Print Page | Close Window

New nittaku 40+ Plastic Ball

Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators: position available

URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67117
Printed Date: 03/28/2024 at 4:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New nittaku 40+ Plastic Ball
Posted By: nittakuball
Subject: New nittaku 40+ Plastic Ball
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 5:47pm
Ha ha,got a new ball to try tonight.





-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada




Replies:
Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 5:57pm
a box of ONE?  how much is the one?



-------------
The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 6:02pm
sample from japan,just receive today

free

-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 6:44pm
Is it seamed or seamless?



-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Is it seamed or seamless?



seamed

-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: liulin04
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 7:28pm
do a video review!


-------------
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35056&PN=14&title=feedback-liulin04" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 10:01pm
That's weird. ITTF lists it as http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7257&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&" rel="nofollow - seamed , which is http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report_detail.php?&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&bn=1&rpcdno=1419#1419" rel="nofollow - confirmed by World-TT.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

That's weird. ITTF lists it as http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7257&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&" rel="nofollow - seamed , which is http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report_detail.php?&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&bn=1&rpcdno=1419#1419" rel="nofollow - confirmed by World-TT.


I did not see any line on the the ball so .....

-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 10:24pm
Now that's really puzzling. I bet you have tried looking under the light?

In the "Table Tennis Goods" magazine you have lying there, there is an article "Plastic Ball Unveiled - Debut and Test Play" showing a comparison of Nittaku seamed ball and Xushaofa seamless ball.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 11:08pm
Ok,after playing for 30 mins.
i think i saw the line,so is   http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/Balls_details.asp?ID=7257&Colour=&Company=&ID=&Stamp_colour=&" rel="nofollow - seamed .
the ball feel heavy,less spin but feel more speed,solid maybe because the ball is heavy.
no broken sound.



-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 11:23pm
Thanks nittakuball.Thumbs Up

Yes I think the 'broken ball' sound only comes from the seamless balls.


-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 11:27pm
That's understandable as the new Nittaku ball does not let light through much.



-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 06/12/2014 at 11:37pm
Nice picture for comparison. You're right, they are much less translucent!



-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 12:40am
Hmm... how can it be so heavy if it has to comply with the rules about weight?


-------------
Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member

Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 12:53am
The heaviness could be due to the new material deforming less upon impact.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 1:02am
The latest issue of Table Tennis Goods contains some really fascinating articles. nittakuball, do you mind taking some closeups of these three articles, "特殊素材 コンプリートマニュアル", "フォア&バック 打球感の深~い関係", "“弾道”から見る用具のコントロール"?

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:12am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Hmm... how can it be so heavy if it has to comply with the rules about weight?

I've also heard they (the main manufacturers) are trying to make them as heavy as possible within the legal limits (tolerance), so they may in fact be heavier than celluloid balls.




-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:47am
because of the ball is abit heavy and thicker so the ball feel very solid when blocking a loop.


-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:47am
pictures




-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:51am
this ball is good for hard rubbers like DHS H3
my friend is using DHS Pro H3
when I block his loop the ball feel so solid I feel a lot vibrations on my blade(never have this feel before when using normal nittaku ball)

-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 3:42am
The 40+ Nittaku looks so milky white. How is the texture? Any powdery dust? And what blade are you using?

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 9:36am
Great pictrures nittaku ball! Thumbs Up

The measurements are good to see... they bigger size is very obvious.

The weights comparison made me laugh LOL


-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:31pm
This is the most interesting topic for me from this week!
nittakuball:  Thank you very much for the photos and shared details! Now I feel mixed, as I almost fixed my future's combo after the knee injury recovering.
Now I will need to switch once again, may be?
I am using M.Maze ALC 90 gr. ST + Aurus Soft max both sides.
May be faster blade and hard sponged rubbers are waiting for me, because of the new ball's playing skills/specifies.
What do you think ?

Thanks in advance!



Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

This is the most interesting topic for me from this week!
nittakuball:  Thank you very much for the photos and shared details! Now I feel mixed, as I almost fixed my future's combo after the knee injury recovering.
Now I will need to switch once again, may be?
I am using M.Maze ALC 90 gr. ST + Aurus Soft max both sides.
May be faster blade and hard sponged rubbers are waiting for me, because of the new ball's playing skills/specifies.
What do you think ?

Thanks in advance!



thanks,i think this ball is good for heavy blades,fast blades and hard rubbers,advantage for player have a lot power.(because of the thicker and heavy ball)
that"s what I think but I might be wrong......

