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Hurricane 3 Advice please

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Topic: Hurricane 3 Advice please
Posted By: ericd937
Subject: Hurricane 3 Advice please
Date Posted: 09/08/2019 at 9:42pm
About 2 weeks ago, I started playing with commercial Hurricane 3 Neo. Initially, I scraped off the factory glue layer and boosted it with 2 thin layers of Reviver Phoenix. I pasted it on an XVT Hinoki ALC blade, which was terrible and the setup felt hard as a rock. Actually, I don't like that blade with any rubbers. So, it wasn't a big surprise that I didn't like that setup. 

So, I took off the rubber, added two more layers of Reviver Phoenix, waited for the dome to relax slightly, and glued it on my Stiga Clipper Wood. Here, it plays pretty nice. After playing with that setup for about 10 or 12 sessions, I can see a lot of the benefits of this type of rubber. Pushes are loaded. I can attack a lot of balls near the net that I couldn't attack with Tenergy. Loops near the table are loaded with spin and have decent power. The control is outstanding. Without the tensor effect, its just super easy for me to understand how this rubber is going to behave when I hit against all kinds of spin. 

However, there are some drawbacks which I think might be improved by upgrading to a better version of Hurricane 3 and getting a slightly softer sponge or possibly by changing it to a different blade. I think the commercial Hurricane 3 Neo I got is 2.15 thickness and 40 degrees hardness. Even though its boosted, its pretty terrible at passive blocking. Which sometimes is required when opponents make strong attacks which put me out of position. It's also super terrible at driving and flat hitting. Additionally, at mid distance and beyond, it lacking power. I expected these drawbacks, but not to this extreme. 

So, I'm thinking of some solutions:

A: Changing blades (Currently on Clipper Wood)
I have a few other blades laying around that I could try. Those blades include Clipper CR, Timo Boll Spirit, Xiom Zetro Quad, and two Sittho (Siam Ping Pong) custom blades. One is Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki the other is Hinoki-T5000-Hionki-T5000-Hinoki. 

B. Boosting it more. I've boosted it twice, but with only two thin layers each time. I don't think this would be the best option. 

C. Trying another variation of Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo. The main ones I'm considering are Nittaku Hurricane 3 Neo, Hurricane 3 Provincial 39 degrees orange sponge, Hurricane 3 Provincial 39 degrees blue sponge. 

D. A combination of the above options. 


The most affordable of the rubbers is the NITTAKU Hurricane 3 Neo. TT11 has it on sale for 28 bucks and the store down the street here in Saigon has it for 33. H3 Provincial orange sponge is only 7 to 10 bucks more than that, but the blue sponge is around 55 bucks. Is it worth it? 

Any advice you guys could give me would be appreciated. Thanks!


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Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3



Replies:
Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 09/08/2019 at 10:20pm
Get a H3 prov 39 degree orange sponge and call it a day. Never used reviver Phoenix but 3 layers of FTL works fine. 


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/08/2019 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by vik2000 vik2000 wrote:

Get a H3 prov 39 degree orange sponge and call it a day. Never used reviver Phoenix but 3 layers of FTL works fine. 

Hmmm I just contacted the local shops here in Saigon, they don't have that. I'd have to order it. They have Nittaku Hurricane 3 Pro Turbo Orange sponge (I'm not sure about the hardness). Commercial Hurricane 3 orange sponge at 38 or 40 Hardness. And, DHS Hurricane 3 provincial blue sponge 39 degrees hardness, but its way overpriced at about 75 bucks. They other two are reasonable prices. I don't really know much about the Nittaku variant. 



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Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 1:33am
Alright! I found a DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial Orange Sponge in 39 degrees locally. They are shipping it to my house today. 

In the meantime, I'm going to try the Commercial Hurricane 3 Neo on the Sittho Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki blade. 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 8:35am
Carbon blade and hard rubbers are not the best combination, regardless of blade model. Try all wood blade (but expect setup to be slow, like OFF-) 

If you are exploring H3 commercial options and still want it on carbon blade then go for H3 commercial old version - 2.15 H38. It plays well on carbon. Boosting is matter of taste. After 10 sessions it will soften more and will become a spin robot :)


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Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 8:56am
Hi Eric
Don't pay extra more $ on the prov, NT or blue sponge.
PM me your postal address. I will send you some H3.
Play them, and compare them over all the H3 you have played.
If they are similar to that sheet, then they are free, you can throw them to the bin and throw my words to the window.
If they are surprised good.  You can keep them as a gift.


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: yuri.saldon
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 9:52am
I do not know how phoenix reviver feels, but i boost with haifu seamoon and it is pretty good. It does not feel too hard and has plenty of speed and spin.

Do not get blue sponged because it's a lot harder than the orange sponge.


Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 11:43am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Alright! I found a DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial Orange Sponge in 39 degrees locally. They are shipping it to my house today. 

In the meantime, I'm going to try the Commercial Hurricane 3 Neo on the Sittho Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki-ALC-Hinoki blade. 

You can find all types of H3 rubbers on prott. I'd stay away from commercial because of inconsistencies. I wouldn't go as far as national versions but provincial orange can be purchased at a very reasonable cost and offers more certainty on the rubber quality. 

In my experience, Chinese rubbers don't really go with hinoki. If you are still developing, Acoustic is one of the best blades to play H3 with. Once you've developed a good technique, you can move to the likes of Viscaria, or inner carbon blades like HL5 that offer a bit more dwell time. I have to say though, Acoustic is an amazing blade to play with hard tacky Chinese rubbers. There's a reason ML used to play with Acoustic. 


