Blade Speed Comparison Sheet
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Topic: Blade Speed Comparison Sheet
Posted By: h0n1g
Subject: Blade Speed Comparison Sheet
Date Posted: 07/06/2017 at 10:45pm
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Given that most of the links are buried in the original thread started by slevin, I wanted to make a separate post that we can perhaps get pinned so people can continuously contribute. Here's the original quote
The link to the spreadsheet is https://tinyurl.com/445tncuk" rel="nofollow - tinyurl.com/445tncuk The Submission Form is here: https://goo.gl/VU3Mp8" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/VU3Mp8 UPDATED June 21 2023 Please contribute your findings as this is the only way how to keep this alive. Thank you! ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
slevin wrote:Replies:
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 1:21am
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Mind that there are notable exceptions to the observed "direct correlation between blade speed and frequency". In my experience the frequency is rather representative of blade stiffness. Anyways, here is another method for determining the main frequency, copied and slightly edited from http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38419&PID=473082&title=estimating-blade-stiffness-through-sound-recording#473082" rel="nofollow - this post of mine , back in 2010.
Update: in the "Axis" drop down menu, use "Log frequency" instead of "Linear frequency". The peak will be easier to select. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Bobpuls
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 1:50am
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Hmmm i do not trust this ones ..... Cause some wood in combination with carbon or aramid or other woods create different sound ... this way you can measure only the stiffness but not the speed .... My fastest blade which i have has very low sound but simple carbon blade with balsa core and carbon has high pitch ass hell but still they are not so fast .... ------------- Custom carbon/aramid off FH DHS H8 BH DHS TG 3-60 Custom carbon off++ FH DHS TG2 BS BH DHS TG3-60 National |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 1:54am
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Are there exceptions? Yes. Is there a overwhelming numbers of actual correlations between frequency and speed so far? Yes. is it the end all-be-all? No. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: Bobpuls
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 1:55am
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ok some correlations are there ... ------------- Custom carbon/aramid off FH DHS H8 BH DHS TG 3-60 Custom carbon off++ FH DHS TG2 BS BH DHS TG3-60 National |
Posted By: BaiMile
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 3:19am
| https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/06/the-example-of-the-comparison-by-performance-indices/" rel="nofollow - HERE you can read more about performance indices. What is interesting is that Stiga clipper is much faster than carbon blades, according this lab tests. But I don't think it is in reality. |
Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 9:41am
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To me the whole story with the frequencies is ridiculously funny..... needless to say more. BTW, I own a small professional recording and mastering studio ------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 10:57am
Please enlighten us heathens and don't keep all the fun to yourself. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 3:42pm
The problem is that I could not find a post explaining how the author converts the frequency response spectrum to the performance indices, i.e. how to actually calculate these indices. http://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/06/performance-indices-the-way-to-evaluatie-blade-by-measurement/" rel="nofollow - Here he explains that the parameters are related to the spectrum, but not how. Did I overlook something? Without this information, the indices are useless because we have to trust them blindly. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 4:16pm
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BTW, there was a similar effort to define objective blade characteristics on a separate website by forum member igsstern several
years ago. If I remember well, he is Korean. He used 5 indices: speed
level, bending stiffness, overall feel, index finger feel, repulsion
feel. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47778&PID=714307&title=nexy-clan#714307" rel="nofollow - Here is a description of the indices that I had saved before the pages went offline. I noticed that the data published by TTGearLab, is somewhat related, so it could be that the same - or a similar - machine is used. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: man_iii
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 4:42pm