-------------
DHS 032
Butterfly Bryce Highspeed

Singapore & Canada



Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 8:05pm
Maybe the ITTF is doing their usual skirting of the rules by 'increasing the tolerance'. Thus a heavier ball.


-------------
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 06/13/2014 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Hmm... how can it be so heavy if it has to comply with the rules about weight?


+1

Sometimes the hardness of a ball deceives the feeling so the ball feels heavier, but it is actually harder...

-------------
1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 06/14/2014 at 12:01pm
Changed my mind


-------------
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: reflecx
Date Posted: 06/16/2014 at 10:13pm
Larry Hodges had a lot to say about this ball in his blog

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848" rel="nofollow - http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848




Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:03am
As long as the ball is more consistent, I am fine. It sounds like this will be the case.

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:06am
Originally posted by reflecx reflecx wrote:

Larry Hodges had a lot to say about this ball in his blog

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848" rel="nofollow - http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848



Thanks, interesting observations from Larry H 


Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:21am
Since these balls are heavier does it mean you can really give someone a good "welt" when you hit their arm or leg with it by mistake? I used to practice with a mid 2200 player that really smacked the ball...and after every session I would always have 2 or 3 good welts on my legs from some of his smashes that missed the table. Maybe you'll really feel it now when you take a good shot on the leg. 

-------------
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH
Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:00am

DOUBLE POSTING, SORRY.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:01am
Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.


http://umpire2.narod.ru/tmp4_e1.jpg" rel="nofollow">


... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.


Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:21am
What I think will happen with this new ball:

1. Lower arch on loops because heavier ball is less sensitive to aerodynamics... Also, no dramatic Maze style side spins... Dislike!

2. Heavier weight will speed up the ball, thus reduce rally. Dislike!

3. With higher speed, close to table defense got a bit more difficult. Less reaction time. Neutral

4. No spin loss over distance will gave mid table loop a boost. like!

-------------
Nittaku Acoustic
Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0
Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.


http://umpire2.narod.ru/tmp4_e1.jpg" rel="nofollow">


... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.

Per Hodges contention that the USATT will use this ball for coming ITTF tournaments puts players and coaches in a difficult situation if the ball will have a different dynamic in Jan 2016 then 2015 or late 2014.  I do like the concept of low breakage which would be a big help to many clubs but if a club goes out and buys large number of these balls in early 2015 or late 2014 and then replace them in early 2016 will be very costly.


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:39pm
Good find, Igor.Smile


-------------
Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by reflecx reflecx wrote:

Larry Hodges had a lot to say about this ball in his blog

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848" rel="nofollow - http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848



Thanks, interesting observations from Larry H 

+1! Stop speculating dudes, get some real information from larry. Very detailed, thanks Larry! 


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:16pm

So many changes over the years. What's next pink tutu's and you must win by 5? The suckometer is getting on the high side. I will lose my sidespin loop from what I am reading here. I'm not generally a negative person but this "new" ball sounds horrid.

-------------
Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:30pm
As an inveterate hook looper, this will be interesting... To be a parrot of myself, I just want a consistent ball that works with Tenergy 05... (okay, that last part was new....)


Will T05 be as high throw with the new ball? Questions...

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

As an inveterate hook looper, this will be interesting... To be a parrot of myself, I just want a consistent ball that works with Tenergy 05... (okay, that last part was new....)


Will T05 be as high throw with the new ball? Questions...


From pure physics perspective, the balls will have LOWER throw across the board. Spin will have less effect on something that's heavier.

For similar reasons, heavier (more mass) require more force to accelerate, hence lower arc 

But then I dont have the ball so I can only speculate

-------------
Nittaku Acoustic
Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0
Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 06/18/2014 at 6:35am
   Can anyone render this chinese exerption into English?

Human translator needed, not robotic.

Thanks..




  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

------------------
Full article original location

http://sz.happypingpang.cn/news/view/6635/dd4e8f2adefe1ec3b1081470f10f8afa4efa8231" rel="nofollow - http://sz.happypingpang.cn/news/view/6635/dd4e8f2adefe1ec3b1081470f10f8afa4efa8231


Posted By: nachalnik
Date Posted: 06/18/2014 at 3:42pm

There's a very good comprehensive review of the ball on the ooak forum by bogehunter.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26023" rel="nofollow - http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26023


Posted By: Donn Olsen
Date Posted: 06/18/2014 at 9:10pm
I have two observations about the Nittaku Poly Ball review:

1) I think it is very unlikely it will be the tournament ball for the U.S. Nationals.  Because the celluloid ball is still legal, and everybody has them, and recognizing that inertia is the strongest force in the universe, I anticipate many clubs and tournaments will play celluloid for a very long time, perhaps into a very distant future if the manufacturers continue supporting the celluloid ball production.  It may very well be the case that many competitive players will play for years with the celluloid ball.