Posted By: Leftstudio
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 1:43pm
Eric! dont waste money on those crappy overpriced rubbers! get some training and you’ll play much better regardless equipments. Trust me!
On a different note, I have tried all the H3 versions. the blue sponge takes booster quicker but they usually get bubbles if you overboost - also they have slightly different characteristics (a little faster and softer than orange). i prefer orange sponge since they give lower throw and most importantly cheaper and more durable. im still using the orange since we played in Hoa Lu and still going strong - i boosted with 2 layers of P500/Chop-ever Reviver. 
Get training from My Trang if you can - shes a very experienced coach. 
(hope your arm/ wrist getting better)


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Everybody boosts


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 3:47pm
I say if you are going to boost use commercial stuff. It may be inconsistent sometimes but only in terms of top sheet tackiness which wears off slightly within 2 weeks anyway. After that they play about the same.

I’ve tried prov h3 neo orange and quality seems better but not worth if you are going to boost. Same goes for other prov versions.

I prefer 39 hardness but now they don’t label the commercial stuff. They just put mid, mid-hard, and hard. I think 39 is mid-hard or something like that. You can try mid version if the one you got was too hard.

I only boosted with FTL, which makes the sponge softer abit. I heard the more expensive stuff doesn’t soften up the sponge as FTL does, so you can try that.

Oh, and right now I’m trying unboosted comm h3 neo on a 5 ply all wood (hadraw vk) and it’s too slow but boosted might be nice. I’m also going to try it on a 7 ply clipper clone (force pro black ed), a lot of people prefer boosted/unboosted h3s on 7ply blades like clipper.


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"Don't be an EJ, don't be an EJ, don't be a... oh look a sale at tt11!"


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 6:55pm
You are not gonna like what I have to say.

Ive been playing for more than a decade now. I have tried almost every type of Hurricane 3 that's out there. Yes, including the Nittakku H3 Turbo Blue Sponge, which is actually pretty good!

I tried the commercial versions first (orange sponge) and I was so disappointed i had written H3 off my list (yes, they felt like bricks, both original and Neo versions). Then a friend, who had been a pro, sold me a National Version of H3. The difference is like night and day.

Do you have to boost? Answer is NO. As it has been said before, after about 5 weeks of use, the sponge will soften up. Others claim you HAVE to boost it. No you don't. I don't boost mine. I USED to but since a couple of sheets developed bubbles, I decided I did not need to boost. And what do you know, I don't miss it. Right now I'm testing this Nittaku version of Hurricane 3. The sponge is a little harder than the DHS version. Im hoping it will soften up as I use it. Maybe a layer of oil might do the trick, but I can wait a little longer and see. So far it feels very similar to the DHS version. And it is not as expensive.

My main setup is not boosted. And it works quite well like that.

FdT



Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/09/2019 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Leftstudio Leftstudio wrote:

Eric! dont waste money on those crappy overpriced rubbers! get some training and you’ll play much better regardless equipments. Trust me!
On a different note, I have tried all the H3 versions. the blue sponge takes booster quicker but they usually get bubbles if you overboost - also they have slightly different characteristics (a little faster and softer than orange). i prefer orange sponge since they give lower throw and most importantly cheaper and more durable. im still using the orange since we played in Hoa Lu and still going strong - i boosted with 2 layers of P500/Chop-ever Reviver. 
Get training from My Trang if you can - shes a very experienced coach. 
(hope your arm/ wrist getting better)

My wrist is doing much better now. I started playing again about a few weeks ago. I also just started a new job, so I'll have funds for coaching again. I'm trying to work that out now. You were using commercial H3, is that right? I seem to remember when you borrowed the other guys H3 (I think it was national) that the balls I was receiving were much higher quality. 

Also, I got the Hurricane 3 provincial #20 orange sponge yesterday. It wasn't that expensive, on sale for 850k(vnd). Its obvious that topsheet is much higher quality than the commercial H3 Neo topsheet. The commercial H3 Neo had flaws on the surface of the topsheet right out of the package. Terrible quality actually. The new Provincial H3 #20 Orange sponge looks flawless and just higher quality in general. Out of the package, 39 degree Provincial feels a lot softer just by pushing on it, so I just boosted it with one medium layer of Reviver Phoenix. I will attach it today on my Clipper and give it a go. 



-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 09/10/2019 at 2:53am
The classic non neo H3 is better when you are heavy on boosting. It is also softer overall. 

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of ADIDAS, STIGA, TIBHAR, NEXY, JOOLA, ALSER & XVT

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/10/2019 at 9:50am
So, I slapped the Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on my Clipper. It has just one medium thickness layer of Reviver Pheonix Booster. I only played the first session this evening, so keep that in mind. These are just my initial feelings.  It's significantly faster than the boosted Commercial Neo that I had on there before. The throw seems much much longer. Warming up felt great and took less energy, but during match play I was hitting a lot of stuff high and long. Especially when looping backspin. It didn't feel bad, I just need to get used to it. That being said, my results weren't bad. I won about half of my matches. My other initial impressing is that it requires a more precise touch than the boosted H3 Neo, with that one i could just power loop and everything I hit hard with a proper stroke would land. However, the new one blocks better and you can get away with being out of position sometimes, but yeah it surely feels like this is going to require a bit more precision.  

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Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/10/2019 at 8:39pm
"Mystery of difference and variation boost curiosity hence increasing consuming" (wtf is that academic slang..) 

however a pro player only need consistency (means all the same) and simplicity

The real good H3 is when you couldn't tell difference between per sheet


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/11/2019 at 8:51pm
So, I played again yesterday with the H3 Provincial. I couldn't do anything. I just couldn't get my stroke in the groove and it felt like my racket had no feeling. It's going to take me some time to get used to this. Luckily, I'm starting with a new coach tomorrow who plays with H3. So, hopefully I'll be able to get my game back on track. Over the last 6 months, I just keep playing worse and worse. In fact, yesterday I lost two matches in a row to two different players who'd never beat me in the past. :( 

