights and since Primorac is faster I thought I get a heavier violin to compensate. Also heavier is also denser wood. so better quality?

How is skyline 3-60 durability?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:01am
Update: my Hurricane 41° weighs 52g with the glue layer x) and the T05 50g. The substitute sheet of H3Neo 2.15, which I'll use until the Skyline 3-60 arrives, only weighs 46g. I'll see how the weight difference plays out...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:02am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

How is skyline 3-60 durability?

judging by Skyline and Hurricane rubbers' durability, it should be quite good. Don't know about the sponge though...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:06am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Now I just need to decide on a weight of 87,88,89,90,91,92 LOLLOL

If my math is correct, then 3-60 weights around 50g (not more) when cut to 157x150

Since you are boosting and let me guess, using 2x glue layer, then ... 88g ? I wonder how 90+ weights got into your list??





my 3-60 weight 62 uncut and 44 cut
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 1:41pm
Hi, 

I was in very similar place but I ended up on the other side of camp with the Acoustic (C.Pen). I’m in love with it and since then bought another (because I had a minor crack from an unfortunate event during match play- but later repaired myself). 

However, I still do wonder about the violin. As I am quite an athletic person, I wonder if the extra control the Violin supposedly offers would benefit my offensive game. The other thing that goes through my head is that I am pretty heavy on the spin game (aggressive looper). I’m just waiting for that day to try one...

Regarding your rubber choices, I’m in a similar place with Skyline TG2 NEO for FH on one (and Provincial blue sponge -2.2, 40 deg on my back up) with my BH being skyline 3-60 (and Hurricane 3-50 on my back up).

I’m in love with the S3-60. I have it at mid hard 2.1. It’s a very controlled and spinny rubber and I don’t intend to change it. 

I was hopeful for the H3-50 to be just a higher throwing, tad slower S3-60... but it’s way slower, less spinny and WAY softer. Maybe I got bit by the legendary-poor DHS QC? Perhaps it’s really a soft version in the mid package? I’m not sure... maybe someone else who’s compared both can enlighten us. 

I can’t wait to hear about your violin setup after a few hours of training and some matches. Good luck!
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
Nittaku H3PTO
Yasaka Rakza 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 1:54pm
I never tried the Violin with tacky rubbers; those are generally slow and the Violin can use a bit of oomph from the rubbers but it's personal (I'm not that athletic...). My best sensations with the Violin are with the R47 because it's fast and so versatile, a bit like the blade itself. On that blade, the G-1 works wonders as well of course. Those 2 rubbers are in the low $30 when purchased in conjunction with the 3=4 discount, at least they were not a long ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:


How is skyline 3-60 durability?

It can take 100 hours of play. Then you can still keep it for more ... but if you put new rubber next to it, you will notice the difference. Top sheet gets polished and tackiness goes. Durability is similar to with hurricanes. given the funny price I don't bother after 100 hrs, just replace.
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Hi, 

I was in very similar place but I ended up on the other side of camp with the Acoustic (C.Pen). I’m in love with it and since then bought another (because I had a minor crack from an unfortunate event during match play- but later repaired myself). 

However, I still do wonder about the violin. As I am quite an athletic person, I wonder if the extra control the Violin supposedly offers would benefit my offensive game. The other thing that goes through my head is that I am pretty heavy on the spin game (aggressive looper). I’m just waiting for that day to try one...

Regarding your rubber choices, I’m in a similar place with Skyline TG2 NEO for FH on one (and Provincial blue sponge -2.2, 40 deg on my back up) with my BH being skyline 3-60 (and Hurricane 3-50 on my back up).

I’m in love with the S3-60. I have it at mid hard 2.1. It’s a very controlled and spinny rubber and I don’t intend to change it. 

I was hopeful for the H3-50 to be just a higher throwing, tad slower S3-60... but it’s way slower, less spinny and WAY softer. Maybe I got bit by the legendary-poor DHS QC? Perhaps it’s really a soft version in the mid package? I’m not sure... maybe someone else who’s compared both can enlighten us. 