If the Poly Ball is selected for the Nationals, it will hurt attendance.

What will be interesting is observing the responses of the national governing bodies around the world to the celluloid/poly ball selection.  To move to the poly ball is to suggest the throwing away of all the now-devalued celluloid balls that people now own.

The degree of resistance to the poly ball will be proportional to the degree that players are required to alter their technique. 

2) The review suggests that table tennis play will be little affected by the new ball.  If that is the case, then the ITTF has failed, for the purpose of the ball change is to appreciably alter the game by slowing it down.  The purpose of the ball change is to not slightly change the game, but significantly change the play dynamics.

Thanks............Donn


-------------
Donn Olsen - The PATT Institute


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 06/18/2014 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Since these balls are heavier does it mean you can really give someone a good "welt" when you hit their arm or leg with it by mistake? I used to practice with a mid 2200 player that really smacked the ball...and after every session I would always have 2 or 3 good welts on my legs from some of his smashes that missed the table. Maybe you'll really feel it now when you take a good shot on the leg. 
 
 
Yup, in Korea this would be important. I am so happy PP ball is not like golf ball or we would be in a world of warrior hurt.


-------------
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: j-bo
Date Posted: 06/25/2014 at 10:01am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.


http://umpire2.narod.ru/tmp4_e1.jpg" rel="nofollow">


... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.


So why not shelve the poly ball all together until 2016 when they can actually get it "right"??

Seems like they don't want to tick off the manufacturers who have been in mass production for these poly balls, so they will let the public use their monies to fund a ball that won't be legal to use in 2 years.

Gotta love the laugh-ability of it all. ITTF..pffft.

This article deserves a thread of it's own so it doesn't get lost. I'm sure the public would want to know that the ball they are buying now is "temporary".


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 07/24/2014 at 9:22pm
I had a chance to hit a little with this ball yesterday.  We were essentially just warming up and getting a feel for the ball.
Based on the threads I've read on this, I was expecting much worse.  It's really not that bad.
The ball is slower and it doesn't spin as much, but otherwise I didn't notice any other differences.  Due to the slower spin and less spin, blocking was MUCH easier.  
I had very little trouble blocking his loops, but with a celluloid ball I usually have a lot of trouble because of the excessive side spin.  Likewise he had very little trouble blocking my loops, whereas it used to give him some trouble.  I did find that after a couple of loops I had to lift the ball more and re-spin to get the ball over.  I couldn't drive it as much.  After re-spinning it I could get a couple more loops in and then rinse and repeat.  

I didn't get a chance to try serving or receiving but I suspect it would be easier to return serves due to less spin.

I think at levels under 2000 the advantage will shift towards the defensive players who keep the ball on the table and wait for a mistake from the opponent.  It's just much easier to keep it on the table and return loops and drives.  So the more consistent player has the advantage.  At the higher levels where the consistency is already there, I'm not sure.

I think the people that try to hit the ball through you instead of away from you will run into big trouble.  It really is to your benefit to focus more on placement. 


Posted By: tianhai
Date Posted: 07/25/2014 at 2:46am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/25/2014 at 6:59am
Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.


Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 07/25/2014 at 9:37am
The new 40+ balls I tried felt terrible. The ball seems slower off the racket, but with less spin and bounce the ball bounces lower, so it has the effect of "kicking" off the table, so it feels a bit faster off the bounce. 

The clear lack of spin is what I don't like. I was having trouble getting the ball over the net. Clearly this is a ball for hitters, defenders, pips, etc. Or professional level Chinese players who are basically hitting/smashing the ball when they hit loops. Amateur-level Euro/Japanese style Tenergy loopers like me are getting the short end of the stick. I may need to change my name to HITMEISTER or DRIVEMEISTER in a year or so if these balls actually take hold. LOL

And the sound they make! Sounds like a regular ball with a huge crack in it.