Oh, also I forgot to mention in the initial post. I do also have a Xiom Zetro Quad laying around with the other blades. Clipper Wood, Clipper CR, Timo Boll Spirit, Zetro Quad. Which one is most suitable for H3? I've been using the Clipper so far. I also tried it on that custom Hinoki/ALC blade, but it wasn't suitable. 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/13/2019 at 8:59pm
First lesson with the new coach yesterday. It's going to be a long road changing to H3. I have a lot of flaws in my technique that aren't so apparent when playing with Japanese rubber. My footwork and transitions are absolutely terrible. I can get away with that stuff when playing Tenergy, Tensors, or even short pimples, but its not going to work with H3. My current forehand has very little wrist motion and most of my power comes from my elbow, hips, and some weight transfer. The old technique doesn't make enough power with H3. The new coach is trying to teach me to use more wrist, more body rotation, and a bigger weight transfer. It all feels so foreign.  It's all very discouraging so far,  but in the long run it should be hugely beneficial to my game if I can actually figure out. About 6 months ago, I was playing around the 2000 level with Japanese technology rubber on both sides. I had some injuries, hadn't trained with a coach in awhile, and my game was already falling down, but now switching to H3, I feel like a 1500-1600 level player. So terrible and pretty discouraging so far, but I'm still going to try and stick with it. 

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Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 09/13/2019 at 10:34pm
Good luck and wish you to be patient walking that hard path. Basically this post proves well that there is lots of wisdom in advice, I read somewhere in the Internet (and decided to follow), suggesting that in early stages when we are just learning basics it is good idea to grab decent ALL, ALL+ flexible all wood blade paired with hard Chinese rubber (H3 is perfect example). Have that setup for year or so (I personally could not stick to it for the whole year). It meant to help in developing good basics, feel for brushing. H3 and similar rubbers - at the striking moment you have to be in a good position relative to the ball. Aha, easy to say.

When I changed from Chinese hard rubbers to Xiom Omega Asia 5 (which is hardest in the range) I felt like, "what the hell", this is soft as a towel :)) It was so easy to play. Instead of getting myself into position, I now could just over stretch and still could get my point! Is it good or bad? 

My coach showed me the point in relation to my body where I should make a contact with the ball and told me to stop thinking about ball position on its arc, regardless if it is raising ball or falling or ball at it's peak. The task for me was to move to the ball so that it is in that magical spot when racket hits it.

It was hardest for me to follow teaching during training sessions with H3 rubber. I had to put something softer (Xiom). Now, Xiom rubber worn out, I improved and can handle STN (it is softer than H3) but training still ongoing since May, every week, once per week and I am not there yet to use H3 as consistently as I could do with Xiom (and now with STN).

Foot work is so much important in TT ... but it is 2x more important if you have H3!



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Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 1:15am
"walking the hard path" is exactly right. I haven't won a match in 2 weeks. I can't get my stroke in a groove, sometimes not even during warm ups. Occasionally, I can get it together for a game or two. I absolutely suck at looping backspin during matches with H3. Rushing, poor footwork, etc... You name it, I suck at it.  I'm going to give it 1 month of training. If I don't start playing at least a little better, I may just quit playing for 3 or 4 months. Honestly, I'm getting super discouraged and tired of playing terribly. Any advice or words of encouragement would be great. 

-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 1:23am
Wait for my H3 and you will see the reason why


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 1:26am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Wait for my H3 and you will see the reason why

Your H3 is better than the boosted H3 Neo Commercial or the boosted H3 Provincial #20 Orange Sponge? 

Whats the difference? 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 2:19am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Wait for my H3 and you will see the reason why

Your H3 is better than the boosted H3 Neo Commercial or the boosted H3 Provincial #20 Orange Sponge? 

Whats the difference? 

You couldn't compare an orange to an apple as different H3s are not come from the same factory.



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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 8:25am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Wait for my H3 and you will see the reason why

Your H3 is better than the boosted H3 Neo Commercial or the boosted H3 Provincial #20 Orange Sponge? 

Whats the difference? 

You couldn't compare an orange to an apple as different H3s are not come from the same factory.



Well, how about elaborating on your H3 sourcing and tuning knowledge.


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 10:27am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

"walking the hard path" is exactly right. I haven't won a match in 2 weeks. I can't get my stroke in a groove, sometimes not even during warm ups. Occasionally, I can get it together for a game or two. I absolutely suck at looping backspin during matches with H3. Rushing, poor footwork, etc... You name it, I suck at it.  I'm going to give it 1 month of training. If I don't start playing at least a little better, I may just quit playing for 3 or 4 months. Honestly, I'm getting super discouraged and tired of playing terribly. Any advice or words of encouragement would be great. 
just my 2 cents.  It might take a lot longer than 1 month to adapt to h3 but if you want to play that style you are going to have patience and hardwork.  Something that helps me getting into the groove for FH when I am not immediately feeling it is to use the BH rubber (37 degrees) for a couple of minutes before changing back.  Looping against backspin should be a breeze once you are onto the H3.  Best wishes to you!


Posted By: Leftstudio
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 2:42pm
converting to H3 is a tough decision - i switched and it took nearly 6 months (i play almost 2-3 hours everyday) to fully understand the characteristics of that shitty rubber. it is very demanding to use (footwork, power generation, use of arm and hip and leg, boosting). i wonder how long can you commit to it - there is a reason not many people can play with H3 with success. looping underspin is really easy if you "hit and brush" the ball at its peak - try multiball as much as you can. the strength of the rubber is hit through the spin because of its tacky topsheet (basically the stroke is 70% hit and 30% spin or loop-drive like some people call it).

keep it up if you think it is the right path for you - otherwise you can always switch to different rubbers - it is a hobby after all isnt it? let's face it - 99.99% people here are not going to the olympics so take it easy and enjoy the game.  