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I'm not sure but is FRF the frequency plot of the noise generated by the bare blade when a poly-ball is bouncing on it with regular frequency ? I think if the vibration and sound produced by the blade when the ball bounces relates to the way the blade flexes, then the highest peak and lowest trough ... would correspond somehow to the flexing / torsion ? So if you take the first highest peak ( Natural frequency maybe ? ) and the 2nd higher peak ... those would give the max kick ... and energy loss due to vibration ( storing of the energy? ) and the deep trough surrounded by peaks, might indicate perhaps flex ( how bendy the blade is getting, before rebounding? ) maybe also blade dwell time might be how wide each peak or trough is or how many of them there are ? I dunno all this theory science stuff :-P :-) |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 4:43pm
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I also find the information on ttgearlabs website a bit lacking. There is neither enough information for an outsider to determine on how those indices are calculated, nor to fully understand what he actually means by each one. Furthermore I sometimes find that the sloppy english on the website does not facilitate said understanding. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 5:16pm
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Anything can be exercised to the extreme. I'm not interested in buying laser tracking equipment to track ball-bounce and reflex speed in nano-seconds. My interest was much like Slevin's original post - get a ROUGH idea of the blade speed before you buy a $100, $150, $200 or $250 blade. I believe the frequency testing as outlined provides this. This isn't supposed to be super-accurate nor should it ever be the ONLY consideration. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: 6Finger
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 5:25pm
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Here you can find some relevant info on the subject https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/04/25/introduction-to-table-tennis-blade-design/ I have been testing many blades for over a year now and allways checked frequency and so far it's spot on. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 7:33pm
I agree with you that it is fun to try to get the most out of data that everyone can easily record and contribute. I have been recording sounds for all blades I have bought, traded, or borrowed over the last years. Still, I believe the testing as outlined provides stiffness information, not speed. In other words, by means of the highest-spectral-peak technique you get rather accurate info on the stiffness of the blade, not of speed. Obviously, stiffness contributes to speed to some extent. So the formula "frequency proportional to speed" may reasonably work for some kind of blades, but not others. It we could figure out for which it does work, we can point this out in the table, or maybe define groups of blades that can be reliably compared to each other, but not to blades in the other groups... If there's a way to get speed information by taking into account other easily measurable parameters, I would be happy to know. This is why I referred to TTGearLab's pages: apparently he is extracting his indices from the frequency spectra. Quoting http://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/06/performance-indices-the-way-to-evaluatie-blade-by-measurement/" rel="nofollow - his analysis : "As the name itself expresses elasticity index means the elasticity (= stiffness) of blade. So it is directly concerned with speed of blade. Especially Ep is similar to speed. Ec becomes meaningful only when we hit blade very hard. The higher value of Ec means that the blade can give more ‘kick’ when we hit the blade very hard." If Ep refers to the primary deflection, and Ec to the central deflection in his drawing:  That is, the primary deflection is the first bending mode, and the central deflection is the 3rd bending mode in these figures:   If this is correct, it's the first bending mode frequency that expresses a blade's speed, while the 3rd bending mode (the peak that is normally reported) amounts for the extra "kick" that we experience when we hit the ball hard. So we would ideally need to report both peaks to get a reasonable idea of the blade's speed. The problem is that, if I understand correctly, the 1st bending mode can only reliably be measured when the blade is clamped in a vice or similar, because otherwise it's deadened by the hand... At this point I can also guess that TTGearLab's other two indices Vp and Vl correspond to some other frequencies, e.g. the frequencies of the 1st and 2nd twisting modes (or 1st twisting and 2nd bending): "Vibration index means the level of vibration. Vp is directly concerned with longitudinal bending vibration, and it is mainly transferred to player’s palm. Vl is concerned with lateral vibration of blade head, and player can feel it at fingertip of index finger. So Vp and Vl can be translated as ‘feeling’. The higher value of Vp or Vl means sharper feeling." But I'm just guessing. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 07/07/2017 at 8:41pm
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Few questions: what mic would give the best results recording the sound of a blade? Condenser, dynamic, tube or ribbon? Which polar pattern? Do we all have to record with the same mic cause otherwise the results are going to be hugely different. For example my modest and relatively cheap Neumann TLM 103 will make my blades sound way more beautiful than most here. ------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 2:08am