BOOOOOO! Thumbs Down




-------------


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/25/2014 at 10:08am
Worse, play with the new balls for about three sessions, and then go back and try to play with regular celluloid.  I did that this week.  My timing with the old balls last night was completely shot, it was the 9th circle of table tennis hell.


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 07/25/2014 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Worse, play with the new balls for about three sessions, and then go back and try to play with regular celluloid.  I did that this week.  My timing with the old balls last night was completely shot, it was the 9th circle of table tennis hell.



Myself and another guy played with the new ball last Wednesday night. He is a heavy spinner from both sides, the new ball messed his timing up a lot. I am more of a loop hitter from both sides, the new ball did not mess up my timing. I just had to watch the bounce which is different then react.   

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/15/2014 at 1:08pm
I just went back and read Larry's comments about the Nittaku ball.  It is exactly what I felt also.  Definitely better than Joola. 


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 08/15/2014 at 6:43pm
Hopefully these will become the norm and standard for other companies. Your scale is not accurate enough to measure true weight since the ITTF reads a range between 2.67 and 2.77. So it might round the 2.5 to a 3 and a 2.49 to a 2.

If someone please get a more accurate scale readings for the weight that way we wont have bunch of 2g and 3g posted here, because that range is wayyyyyyyyy to big to post and suggest that one ball is 1/3 lighter than another.

-------------
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm
USATT: 1725


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 08/15/2014 at 11:46pm
One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.

-------------
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: hithithit
Date Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:07am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.


In the OP's case, where the scale's precision is to the gram, the OP would need 100 balls minimum to get a reliable 2 decimal point average.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:23am
hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 


Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 08/17/2014 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 08/17/2014 at 8:57pm
talking to one of the local club principle's today his take was that none of the local clubs including  those with  strong training program would be using them due to cost.  


Posted By: tianhai
Date Posted: 08/17/2014 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing

I agree. You need to rub the ball more to create the arc that can be created easily with old balls.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 12:20am

Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 12:54am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
YES, this is what makes our sport so special, spectecular and enjoyable!

-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?
Is there any evidence that games with the new balls will be any more attractive?

I guess I'm only a fool, why trust my opinion? Embarrassed

Let me ask you 2 questions igorponger
1. Who is more important to our sport, the players and participants, or the spectators?

2. What do you think of an organisation that makes changes to a sport that will make it more expensive, without doing the research or providing independant evidence that the change will be for the benefit of the sport?






-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:29am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.



Posted By: tianhai
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:57am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
YES, this is what makes our sport so special, spectecular and enjoyable!

-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?
Is there any evidence that games with the new balls will be any more attractive?

I guess I'm only a fool, why trust my opinion? Embarrassed

Let me ask you 2 questions igorponger
1. Who is more important to our sport, the players and participants, or the spectators?

2. What do you think of an organisation that makes changes to a sport that will make it more expensive, without doing the research or providing independant evidence that the change will be for the benefit of the sport?


Actually I feel that with a ball that is more difficult to spin, it will be more difficult to create arc and the ball will go into the net more often. Error rate will go up and the number of rallies will be reduced. Spectators will be bored to keep watching the players make simple mistake and have lesser rallies.. 


Posted By: schen
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 2:24am
Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Actually I feel that with a ball that is more difficult to spin, it will be more difficult to create arc and the ball will go into the net more often. Error rate will go up and the number of rallies will be reduced. Spectators will be bored to keep watching the players make simple mistake and have lesser rallies.. 

I agree and noticed this in the CTTSL final with Zhang Jike and Ovtcharov, a lot of unusual errors and lackluster rallies with the two-toned plastic ball compared to what we've seen both players pull off in the past.  Watching matches with the plastic ball was a bit disappointing


-------------
http://bit.ly/1clQmfp" rel="nofollow - Feedback | http://bit.ly/1rcjTiH" rel="nofollow - FOR SALE - updated Mar 19

Dynasty / H3 / H3


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:08am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.