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Everybody boosts


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Leftstudio Leftstudio wrote:

converting to H3 is a tough decision - i switched and it took nearly 6 months (i play almost 2-3 hours everyday) to fully understand the characteristics of that shitty rubber. it is very demanding to use (footwork, power generation, use of arm and hip and leg, boosting). i wonder how long can you commit to it - there is a reason not many people can play with H3 with success. looping underspin is really easy if you "hit and brush" the ball at its peak - try multiball as much as you can. the strength of the rubber is hit through the spin because of its tacky topsheet (basically the stroke is 70% hit and 30% spin or loop-drive like some people call it).

keep it up if you think it is the right path for you - otherwise you can always switch to different rubbers - it is a hobby after all isnt it? let's face it - 99.99% people here are not going to the olympics so take it easy and enjoy the game.  

So, are you still playing with H3? 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 10:53pm
[/QUOTE]just my 2 cents.  It might take a lot longer than 1 month to adapt to h3 but if you want to play that style you are going to have patience and hardwork.  Something that helps me getting into the groove for FH when I am not immediately feeling it is to use the BH rubber (37 degrees) for a couple of minutes before changing back.  Looping against backspin should be a breeze once you are onto the H3.  Best wishes to you![/QUOTE]

I obviously don't expect to master H3 in one month, but I'm hoping to at least see some improvement.  I'm having a hard time even warming up. Partially because I can't find the feeling and get my stroke in a grove. And, partially because the balls have a flatter trajectory and dip lower soo the opponents are having a harder time returning my balls. So, even when I return quality balls during warm up, my warm up partners aren't returning them very well. 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/17/2019 at 11:59pm
"And, partially because the balls have a flatter trajectory and dip lower soo the opponents are having a harder time returning my balls. "

Hehe, I should ask my partners if the H3 bothers them.


Posted By: Leftstudio
Date Posted: 09/18/2019 at 1:57am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by Leftstudio Leftstudio wrote:

converting to H3 is a tough decision - i switched and it took nearly 6 months (i play almost 2-3 hours everyday) to fully understand the characteristics of that shitty rubber. it is very demanding to use (footwork, power generation, use of arm and hip and leg, boosting). i wonder how long can you commit to it - there is a reason not many people can play with H3 with success. looping underspin is really easy if you "hit and brush" the ball at its peak - try multiball as much as you can. the strength of the rubber is hit through the spin because of its tacky topsheet (basically the stroke is 70% hit and 30% spin or loop-drive like some people call it).

keep it up if you think it is the right path for you - otherwise you can always switch to different rubbers - it is a hobby after all isnt it? let's face it - 99.99% people here are not going to the olympics so take it easy and enjoy the game.  

So, are you still playing with H3? 

Yes. Once you understand how the rubber works best then it's hard to switch back to other rubbers. It has many gears: slow, fast, spinny, no spin, dead spin. Not to mention cheap as hell, too. I got it from my friend in Shanghai - it was around $5/sheet and they last forever. The best way to use it for me is to play the spin game with placement and also I can put the ball away if the ball is long enough. 
Playing H3 requires a specific training because of its unique characteristics. It's not easy, but once you get the hang of it then table tennis, all of a sudden, becomes so much fun to play!
Also, speaking of table tennis, I wouldn't recommend switching equipment and playing style too often. You just gotta be consistent with what works for you. What ever works for you. What rubber makes the shot. What technique makes it easy for you, harder for your opponent. What serve makes it hard to return. What tactic wins the point. 
 


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Everybody boosts


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/18/2019 at 6:55am
Originally posted by Leftstudio Leftstudio wrote:

So, are you still playing with H3? 

Yes. Once you understand how the rubber works best then it's hard to switch back to other rubbers. It has many gears: slow, fast, spinny, no spin, dead spin. Not to mention cheap as hell, too. I got it from my friend in Shanghai - it was around $5/sheet and they last forever. The best way to use it for me is to play the spin game with placement and also I can put the ball away if the ball is long enough. 
Playing H3 requires a specific training because of its unique characteristics. It's not easy, but once you get the hang of it then table tennis, all of a sudden, becomes so much fun to play!
Also, speaking of table tennis, I wouldn't recommend switching equipment and playing style too often. You just gotta be consistent with what works for you. What ever works for you. What rubber makes the shot. What technique makes it easy for you, harder for your opponent. What serve makes it hard to return. What tactic wins the point. 
 
[/QUOTE]

Yes I believe so.
And that cheap one is much more better than the "blue sponge national version" which is selling on very high demand on the market!
Yeap, seller and consumer don't like it.


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 09/19/2019 at 8:50am
Quote I obviously don't expect to master H3 in one month, but I'm hoping to at least see some improvement.

2 months is reasonable milestone. 
H38 degrees (DHS scale) is easier to master  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1484382842.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1484382842.html
Red might be more sticky than black. This H38 is not the same as H39. 

H39 is more difficult to play but it produces astonishing shots when angle is right. 

Boosted will play differently. In my case 2 layers of falco on H39 sponge made it softer, faster. 
But also made dwell time shorter, so it became different rubber all together. 

Would I boost H3 again? No, no, no. 

Why?
It is not going to get more sticky and actually it does not need to. H3 out of package and during next 100 hours of play is insanely tacky = spinny.

Will you be able to produce more spin with boosted? Please note, that I am not saying "is it possible to produce more spin with boosted comparing to normal?" I am emphasising, "will you be able to produce more spin, given that dwell time is going to be shorter?"

If H3 is not fast enough for me, what would I do instead of boosting? I will get H3 NEO, which is factory boosted. What's the difference comparing to self boosted? 1) Boosting effect is consistent across the whole sheet when done properly at the factory. 2) It does not curl.

Consider this simple list of commercial H3 variations (below $20 USD):

1) H39 degrees 
2) H39 degrees boosted
3) Neo H39 degrees factory boosted
4) H38 degrees

Which one is better to learn TT skills with? Yes, answer is #4 - H38 degrees. It is slowest, softest. So dwell time is longest on brushes.

All variants will happily and annoyingly expose all imperfections in your skills. 