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The frequency of the main peak will be nearly the same. I've recorded a few blades repeatedly with different mics, mostly from mobile phones and the frequency differs at most by about 20-30Hz. Try it. It is way more crucial that you hold the blade weigh the same strength each time. The easiest is as lightly as possible. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 2:10am
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Not sure about the rest of the spectrum. If you have access to professional equipment it would be useful if you could make a simultaneous recording with a mobile phone as well and post the differences. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 7:11am
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I dare saying that even the mobile phone mics vary drastically, so to have reliable results you must set a standard, or a reference mic, (S7+ for example) , than you should set a distance from the source......and still that's all veeery vague . The only way I see it is to set those standards and compare blades ONLY from the same brand and model(TB ALC for example) There are tons of spectrum analyser software, plug ins or stand-alone, but the results will be as good as the mic will be. With other words the better the mic, the louder the record,the more the harmonics , the better the results ------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 7:30am
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You need an accelerometer or a strain gauge if you want to measure the first few modes, with reliable accuracy. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 8:27am
Maybe in practice, the differences are not as big as you think they are for the specific thing being looked at? We aren't doing precision rocket science here or making commercial quality music. We are testing blades and allowing a margin of error of 100Hz. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 9:58am
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I didn't think for a moment that we were doing precision rocket science or a commercial music. No, not me. I am here because I love ttennis and BTW all the blades I have or had are/were in similar range OFF/OFF+ , all of them having different structure, thickness, flex and sound. So I say the sound can not be a factor telling me how quick or flexible a blade will be. Bye ------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 10:59am
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No, please wait Kolev - we need you :) Let's just take one step at a time. We don't need to accurately compare blade speed yet. What we want to know now is whether the first and second bending mode offer any new insight compared to what the third bending mode told us already. Therefore it would be very nice if someone with the neccesary knowledge and equipment could aid us by trying to measure those mid to low freqs below 1khz. A mic with good resolution and somewhat linear response in the low freqs could do the trick. Kolev, you argue that there are too many variables to make any claims judging from frequency response, but you fail to acknowledge that we can isolate at least some of those variables. For example, weight comes to mind easily. Eventually we might not be able to accurately compare blade speed, but we will be able to make better judgements when buying a new blade (if we know its freq resp). |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 4:25pm
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Answering a few of the recent post: For the lower freq, the problem is not just the mic, it's how the blade is hold/fixed, because the vibrations will be partially absorbed by the hand and not generate sound. Accelerometers or strain gages fixed to the back side of the blade would make things easier, but again the blade needs to be clamped to vibrate. Moreover, if we start adding sensors or more complicated equipment, then very few people could contribute, and we're trying to see where we can get with equipment that is available in (nearly) every home. The lower frequency modes are in the 100-1000 Hz range. From some frequency response cuve I've seen http://blog.faberacoustical.com/2009/ios/iphone/iphone-microphone-frequency-response-comparison/" rel="nofollow - here , you can expect a decent smartphone mic to have a decently flat response between 200 Hz and 2 kHz, where the main speech frequencies are. For everything above or below, I think Kolev is right, you need better equipment. Not sure how good the mics from current flagship phones are, but I suppose they are optimised for small size, not flat frequency response. You may be better off with some flagship from few generations ago, like the Nokia phones with HAAC microphones. Distance from source, height of drop, etc. do not count, because we just care about the intensity of peaks (or, at most, at some future point, the relative intensity between peaks). So the actual sound level should not be relevant. Different software will create (slightly) different spectra, and that's also fine: the peaks will be at the right place, 30Hz more or less won't matter too much. Blade weight has very little influence on the spectra. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 4:28pm
Different sound, yes. Different main peak frequencies in the spectra? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 6:26pm
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All: may I suggest that we only use this thread to post blade peak amplitude frequencies? Let us post all discussions in the other thread I started. Keep this one clean. ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 6:49pm