Yes but I may have it backwards.  My initial thought is that a harder ball would feel heavier, but it was recently pointed out to me that a softer ball could also feel heavier, like when you try to kick a football that has no air in it.  Also some people have even complained that the new balls feel light!  Perhaps it depends on how you play, or maybe the whole thing is placebo effect.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:15am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is. When I was young in Stockholm, my father took me to see Kjell Johansson play Hans Alser at a sports hall on Valhallavägen, so I have been around awhile and have seen a lot of changes.  When I first started to play, speed glue was a closely kept secret among a few Hungarian players and Mark V was considered revolutionary because it was so fast and spinny.  How can you watch a match between Ma Long and ZJK, or between Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning, or between Timo Boll and Joo Se Hyuk and not think it is incredible and something totally compelling?  Guys like Johansson and Jonyer were my idols growing up, but believe me, I would much rather watch Ovtcharov play XU Xin.  I can't escape the conclusion that people who want to change this or that rule are advocating this because of deficiencies in their own games.  Can't return serve?  Dumb it down.  Can't play at pace?  Slow it down.  Can't read spin?  Change equipment to reduce spin.  Given the idiocy of some ITTF decisions I sometimes think, can't quite count to 21?  Make a game to 11. 

To love modern table tennis is not insane.  Think about what you are saying Igor.


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:38am
I agree with Igor or on all points.

Additionally, I am amazed and appalled at the footwork speed these Chinese stalwarts like Ma Long exhibit in their game. It is too fast for spectators to follow. I propose that henceforth non-Chinese players play with a 50 lb weight tied to each of their feet. The Chinese players should play with 75lb weights on each of their feet. This should help slow down their game.

If this does not do enough, we should adopt other additional measures - such as a live, sleepy scorpion on their shoulders, ready to strike when woken up by the rapid movements. Or, perhaps, a sleepy anaconda.

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Speed kills, yes.

It does.
And if the players don't amend their ways, it will, literally.

Vote Igor for President! :)

-------------
Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 9:49am
Which is more exciting to watch. 

This?


Or this?



I don't think the sport is "cretinized"


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 10:02am
I'm gonna have to go with Vladi vs Kenta on that one. ^^^

-------------
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm
USATT: 1725


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Which is more exciting to watch. 

This?


Or this?



I don't think the sport is "cretinized"



Choice #2 was much more entertaining. Although choice #1 gets props for best combover and for having superior video resolution to your average 2014 ittf webstream

-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:22am
True about the comb-over.   I almost picked a clip with Gabor Gergeley, who had a hairstyle and mustache that could have made him one of the Village People.     I think these two clips, semi-randomly picked, make the point that we may have more rallies now than we did in the past, in spite of faster equipment.  (I say semi-random because I wanted to show Igor's favorite player).  And certainly the rallies that we do have are more exciting.

This is true, in spite of the fact that serving now is infinitely more sophisticated than it was then -- because serve returns are infinitely better too.  How can you look at modern serving compared to what is seen in the Jonyer clip (or anyone else of that era) and say we have dumbed down the sport??? 

One other thing funny.  I remember wearing shorts like that. 




Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 




I think you make an interesting point here regarding the ball feeling heavier even though it's really not. It's really common for people to claim that cheap balls "light." And yet when you weigh those cheap balls they aren't lighter than better quality balls. Based on the heavy feel of the new 40+ balls, I think it's the same phenomenon in both cases.

I like Baal's idea that it has to do with the hardness of the balls.



That is correct.   Though there are ever slight variances of ball weight from one to another.....  What you feel as hard or soft when hitting any ball is not the weight of the ball, it is the compression or lack there of.  

I hit with a Joola poly ball recently and as my club mate who got them from the US open pointed out, the Joola poly ball was quite stiff when pressing your thumb into it. As a result it felt harder when hitting it.   Test this with a Nittaku 3 star Premium and some other lessor 3 star celluloid ball.   

So the next time you thing any certain ball lighter or heavier...press you thumb into it and that will tell you why. 


-------------


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 1:24pm
The unintended consequences of moving to the new balls have already started to unfold for ITTF,and local associations.  They always figured that players would come and go and the majority of players would quickly adapt, pay more  and life would move along.  Ball cost and availability are suddenly impacting club decisions to transition facing tight budgets with rents and employee expenses plus ball durability and the reality that they may have to pay double and buy anew in Jan 2016! It may be that clubs will  jack up fee's to cover these new ball costs but club owners and nonprofits will be an unhappy group they would have preferred that  rising fee's would cover rent increase or new  equipment such as tables, robots and coaching, not for balls. 


Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is.
I agree wholeheartedly with sentence number 2.  I disagree wholeheartedly with sentence number 1.