But why to bother if it's so painful? In my case, I wanted to develop powerful strokes, so I knew that I will need to engage muscles and was ready to sweat a lot :)) Lesson learned - there is a limit how much power I can put if I use my arm/chest muscles. Anything above that limit results in unpredictable shot, sometimes Ok, bust most often - a miss. 

Why? Arm muscles are not relaxed any more. Not relaxed muscles = no consistency and no power.

Okay, how does that supposed to work then? With the help of my coach I found out that H3 is not built for use with arm/chest muscles. Extensive use of wrist and elbow is good trick to add speed to the stroke, but it's optional. (I am taking about FH)

The basis for the stroke is abdominal muscle group combined with right side quads (for right handed player). Engaging these muscles into stroke as main source of force will let arm to stay relaxed and will lead to faster racket speed. That what H3 wants from you. Fast stroke preferably with acceleration.

Aha, easy to say. To execute such a shot during game one have to anticipate ball trajectory and know what steps to take to put legs in right place. Bloody difficult and no fun to learn. Not at all.

Someone in this thread warned that if one manages to tame H3 then it will be no going back. I agree, other rubbers, especially European tensors will feel quite funny after that :)


-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: Hozuki
Date Posted: 09/19/2019 at 9:12am
He is correct. Use softer Hurricane.
Before the ABS balls, tensors used to be no harder than 47,5 degree. Now european pros use 50-53 degree rubbers, and heavily boosted.

If you buy 39 deg hurricane (the softest neo), it is already 50-52 degree with harder topsheet than most euro rubbers.
And even if you boost your 40 deg one, it will not become softer than that.
So are you pro?
Well, so don't expect wonders. Get a soft 38 hurricane. Try to fully engange the sponge.
Once you can do that consistently on your shots, you can consider getting 39 degrees.


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/24/2019 at 7:56pm
A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 10:25am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.
Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 1:28pm
[/QUOTE]Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what that difference is, but from what I understand DHS has multiple factories and all of the Hurricane rubbers even of the same type are not created equal.

When you talk about the blue sponge bubbling, is that all of them or is it specifically the Neo blue sponge?  


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

[/QUOTE]
Interesting - is there anything special about Chop's H3 (from what he told you).  BS bubbles easily.  I thought initially it was caused by TempoLong but I just bubbled a sheet boosted with KaiLin.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what that difference is, but from what I understand DHS has multiple factories and all of the Hurricane rubbers even of the same type are not created equal.

When you talk about the blue sponge bubbling, is that all of them or is it specifically the Neo blue sponge?  
[/QUOTE]The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.


Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet. You get the highest, immediate performance, but destroy sheets often this way.

I'm pretty sure that you can prevent this bubbling by applying a thicker glue layer and boost that. It will take longer to boost (a week or two of prep) and it's possible to overboost because the glue layer delays the boost effect. Conversely, the boosting will last longer, because the glue layer will release the booster into the sponge slower than if directly applied to sponge.

Until you get a real feel for the process I describe, you will likely screw up some glue jobs by applying them to the blade before they stretch. You may overboost some sheets and not realize it because they are so slow to stretch.


-------------
http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

The ones that bubbled were not Neos, it might make a difference since some said the Neo top sheet is a bit tougher.  I have a sheet of Neo that hasn't bubbled yet but I did not boost it.   Not helpful - I guess you could try your luck and if your first sheet bubbles then you don't have to get a second one.

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet. You get the highest, immediate performance, but destroy sheets often this way.

I'm pretty sure that you can prevent this bubbling by applying a thicker glue layer and boost that. It will take longer to boost (a week or two of prep) and it's possible to overboost because the glue layer delays the boost effect. Conversely, the boosting will last longer, because the glue layer will release the booster into the sponge slower than if directly applied to sponge.

Until you get a real feel for the process I describe, you will likely screw up some glue jobs by applying them to the blade before they stretch. You may overboost some sheets and not realize it because they are so slow to stretch.
Thanks I will wait wait longer for it to flatten and make sure the base glue layer is adequate on my next sheet and hopefully won't be reporting another bubbling.  Or maybe my FH is just too powerful (just kidding).


Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet.
The booster does NOT outgas since it is not a VOC (volatile organic compound). That's the hole point of the booster. However it diffuses through the sponge.
By the way, I never had this problem with the Prov Neo BS is use but I only use one moderate layer of booster.


-------------
Stiga B2000 '76; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 10/01/2019 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Many of the "blue sponge provincials" will bubble if you apply booster directly to the blue sponge as the booster outgassing into the topsheet seems to weaken the bonds between sponge and topsheet.
The booster does NOT outgas since it is not a VOC (volatile organic compound). That's the hole point of the booster. However it diffuses through the sponge.
By the way, I never had this problem with the Prov Neo BS is use but I only use one moderate layer of booster.


ahh -  sorry i misunderstood. I assumed that the boosting effect passing through the glue into the sponge was chemical and not physical.

is it possible that there are different interactions between falco and some of the glues?


-------------
http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/03/2019 at 9:41am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

A quick update. I'm starting to get the hang of H3 slightly, but I need to put in a lot more work. At least I'm no longer getting crushed by everyone I play. For now, I've settled on the Commercial H3 Neo on a custom Hinoki/T5000 blade. I've been playing that setup for about 2 weeks. I tried both the Commercial H3 Neo and H3 provincial 39 degrees orange sponge on a few different blades. The Neo is simply easier for me to use at this time. Maybe the other one needs more booster or break-in time, but it just didn't feel great on any of the blades I tried. I also tried both of the rubbers on Stiga Clipper Wood as most people suggested, but it just didn't feel good. My coach didn't like them on the Clipper either. It could just be that Clipper isn't a good one since it was purchased in the Vietnam market. 

Chop4ever is sending me some H3 sheets to try out, if I don't like those I may give the 38 degrees H3 a try (as suggest above) at some point. Also, my coach suggested that H3 Neo Provincial Blue Sponge is higher quality, more dynamic, and has a better feel than the commercial im currently using. Honestly, for now I'm pretty alright with the boosted H3 Neo Commercial.
Ericd, any more progress / update?