I can’t wait to hear about your violin setup after a few hours of training and some matches. Good luck!
Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) 
I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers)
Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I never tried the Violin with tacky rubbers; those are generally slow and the Violin can use a bit of oomph from the rubbers but it's personal (I'm not that athletic...). My best sensations with the Violin are with the R47 because it's fast and so versatile, a bit like the blade itself. On that blade, the G-1 works wonders as well of course. Those 2 rubbers are in the low $30 when purchased in conjunction with the 3=4 discount, at least they were not a long ago.
heard similar things about R47, but am pretty set on Chinese / hybrid rubbers...
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Chinese rubbers will work well. Ma Long used Violin and then switched to Acoustic for a couple years  .
Kenta ALC T05H/T05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) 
I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers)
Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...

I also went for the heaviest blades that were available at that time. I think it’s good practice if you can handle it. 
With my experience between Neo vs. provincial (BS), I’m more of a fan for the more accessible Neo commercial variants. I don’t boost (but I also don’t feel like I need to with a 40 deg 2.2 BS), nor do I need any of the extra catapult from the provincial or national series sponges yet. 

I guess we will see if that changes in the future. 

-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
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Yasaka Rakza 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 2:17am
Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) 
I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers)
Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...

I also went for the heaviest blades that were available at that time. I think it’s good practice if you can handle it. 
With my experience between Neo vs. provincial (BS), I’m more of a fan for the more accessible Neo commercial variants. I don’t boost (but I also don’t feel like I need to with a 40 deg 2.2 BS), nor do I need any of the extra catapult from the provincial or national series sponges yet. 

I guess we will see if that changes in the future. 

yeah, leaning towards 92g / the heaviest as well. 
I don't know if I misunderstood, but there technically are no differences between commercial, provincial and national variants besides quality control (at least standard Orange Sponge) Although the difference between commercial and provincial is quite obvious, the difference between provincial and national is rather small. So there should not be any extra catapult (unless you're talking about different sponges only available in provincial/national variants).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 3:21am
Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Originally posted by dyfferent dyfferent wrote:

Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) 
I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers)
Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...

I also went for the heaviest blades that were available at that time. I think it’s good practice if you can handle it. 
With my experience between Neo vs. provincial (BS), I’m more of a fan for the more accessible Neo commercial variants. I don’t boost (but I also don’t feel like I need to with a 40 deg 2.2 BS), nor do I need any of the extra catapult from the provincial or national series sponges yet. 

I guess we will see if that changes in the future. 

yeah, leaning towards 92g / the heaviest as well. 
I don't know if I misunderstood, but there technically are no differences between commercial, provincial and national variants besides quality control (at least standard Orange Sponge) Although the difference between commercial and provincial is quite obvious, the difference between provincial and national is rather small. So there should not be any extra catapult (unless you're talking about different sponges only available in provincial/national variants).

Yeah the top sheets are the same, the sponge is where it’s coming from. 

Blue sponge is quite different from the Neo in my experience as far as throw height and spin potential. 
-Eric
Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 3:51am
Originally posted by alas alas wrote:


Yeah the top sheets are the same, the sponge is where it’s coming from. 

Blue sponge is quite different from the Neo in my experience as far as throw height and spin potential. 

Not too sure about H3 vs H3Neo though. H3 is said to be less elastic and more tacky. No official source though. Looking it up on the DHS website
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 10:01am
UPDATE:
I ordered:

Blade: Nittaku Violin FL LG in 92g or the heaviest available (the e-mail correspondence was confusing to me, listing ST and FL Nittaku Violins, when asked for a list of Nittaku Violin FL LG - hoping for the best Confused)

FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Blue Sponge 40° 2.15mm black
BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° 2.1mm red

really looking forward to assembling the blade with those sick Nittaku Red-Black-Red Edge tapeBig smile
So this should definitely satisfy me visually. Now it only has to play as well as it looks LOL

Review of the setup following in about a week.


Edited by dyfferent - 11/20/2019 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 10:36am
congrats and good luck! Be sure to post some pictures too :)


-Eric
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Yasaka Rakza 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 11:38am
we should always choose the heaviest we can handle, that 92g Violin might be a jewel, can't wait for the review, good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2019 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

we should always choose the heaviest we can handle, that 92g Violin might be a jewel, can't wait for the review, good luck!

Agreed! It’s probably faster than my two 88g Acoustics!
-Eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2019 at 3:21am
Given that you want 92g (!!!) blade, what is the final weight you are expecting to play with?
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2019 at 4:37am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Given that you want 92g (!!!) blade, what is the final weight you are expecting to play with?