If people truly hated modern table tennis, they wouldn't be playing it and they wouldn't be posting here. People who hate modern table tennis are nowhere to be seen.  Instead, what I think is happening is that each of us mistakenly believes we know better than everyone else (and I include myself in this delusional group). Confident that we have the solution to the world's problems, we proclaim our ideas for everyone else to see, believing that if everyone else (particularly the ITTF) would listen to us then all would be well in TT land.  The problem, of course, is that no-one else is listening because we are all too busy shouting out our own truths.

This issue is exacerbated by our tendency to look at table tennis through rose coloured glasses.  Your choice between games old and new highlights that - very few of us would honestly vote for Jonyer-Orlovski over Matsudaira-Samsonov.  (I for one never want to see those shorts again, and I never want to be reminded of what I looked like back then either!!!)  But we still hear endless cries about the good old days of the 38mm ball and the sophistication of hidden serves and how superlative the game was when we were sniffing vast quantities of speed glue.  (Perhaps there's a clue there. Wink )

My take on it is that the game is doing just fine, thank you very much.  And it will continue to evolve in positive ways - even without our invaluable input. 


Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 08/18/2014 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:


Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.


I really don't understand what it is that some people hate about modern table tennis.  It is amazing as it is. When I was young in Stockholm, my father took me to see Kjell Johansson play Hans Alser at a sports hall on Valhallavägen, so I have been around awhile and have seen a lot of changes.  When I first started to play, speed glue was a closely kept secret among a few Hungarian players and Mark V was considered revolutionary because it was so fast and spinny.  How can you watch a match between Ma Long and ZJK, or between Liu Shiwen and Ding Ning, or between Timo Boll and Joo Se Hyuk and not think it is incredible and something totally compelling?  Guys like Johansson and Jonyer were my idols growing up, but believe me, I would much rather watch Ovtcharov play XU Xin.  I can't escape the conclusion that people who want to change this or that rule are advocating this because of deficiencies in their own games.  Can't return serve?  Dumb it down.  Can't play at pace?  Slow it down.  Can't read spin?  Change equipment to reduce spin.  Given the idiocy of some ITTF decisions I sometimes think, can't quite count to 21?  Make a game to 11. 

To love modern table tennis is not insane.  Think about what you are saying Igor.
I can't escape the conclusion that people who DON'T want to change are advocating this because of deficiencies in their OWN games. A good player will be always be a good player. It's the players that have holes in their game that will suffer, because their fragile games cannot adjust. You should think about what you are saying Baal.
In our modern world, where people get bored after 2 seconds. You need to find ways to capture the audience. Tennis has lost spin and speed as well, with their ban of spaghetti pattern and contant slowing down of courts. Try getting a normal person to watch table tennis, they get turned off really quick. Even many tt players at the club can't watch table tennis. You're living in la la land if you think nothing is wrong when the best players in the world are playing in empty stadiums, super league losing money, 90% of private clubs losing money, superleague losing money, bundesliga losing money. Stop dreaming, open your eyes. 


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 12:02am
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

I can't escape the conclusion that people who DON'T want to change are advocating this because of deficiencies in their OWN games. A good player will be always be a good player. It's the players that have holes in their game that will suffer, because their fragile games cannot adjust. You should think about what you are saying Baal.
In our modern world, where people get bored after 2 seconds. You need to find ways to capture the audience. Tennis has lost spin and speed as well, with their ban of spaghetti pattern and contant slowing down of courts. Try getting a normal person to watch table tennis, they get turned off really quick. Even many tt players at the club can't watch table tennis. You're living in la la land if you think nothing is wrong when the best players in the world are playing in empty stadiums, super league losing money, 90% of private clubs losing money, superleague losing money, bundesliga losing money. Stop dreaming, open your eyes. 


You have no evidence that the current pace and athleticism of the sport is responsible for any of the things you mention.  It is complex.  I think a much better case can be made that slowing and dumbing the game down will not help.  I have lived through a lot of changes now (the first time I played Danny Seemiller he had red rubber on both sides).  These changes have not helped -- well, at least not all of them have.  At least a few have alienated players who at the end of the day are what keep the sport going,.  The consequences of the costs of these balls may come back and bite.  This will have a big impact on private clubs.  Do you really think that modern table tennis is that bad to watch?  Really?  I don't know anybody who plays seriously who thinks that.  Confused  And you think that match I posted from 1979 was better??????????? 