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 10/03/2019 at 9:53am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1


-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/03/2019 at 5:09pm
tempted to get a commercial neo (never tried that version) and try it unboosted then boosted - anyone think it is a waste of time ? 


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 10/03/2019 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1

I'm currently still playing the boosted commercial H3 Neo. I also received the rubbers from Chop4ever. 
He sent me 6 rubbers in total. Thanks again for that! Two sheets of H3 Neo, Two sheets of H3, and two secondhand sheets of H2. Of the Neo sheets, one is labeled soft and one is labeled hard, but they both have the labels crossed out and 41 degrees is hand written over the label. The H3 sheets also have the labels crossed out and are hand written as 40.5. 

I'm slightly hesitant to try anything different just yet since I'm finally starting to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel using the boosted H3 Neo. I'm actually currently playing somewhat okay. When I tried playing Provincial H3 (non Neo) #20 orange sponge, I felt like there was going to be too much of a learning curve going from the Neo. It didn't necessarily feel better or worse than the Neo, I just had to adjust and I didn't feel like it would be worth it at that time. Going forward, I'm not sure if I should just wait until my current sheet wears out or give one of the new rubbers a go. I guess the H3 Neo would be the logical place to start. Any suggestions Chop4ever or anyone else? 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 10/03/2019 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Ericd, any more progress / update?

+1

I'm currently still playing the boosted commercial H3 Neo. I also received the rubbers from Chop4ever. 
He sent me 6 rubbers in total. Thanks again for that! Two sheets of H3 Neo, Two sheets of H3, and two secondhand sheets of H2. Of the Neo sheets, one is labeled soft and one is labeled hard, but they both have the labels crossed out and 41 degrees is hand written over the label. The H3 sheets also have the labels crossed out and are hand written as 40.5. 

I'm slightly hesitant to try anything different just yet since I'm finally starting to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel using the boosted H3 Neo. I'm actually currently playing somewhat okay. When I tried playing Provincial H3 (non Neo) #20 orange sponge, I felt like there was going to be too much of a learning curve going from the Neo. It didn't necessarily feel better or worse than the Neo, I just had to adjust and I didn't feel like it would be worth it at that time. Going forward, I'm not sure if I should just wait until my current sheet wears out or give one of the new rubbers a go. I guess the H3 Neo would be the logical place to start. Any suggestions Chop4ever or anyone else? 

Oh, I thought they are old H3 and H2, not 2 H2...
anw, try all the "secondhand" rubber first without any booster and see if you have found the light?
The H2 I gave you is the best one. As no-one use H2 hence I could choose for me all the best quality. two 2nd rubbers has been boosted long time ago (about 3 months) but they are still fast enough.

Then unpack the neo H3, play without any booster to see if it is weak as all rubbers you have used before?
The original H3 needs 2 layers of Reviver (pls do not ever apply Falco on my rubber), let it set down for 3 days and glue it to blade when it is still dome. However, if you have time and want to experiment more, then you should play them without booster first. After 10 hours hitting, the H3 will be elastic enough as tuned.

I use to play without booster.






-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 10/04/2019 at 1:16am
I double checked. You are correct. One is secondhand H2 and one is secondhand H3. My mistake. 

The commercial H3 Neo I'm using now took some time to get used to it, and to get it to where I liked the feeling. I first tried two thin layers of Reviver, but didn't like it on the first blade. Forgot about it for 3 or 4 weeks and continued playing with Tenergy. Decided to try again, then put two more thin layers of Reviver on it, tried it on a Clipper Wood. It was okay on that one. Better, but not amazing. Played that way for about 3 weeks. Then took it off, put on more layer of Reviver and put it on a Hinoki/T5000 custom blade. I like this set up. Its feels and plays pretty good now. So, I'll stick with this blade moving forward to try the new rubbers. Are those new NEO rubbers labeled at 41 going to feel really hard without any tuning? 


-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 10/04/2019 at 2:31am
Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.

-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/04/2019 at 10:34am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 10/04/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.


-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/04/2019 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 10/05/2019 at 9:59am
Give it an ALC blade to try.
Hardness is relative. That scale is consistent but couldn't compare to DHS scale.


-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 10/06/2019 at 9:46am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.

That makes sense. 

I will feel sorry for Ericd if he swaps boosted neo to plain h3 right now.


-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/06/2019 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Dont change before current worns out. Just dont waste efforts you already put in.
that will take months - could try it  on the BH side just to compare (using it for FH) - of course Ericd will have to eventually put the BH rubber back.

I am sure he is smart enough to leave this setup as is and for trying out new stuff - glue it on another blade.
The point is he didn't like his neo on the other blades, so gluing the other rubbers onto the other blades won't give a good comparison.

That makes sense. 

I will feel sorry for Ericd if he swaps boosted neo to plain h3 right now.
this might well be - but the force of the EJ might have something to say


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 10/11/2019 at 2:22am
So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.

-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/11/2019 at 9:58am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.
so you inadvertently discovered a good matching blade - that is something.  I am surprised at your findings from what I read about the H2.  Thanks for the info.  I am sure Chop will add to the discussion.


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 10/12/2019 at 5:54am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

So, I briefly tested the secondhand sheet of H2 from Chop4ever. I did give it a small retune with Reviver Phoenix before putting it on. I tried it on Xiom Zetro Quad with H3 Provincial #20 orange sponge on the other side (39 Degrees). My initial impression is that in comparison, H2 was much slower and maybe a little bit spinnier than the rubber on the other side. I did notice the serves with H2 were quite loaded with spin. In play, the H2 felt a lot less lively that any of the H3 variants I've been playing recently. I will test it a bit more. I was also surprised that the H3 Provincial felt really lively, crisp and direct on Zetro Quad, much better than it felt on the other blades I've tried it on.
so you inadvertently discovered a good matching blade - that is something.  I am surprised at your findings from what I read about the H2.  Thanks for the info.  I am sure Chop will add to the discussion.