I expect the DHS Hurricane 3 Neo provincial BS 40° to hopefully be lighter than 50g ~48g (156x149! instead of 157x150) and I hope for my Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° to weigh ~46g...
With my blade weighing 92g, I hope for: 92g+48g+46g+5g (glue and edge tape) = 191g or similar. I think I would be finde with a 193g blade as well as with a 188g blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2019 at 7:49am
This math looks fine. The only thing that your rubber weight will be opposite - H3 will be lighter but 3-60 - heavier than you predict. But overall will still be the same :)
Stiga Celero, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Yinhe Jupiter 2, H38
Yinhe Kiso 5ply, FH: 729 08-ES H47, BH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2019 at 2:33pm
I think it’s a manageable overall weight. Stable blocking, momentous loops and drives. Wooo!
-Eric
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Yasaka Rakza 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2019 at 10:43am
So... TT11 surpassed my expectations and delivered today LOL
uncut sheets weighed in at
DHS H3Neo 2.15 40° BS 66g (2 corners cut)
DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard 62g (4 corners cut)
and as expected the Nittaku Violin FL LG weighed 92g 
can't wait to get it assembled. first pictures following soon...
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyfferent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2019 at 7:30pm
Ok, this first impression is very incomplete, but I want to write it anyway. 
I glued the Skyline 3-60 using 2 layers of revolution glue on both the blade and the rubber, and attached an old (but playable) H3 provincial OS 41°, which is a bit too mushy due to overtuning, to the other side of the blade using 1 layer of butterfly free chack pro. 
My H3Neo BS is still in tuning (1 layer of revolution glue 1 thin layer of Falco)...

I immediately jumped into a league match, which - in hindsight - wasn't the best idea. Due to the harder outer plies, the rubbers felt more spinsensitive than usual. The backhand especially was really bad. Mostly, because I had an old T05 on it before, but also because the 3-60 is just far more sensitive to spin. Forehand was fine, but I still think the racket is a little more sensitive to spin overall. 
On the other hand, that spin sensitivity also let me serve and loop with a little bit more spin - it felt crisp. If I had to put a number on it, spin increased by about 2% for loops / slow topspins and about 5% on serves. 
Something that I noticed immediately is the decreased speed in countering and blocking. Especially warming up, I noticed that I could precisely measure how much power I needed to get  the ball where I want it - eXxxTremely precise!!! That speed decrease however, cause my backhand to constantly go into the net when countering and when returning serves. 
As for backhand topspins: (if they hit) they were spinnier, but slower. I really needed to brush the ball. There were at least 4 backhand topspins over the 3 matches that definitely would have hit using a T05, but didn't due to the 3-60 being relatively unforgiving if you're not brushing the ball properly and "hit" too much. 
Well anyway, I think I played alright: lost double 2-3, lost first single, 2-3 won last single 3-2. If I had played with a sheet of Tenergy 05 or Rozena on my backhand (what I was used to) i can almost guarantee I would have  won both the single and the double. There were just so many mistakes on my already bad backhand, that the T05 / Rozena usually forgave. 
I am really looking forward to blueing the H3neo BS LOL
I will give the 3-60 some time to grow on me. I'll decide if it'll only be to practice strokes and reading spin for my backhand or if I'll stick with it. As of now I see myself buying a Rozena in a couple of weeks, but I might be wrong. At least I would know that I really liked tensors on my backhand - especially the forgiving rozena. Probably going to try T05 and Rozena on my BH soon CryDeadConfused

Addition after a couple of minutes of brainstorming. The reason I chose TG 3-60 was because I play with a lot of spin and because my backhand stroke is somewhat long. those were pretty much the only upsides. The thing is, backhand is a lot more hitting in relation to brushing than forehand is...
Downsides are: my backhand receive of long serves is horrible. My backhand short play is weaker than that of my forehand. I often am (slightly) out of position and dont have time for this pretty long stroke i use if I can, which is why I need a more forgiving rubber. I just need the flrgiveness and playing the 3-60 is doing it the hard way. Correct me if im wrong, but so far: 
FS:tg skyline 3-60 Cry
LF: Butterfly Rozena 


Edited by dyfferent - 11/22/2019 at 8:44pm
DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15
Nittaku Violin FL LG
Butterfly Rozena 2.1
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