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It doesn't matter if the blade is clamped or gripped by the hand, an accelerometer or strain gauge will pick up what the mic can't. BTW, a clamped blade behaves far differently from a gripped blade. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 9:44pm
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So if I was a robot holding a blade by clamping I would experience different playing characteristics then the rest of you? Lol, sorry :P |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/08/2017 at 11:32pm
This ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:28am
You mean everyone has to copy over their posts to the other thread? Btw, didn't h0n1g create a site for reporting the frequencies (first post), so should we use his tool or post them here? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:30am
You already do when you grip your blade hard for driving or lightly for soft-blocking. Edit: Typo ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:37am
Not so sure. Sound is emitted by the air moved by the vibration of the blade face. If the hand deadens the vibrations, why would a mechanical sensor pick it up? It may be more sensitive, but these frequencies will still have lower intensity than if the blade is clamped. Or am I wrong? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:37am
I believe slevins point was that there are already 2 threads with detailed (IMO too detailed) discussions about the scientific methods that can be used to grasp/measure blade speed/attributes and this thread was simply meant as a forum to report results using the form or even post them here (I will then add them manually). This wasn't supposed to be the third thread discussing the pros and cons of this method. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 2:45am
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Then I suppose we should ask a mod to move all the comment posts to the other thread to clean this one up... ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 3:21am
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... And it would be necessary to edit the first post and thread title to remove the reference to blade speed, or else people will inevitably object also in future. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/09/2017 at 4:09am
Because the vibration gets damped, which means less strong but not totally nullified, enough to be measured by an accelerometer or strain gauge that a mic might otherwise not pick up. For the first mode, there is a pair of corresponding nodes in the blade head and handle. This mode gets excited really violently unless you hit the nodes. The ears may not hear it, but if the hand can feel it, so can the accelerometer or strain gauge. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/11/2017 at 10:43pm
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added a bunch of submissions today. Thank you everyone for contributing ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/11/2017 at 11:22pm
great work! Thanks, h0n1g for setting this all up. ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/12/2017 at 1:58pm
hey! it was your idea! ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/16/2017 at 4:30pm
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added Tibhar VS Unlimited. Again, very reflective of perceived speed I find. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/22/2017 at 11:05pm
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updated ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/28/2017 at 2:28am
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updated a large number of blades today, courtesy of shaibu and slevin. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 7:53pm
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updated again. Lots of Yinhe blades added. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: book4all
Date Posted: 07/31/2017 at 10:10pm
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Four Friendship/729 V-6 blades: 1) Shakehand, 1476 89.5g 2) Shakehand, 1429, 93.7g 3) C-Penhold, 1523, 81.8g 4) C-Penhold, 1476, 79.6g Used both Nittaku 3 Star 40+ and DHS 3 Star new material D40+ balls. Both are plastic balls. The recorded frequencies are the same.
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Posted By: wanchope
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 1:22pm
Hi there. What was your result of Nittaku S5? ------------- Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1 |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 3:43pm
Mine had some sort of plateau, made of two main frequencies: one was 1400Hz, the other 1580Hz. The average would be 1490Hz. See the attached pictures, which come from two separate measurements. It would be interesting to have other data points and see whether other blades have this twin peaks, as well.   ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 5:27pm