It is the taste difference. For me, H2 and H3 are the same level of use.


-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 11/16/2019 at 7:46am
I opened up one of the H3 Neo rubbers that you (Chop4ever) sent me. I can't put my finger on it, but it is a little bit different than the H3 Neo commercial I purchased in Vietnam. I tried it unboosted and the one you gave me was a bit faster than the one I purchased from the shop here. I played it that way for a couple of weeks, tried it on a couple different blades. After 2 weeks, I put one medium thickness application of Reviver Phoenix on it and now its really good. It took a look less time to break in and a lot less booster to get it playing good than the commercial sheet I purchased here in Vietnam. Why is it so much different and whats the secret? 

-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 6:58am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

I opened up one of the H3 Neo rubbers that you (Chop4ever) sent me. I can't put my finger on it, but it is a little bit different than the H3 Neo commercial I purchased in Vietnam. I tried it unboosted and the one you gave me was a bit faster than the one I purchased from the shop here. I played it that way for a couple of weeks, tried it on a couple different blades. After 2 weeks, I put one medium thickness application of Reviver Phoenix on it and now its really good. It took a look less time to break in and a lot less booster to get it playing good than the commercial sheet I purchased here in Vietnam. Why is it so much different and whats the secret? 

There is no secret. Everything is clear as under the Sun but no-one believe on it.


-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 7:19am
It is not so clear. I was actually waiting for the outcome of this experiment which looks like to be successful and proved something. But I am still in the dark what products were posted. My guess it was either something boosted by chop4ever or not yet boosted but with advice to boost using Reviver Phoenix. Is that right?




-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 3:34pm
The H3 Neo I received from him was sealed in original packaging. Just a commercial sheet as far as I could tell. 

-------------
Current Setup: Trying to learn H3
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level:
Starting to get the hang of H3


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

The H3 Neo I received from him was sealed in original packaging. Just a commercial sheet as far as I could tell. 

As long as you use that one, you will find out its consistency and durability are so different from the others, even "NT or Prov" versions.
However, the original version (non-neo) is the best, as I only use the original one (and suggest to my students to use)

The secret is, non of actual pro Chinese players use the rubbers you could buy from the market, with the label "pro" and "NT".

The learning players (but their level is higher than everyone here) use "normal" H3
The provincial team players (their ranking is around 100 of the world ranking) use "normal" H3
The NT B team players use "normal" H3 sometimes.

So why the * a so low player on Earth is seeking for NT H3???

The main difference from the H3 using by Chinese players is, it has been chosen carefully by the coach among real H3 sheets.

There is nothing about booster.
But wrong booster will cause worse result.







-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 6:09am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

The main difference from the H3 using by Chinese players is, it has been chosen carefully by the coach among real H3 sheets.

I'd like to see that process :) Coach takes bunch of new rubbers, unpacks, peels off film, examines them somehow, pics the best one and returns rest of the bunch back without protective films and in opened package. Hm.. there must be some other way how they do it ..


-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 7:06am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:


I'd like to see that process :) Coach takes bunch of new rubbers, unpacks, peels off film, examines them somehow, pics the best one and returns rest of the bunch back without protective films and in opened package. Hm.. there must be some other way how they do it ..

Non of them use H3 neo.
For the original H3, coach could choose freely before the packaging and they are much much cheaper than the market price.


-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 7:45am
How often they are choosing rubbers before packaging?

-------------
Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: ttforlife
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 9:25am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

The H3 Neo I received from him was sealed in original packaging. Just a commercial sheet as far as I could tell. 

As long as you use that one, you will find out its consistency and durability are so different from the others, even "NT or Prov" versions.
However, the original version (non-neo) is the best, as I only use the original one (and suggest to my students to use)

The secret is, non of actual pro Chinese players use the rubbers you could buy from the market, with the label "pro" and "NT".

The learning players (but their level is higher than everyone here) use "normal" H3
The provincial team players (their ranking is around 100 of the world ranking) use "normal" H3
The NT B team players use "normal" H3 sometimes.

So why the * a so low player on Earth is seeking for NT H3???

The main difference from the H3 using by Chinese players is, it has been chosen carefully by the coach among real H3 sheets.

There is nothing about booster.
But wrong booster will cause worse result.


Many of the ex provincial players that coach and play in the US use provincial NEO blue sponge. Jishan Liang ~2600 uses National NEO blue sponge whenever he plays tournaments, although supposedly he gets his rubbers from contacts in the Chinese National Team..


Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 2:43pm
if u cant hit unboosted h3 its an issue with contact and timing


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by ttforlife ttforlife wrote:

Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

The H3 Neo I received from him was sealed in original packaging. Just a commercial sheet as far as I could tell. 

As long as you use that one, you will find out its consistency and durability are so different from the others, even "NT or Prov" versions.
However, the original version (non-neo) is the best, as I only use the original one (and suggest to my students to use)

The secret is, non of actual pro Chinese players use the rubbers you could buy from the market, with the label "pro" and "NT".

The learning players (but their level is higher than everyone here) use "normal" H3
The provincial team players (their ranking is around 100 of the world ranking) use "normal" H3
The NT B team players use "normal" H3 sometimes.

So why the * a so low player on Earth is seeking for NT H3???

The main difference from the H3 using by Chinese players is, it has been chosen carefully by the coach among real H3 sheets.

There is nothing about booster.
But wrong booster will cause worse result.


Many of the ex provincial players that coach and play in the US use provincial NEO blue sponge. Jishan Liang ~2600 uses National NEO blue sponge whenever he plays tournaments, although supposedly he gets his rubbers from contacts in the Chinese National Team..
2600 is higher than average in USA but is nothing from the young prov kids in a Chinese province. That's his personal choice as he is rich and his dreaming to be nat A team player.