Anyway, one other thing needs to be mentioned.  The change from 38mm to 40mm was handled a lot better.  To be honest, I never thought it was that big a deal, although I know some disagree.   Now we face a weird transitional period in which we have to deal with both kinds of balls, in which many of the new balls are clearly very bad but expensive and we don't know if they will get better.  This is a major self inflicted wound for the sport and was totally unnecessary.  People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.  Our Betters are telling us how things should be and no matter ill conceived and poorly executed, we should stand up and admire their Wisdom. 

We will get past this, but make no mistake, this time it is hurting the sport.  The one thing that may keep it from being a really big disaster is if these Nittaku Japan balls become the dominant technology at a reasonable price.


Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 4:16am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.
I do wish people wouldn't continue to propagate this myth that I love everything the ITTF does. Thumbs Down That has never, ever been true. If you check your facts, you will find that I was the first person over at OOAK to suggest a protest against the introduction of the 40mm ball, and on the thread about establishing a players' association I wrote in July 2012: "Imagine if the top 1,000 players all threatened to boycott the next WTTC unless an assurance was given that the 40+mm poly ball would play exactly the same way as the old 38mm celluloid ball!" People conveniently forget what actually happens because it's more fun to be outraged than it is to be reasonable.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 9:02am
@Popperlocker
Sir,
Many thanks for being of the same thinking to mine.. So good to hear from a conscious man.
Kindly leave Baal alone.
He is unable to do our sport any marked harm.
Yes, he is a true mastermind of the old playing school and skilled talker,, still unable to talk Sharara out of the plastic. Never.

SLOWER BALL IS THE BLESSED INNOVATION.

1) We must to invariably look to keep up our sport healthy and wealthy.
The celluloid ball has now got too speedy, difficult to control, thus detrimental element of the modern game..   
Slower ball of plastic proved to offer an easy controllable play, hence is going to do very well for the good of the sport.

2) My superior concern of today's is those rubber developers who got obsessed with "speed zeal".
In response to the slower plastic ball, all the major manufacs have now started out for a new generation of tensored rubber with a 'super catapulta buit-in' so as to speed up the game by far,
This is a true disaster to the sport. No controllable shots, endless errors, no spectacular rallies any more.

STOP THE SUPER CATAPULTA !!!

Certainly, for the good of the sport, we should now restrict and regulate any artificial speed enhancers e.g.
-oily boosters,
-catapultive rubbers.
-composite blades of aircraft materials
And suchlike, other than player's natural muscular power.


Good athleticism and playing skills is the only speed enchancer to be justified, here I stand.      


Posted By: cmugica
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 9:17am
Igor, you're going to invent hardbat.

-------------
SDC custom st
FH G-1 max
BH Evolution FX-S 1.9


Posted By: sunny
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:00am
Nittaku Premium 40+ Coming October 10

http://www.nittaku.com/products/detail/detail.php?id=533


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

People like Tassie cheer it all and turn a blind eye to the whiff of corruption that surrounded the original decision.
I do wish people wouldn't continue to propagate this myth that I love everything the ITTF does. Thumbs Down That has never, ever been true. If you check your facts, you will find that I was the first person over at OOAK to suggest a protest against the introduction of the 40mm ball, and on the thread about establishing a players' association I wrote in July 2012: "Imagine if the top 1,000 players all threatened to boycott the next WTTC unless an assurance was given that the 40+mm poly ball would play exactly the same way as the old 38mm celluloid ball!" People conveniently forget what actually happens because it's more fun to be outraged than it is to be reasonable.


Tassie, that is not really the usual tone of your comments here. If I remember you wondered what the big deal was that at the US Open there was a plan to use both celluloid and plastic!


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 11:55am
Igor, no good player is going to use something they can't control.  Feel free to use that thin rubber.  I continue to wonder how you can look at modern table tennis with celluloid and dislike it.  And you are right.  I have no influence with Sharara.  I would personally consider that a badge of honor since people are judged by the friends they keep.  I don't write him letters, I don't call him on the phone and I certainly don't believe he would listen to me. 

Here is one last point, since this is a thread about a specific plastic balls.  How about we see what happens with these balls before making still more changes?




Posted By: Gino
Date Posted: 08/19/2014 at 4:45pm
Don't know what the public feel while watching TT. But playing TT you can compare it with music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkXOpJU5CV0" rel="nofollow - TT in the 90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SBw11Sa4yk" rel="nofollow - TT with plastic (for those with a poster of Sharara above their bed)

Or in a classical way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sentB_7U7yY" rel="nofollow - TT in the 90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EGKpbIBuw" rel="nofollow - TT with plastic (really really sucks)



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net