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I can provide you with some raw data giving you headaches. I found this 'twin peak' or 'multiple peak' issue in a Hinotec All+ blade. (5ply, hinoki outer) The following chart displays its bouncing frequencies at similar, medium impact strenghts. The difference in gain has been adjusted ex-post.  Facts first: As we can see, the lowest peak comes in at about 1100 Hz, and the highest at about 1300 Hz. This is not consistent at all. In fact, I'm sure I can create any peak frequency in between by slightly varying hitting position and impact strenght. Also, not only peaks seem to alter, the curves as a whole seem to undergo quite drastic changes. Now some really wacky interpretation: It might be the Hinoki outer veneers that make these measurements so inconsistent. But I think it plays inconsistent as well. Slight difference in stroke, contact point or impact strenght results in extreme differences in ball lenght, speed and height. Unpredictable for me. This is too daring to say with only such limited data, but maybe inconsistencies in frequency curves lead to poor blade performance. arg0, you previously mentioned (in some other topic) that the S5 reminds you of a Hinoki blade. So I was cheeky enough to take that as red herring :P |
Posted By: wanchope
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 5:28pm
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Following these results, it's obvious that S5 is an extremely fast blade. However you saw all those people saying it actually feels slow, an off- or maybe even an all. Mine is arriving later this week. I'm so curious. ------------- Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1 |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 6:05pm
This is why I sent mine back, I mean in the assumption that it would be very fast. Maybe I got a "lemon", or we have found a flaw in the measurements (as I wrote earlier, I found that spruce or hinoki blade often show higher frequencies than their perceived speed). I'm curious about your measurements and findings. Please post at least the frequency here and your impressions in the S-5 thread. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/01/2017 at 6:12pm
Very interesting, I never saw great variations in the main peaks, even by measuring the same blade again after years, but it's true that I always hold it the exact same way and bounce the ball at the centre. Recently, I tried to hit the ball hard, rather than just let it bounce, and the frequencies of the highest peak I recorded were near identical. When hitting, I hold the blade with a normal grip and gripped it less lightly, but still the frequency was not affected. I got some "peak inversion" in the 2000-3000 Hz range, though. I'll try hitting off-centre (outside the sweet spot), though if I recall correctly, the main frequency does not change much, but the rest of the spectrum does. As to hinoki, yes, as I wrote a few minutes ago (before seeing your post), I had some "inconsistency" between main frequencies of certain blades with hinoki and spruce (they're similar types of wood) layers and perceived speed. But then, on the other hand, some other hinoki blades I measured were in the 1200-1300 Hz range, in line with their perceived speed. So... I don't know!  ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 08/04/2017 at 11:34pm
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Just got a Donic Crest AR+, 90g, measured in at 1356. Seems to me more of an OFF- than AR+ ;) ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: Pingpongplaya
Date Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:25am
| h0n1g is that an average weight or just only some available in that weight category? Typically if it's heavier it definitely seems or feels faster. Also what rubbers did you test it with. I think juic too underates their blades. As well as some andro blades |
Posted By: Pingpongplaya
Date Posted: 08/05/2017 at 12:26am
| Oh wait is this just the wood or without rubber test? Like vibration and feedback???? |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 08/05/2017 at 2:38am
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It's just blades, no rubbers. Read the first posts ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: SmileTT
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 9:39am
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Here are my findings! No real surprises to me. Recorded using Arg0's method with Audacity. Avalox BT555 85 1245 Butterfly M. Maze 88 1414 Butterfly Viscaria 85 1455 Nittaku Acoustic C-O 91 1347 Nittaku Basaltec-O 88 1402 Yinhe V-16 89 1578 Thank you h0n1g for all your work! Let's get more data in everyone! ------------- Xiom Omega IV Euro | Freitas ALC | Xiom Omega IV Euro https://tinyurl.com/yaoh8suu" rel="nofollow - Feedbacks |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:48am
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Can someone provide a link which explains how blades are rated for spin speed and control ? I don't want your theory just a manufacturers explanation. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 11:53am
| Soulspin Roots 6 Basalt 85gr. (inner) 1475. add to list using Audacity. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 3:09pm
I wish there were just one way... Each has their own criteria: some measure, some do surveys, some both. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 6:13pm
So as a consumer, we buy blades from $50-$400 without knowing if comparisons have any consistency or even accuracy ? ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/10/2017 at 6:58pm
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Accuracy within the measuring system of one brand? Likely. Disclosure of how the values are calculated? No. As a consequence: Consistency of data between brands? No. Edit: I'm obviously talking about the manufacturers' indications (which is off-topic so I stop here). ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/11/2017 at 4:48pm
And, have you had a chance to measure the frequency? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/11/2017 at 4:51pm
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Already submitted via the Google Form, but I thought I also post it here: ARTTE Nuvola ST, 85 g, 1237 Hz ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 08/20/2017 at 6:08pm
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Sheet has been updated with all submissions. I've been travelling a bit lately so slower than usual. I will try to update this once a week going forward. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: wanchope
Date Posted: 08/21/2017 at 1:36pm
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I still haven't got my blade yet.... TT11 shipping has been slow during this summer ------------- Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1 |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/02/2017 at 2:19am
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updated. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 09/02/2017 at 5:15pm
I noticed you removed most of the duplicate entries (many were in the data I provided, sorry). Unfortunately, there are still a few left. I noticed the following: Butterfly Boll Spark 89 1160 Butterfly Boll Spark 83 1162 Butterfly Boll Spark 82 1240 Butterfly Grubba ALL+ 80 1101 ITC Challenge Speed 89 1378 Stiga Clipper 91 1356 Stiga Energy Wood WRB 81 1199 I have data of a number of Nexy blades that are not in the table. What is faster for you, if I post them here or if I use the web form? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/03/2017 at 11:38am
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If you use the web from, I can just copy and paste ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 09/03/2017 at 6:47pm
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I also have expressed doubts as to whether the frequency represents blade speed, but the OP prefers to leave this topic for other threads. In any case, I don't feel Violin, even with 85+ grams, is an OFF blade. I think it's ALL+ or, at most, OFF-. I never played a Monophonic: is there really that much difference? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/03/2017 at 7:25pm
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By the way, just to be clear, I do not believe frequency represents absolute blade speed. I do believe that it is a strong indicator in most cases. I think it's great if people discuss this but we already have multiple threads on that matter and this thread in particular should just be a resource and place to share new data, not for a theory crafting discussion ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/03/2017 at 7:26pm
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I would agree with arg0 on the Violin, I would def not rate it OFF even at 88g with a large handle. OFF-/ALL+ is what would come to my mind. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 09/04/2017 at 3:29pm
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I cannot confirm since I never used the Android app, but the numbers seem plausible to me.
------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/04/2017 at 11:32pm
That is correct ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 09/05/2017 at 12:25pm
I would like to know the numbers for rosewood7 eb7 and carbonados |
Posted By: darucla
Date Posted: 09/05/2017 at 1:09pm
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I'm pretty sure that the first 2 "DHS" blades in the list, T11+ and N9, are in fact Yinhe/Galaxy. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/05/2017 at 7:21pm
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Updated and fixed ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 09/10/2017 at 1:57am
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Updated ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 09/14/2017 at 3:59pm
| Blades by Levi Cedar/Basalt/Cedar/Kiri. 1558. 87g |
Posted By: 6Finger
Date Posted: 10/11/2017 at 3:49am
| Any Tibhar Samsonov Stratus Carbon blades around, really interested to see the measurment. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 10/11/2017 at 6:33pm
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h0n1g, here's over 50 more data points that I have measured over time. I found no duplicates with those currently in the database. Putting those individually into the submission form would take me ages, so I'm attaching a CSV file to this post. Let me know if you have problems in copy-pasting from it. Note: I had to rename it to .csv.txt, otherwise the system would not let me upload it. Just remove the .txt extension. uploads/20417/Frequencies.csv.txt" rel="nofollow - uploads/20417/Frequencies.csv.txt Note that the BBC blade on line 2 is called 9-10-9. I had to put it between single quotes in the CSV file, otherwise Excel would interpret it as a date. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: SmileTT
Date Posted: 10/12/2017 at 9:35am
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That's a lot of great data arg0! I'm happy I could see ratings for many different nexy blades that I have been curious about. ------------- Xiom Omega IV Euro | Freitas ALC | Xiom Omega IV Euro https://tinyurl.com/yaoh8suu" rel="nofollow - Feedbacks |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 10/12/2017 at 10:07pm
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Yes... well, still a few missing... what would be a good way to supplement the data? Could a vendor kick in... maybe? ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: 6Finger
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 9:59am
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Added my new Stiga Clipper, also weighted and measured frequency on a bunch of blades. From what I can remeber: 4 different Celero blades all similar weight all in the 1150 range 3 or 4 Allround NCT all 75 grams all in the 1100-1120 range Carbonado 90, 86 grams, 1350ish |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 10:37am
whats the number for a clipper? |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 11:10am
Off the chart, Clipper Wood had two measurements averaging 1310. |
Posted By: 6Finger
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 12:05pm
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Clipper was 85 grams and 1280. Lightest and slowest one they had. Usually non wrb ones with legend handle are 95+ grams. Extra 10 grams gives it soeed too. |
Posted By: Hudoi
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 5:13pm
| ?Хиггс 1100 ? Медленнее Фанатика ?! |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 10/17/2017 at 5:27pm
Use English please. Google translate translates to ""Higgs 1100?" Slower Fanatic?" Doesn't make much sense to me. Anyway, Nexy Higgs is advertised as a fast blade. Mine wasn't. It would help getting frequency data from another Higgs. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Hudoi
Date Posted: 10/18/2017 at 4:15pm
| ?In Your table the Higgs frequency 1180. The Fanatic frequency 1491. But the manufacturer says that the Higgs faster blade than a Fanatic ...And You get the opposite ? |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 10/18/2017 at 5:54pm
Oh, I see: what is auto-translated into "Fanatic" is actually the "Zealot" blade! Yes, this is what I get: Higgs has a much lower frequency than Zealot. My playing impressions confirm this: I played with Higgs several months ago and with Zealot recently. I can confirm that Zealot is a rather fast and rigid blade, while I did not like Higgs and found it rather slow (I put slow rubbers on Higgs expecting it to be fast, so my comparison may not be 100% accurate). It could be that my Higgs is a lemon (bad sample, or broken), or that the manufacturer data not accurate. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Hudoi
Date Posted: 10/19/2017 at 6:02pm
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?I use the Fanatic + Tenerjee 05 + Karis M + (2.2). And Higgs + Karis M + (2.0) + Nittaku Fastak G1 for 6 months, ... It seems to me that Higgs is faster, more powerful (but I'm not a pro, but an advanced amateur ...). In your case, I doubt that Nexi can make a substandard product ... although ... And also: Higgs has 7 layers of wood, and the Fanatic has 5. It says something about something. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 10/19/2017 at 7:08pm
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Indeed, Higgs is 7-ply and advertised as fast, so I was puzzled about my Higgs being rather slow. But the frequency I measured seems to confirm this. Maybe my blade got damaged. It would be interesting if you could measure the frequencies of your blades, so we can compare. BTW, I'm not a Pro either, and probably not even an "advanced" amateur. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 10/21/2017 at 11:22am
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Was out sick for a while. Finally fully updated the list with arg0s latest data set. Thanks a lot for that, it's a lot of good data. I'm pretty excited to see the amount of blades in this 'database' by now. Good work everyone who contributed! ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/21/2017 at 8:15pm
i have a clipper and a eb7.some rubbers make the eb7 slower than clipper while eb7 is off+ and clipper is off.do you know why? |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 10/30/2017 at 9:45pm
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Sheet is updated. I measured an authentic DHS W968. Very interesting to see the comparison with the HL5. ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 10/30/2017 at 11:11pm
| Thanks. Really appreciate all of your efforts. |
Posted By: windysummer1
Date Posted: 11/05/2017 at 12:55pm
| so which blade is the fastest so far (NOT including 1-ply hinoki)? xiom axelo? |
Posted By: h0n1g
Date Posted: 11/13/2017 at 12:26am
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updated with lots of new blades. Starting to become a real collection ------------- --- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread |
Posted By: vispowerspin
Date Posted: 11/25/2017 at 12:30pm
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Hypotheses is spelt wrong ------------- W968 FH: T05 BH: T05 |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 11/25/2017 at 3:51pm
No, "hypotheses" is spelled right.  ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: vispowerspin
Date Posted: 11/27/2017 at 11:38am
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Hahaha, hypotheses is the correct spelling. In the spreadsheet it is written as "hypothises" ------------- W968 FH: T05 BH: T05 |