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by bars bars wrote:

if u cant hit unboosted h3 its an issue with contact and timing
And the right blade.
Booster is vitally important, yet not everything.
Right booster brings speed and springiness to H3. Bad booster make it mushier and more fragile.


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/21/2019 at 3:19am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by bars bars wrote:

if u cant hit unboosted h3 its an issue with contact and timing
And the right blade.
Booster is vitally important, yet not everything.
Right booster brings speed and springiness to H3. Bad booster make it mushier and more fragile.

Can you explain the importance of proper gluing? Some people use multi-layer of glue to get more springiness out of setup. Booster also adds to the speed. What is the recommended way to glue boosted H3? Would you use both - boosting and thick glue or only one of these?


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Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 11:35am
IN MY OPINION THE ONLY PLAYERS WHO SHOULD USE HURRICANE ARE THOSE WHO STARTED WITH IT AS A KID, OR PLAYED MOST OF THEIR LIFE. MOST ASIAN PLAYERS WOULD FALL HERE. IF YOU SIMPLY PLAYED MOST OF YOUR LIFE OR SINCE YOU WERE A KID WITH EURO/JAP TYPE RUBBERS YOU SHOULD JUST STICK TO THEM. THERE IS A REASON WHY NONE OF THE TOP EUROPEAN PLAYERS USE HURRICANE, AS THEY KNOW THEY SIMPLY CANT PLAY WELL WITH IT.. MANY TRIED AND FAILED. SO WHY WASTE TIME, JUST STICK WITH NORMALL RUBBERS YOU LIKE, DONT TRY TO FORCE CHINESE RUBBER AND RE-LEARN EVERYTHING...
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING PAST 20 YEARS AND I DID TRY FEW TIMES MANY VARIATIONS OF HURRICANE, I WAS NEVER AS SUCCESFULL AS WITH WHAT I AM USED TO (TENERGY MXP ETC).
TO PLAY WITH HURRICANE YOU SIMPLY NEED TO BE BORN WITH IT, AND TRAIN WITH IT SINCE A KID. THAT BEING SAID NEW YOUNG TT PLAYERS THAT GET INTO TT COULD EASILLY START WITH H3 COMMERCIAL AND BE GREAT WITH IT.


Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 2:26pm
I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying something new, unless his livelihood or ego was in the way. Changes to one's setup can often reveal limitations/flaws in one's strokes and/or errors in one's conceptual understanding of stroke mechanics.

However, aside from an unusually bad pairing of blade and rubber, bad glue job, or an out of spec sample of the rubber, the very first recourse to the rubber "not playing well" shouldn't be to find out what "better" glue or booster to use and how better to use them. Instead, examine yourself first.

Try new things and if they don't work out, make the effort to understand why. Equipment availability, quality, cost, and durability aside, it often comes down to:

1. I can't make it work because I just don't have the coordination.
2. I can make it work but it requires too much physical effort/fitness.
3. I can make it work but I don't want to spend the time to modify my strokes at his point.
4. I can't make it work because I don't understand how.


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 3:32pm
Well said. I have live example. My friend keep changing his setup so often trying to find that perfectly fit one (wood, then carbon, tacky Chinese, esn, again tacky Chinese, polishing and modifying handle, complaining about balls and etc.) while stokes are not perfect and footwork is none.

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Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:


Can you explain the importance of proper gluing? Some people use multi-layer of glue to get more springiness out of setup. Booster also adds to the speed. What is the recommended way to glue boosted H3? Would you use both - boosting and thick glue or only one of these?

This is the matter of taste. And it must accompany with the blade and style.
For example, someone uses Viscaria, play close to the table, hit hard. He should use thick layer of glue + booster. Vice versa, a thin 5 flies blade doesn't need that thickness.




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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

IN MY OPINION THE ONLY PLAYERS WHO SHOULD USE HURRICANE ARE THOSE WHO STARTED WITH IT AS A KID, OR PLAYED MOST OF THEIR LIFE. MOST ASIAN PLAYERS WOULD FALL HERE. IF YOU SIMPLY PLAYED MOST OF YOUR LIFE OR SINCE YOU WERE A KID WITH EURO/JAP TYPE RUBBERS YOU SHOULD JUST STICK TO THEM. THERE IS A REASON WHY NONE OF THE TOP EUROPEAN PLAYERS USE HURRICANE, AS THEY KNOW THEY SIMPLY CANT PLAY WELL WITH IT.. MANY TRIED AND FAILED. SO WHY WASTE TIME, JUST STICK WITH NORMALL RUBBERS YOU LIKE, DONT TRY TO FORCE CHINESE RUBBER AND RE-LEARN EVERYTHING...
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING PAST 20 YEARS AND I DID TRY FEW TIMES MANY VARIATIONS OF HURRICANE, I WAS NEVER AS SUCCESFULL AS WITH WHAT I AM USED TO (TENERGY MXP ETC).
TO PLAY WITH HURRICANE YOU SIMPLY NEED TO BE BORN WITH IT, AND TRAIN WITH IT SINCE A KID. THAT BEING SAID NEW YOUNG TT PLAYERS THAT GET INTO TT COULD EASILLY START WITH H3 COMMERCIAL AND BE GREAT WITH IT.

Agreed
I use H3 for the whole life. I've also found difficult to use other rubbers.
And I can't use crap H3s either.


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 8:13pm
I started with tenergy (like an idiot) on a slow 5 ply all wood, tried hurricane many times before and now I think it suits me best in fh. My strokes are long due to my height and soft euro rubber just doesn’t work for me on fh. For bh any med euro/jap rubber with good control such as rozena or aurus select works for me well. 

To each their own.

Gotta say, a properly boosted h3 neo is the bees knees on any off all-wood blade.


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"Don't be an EJ, don't be an EJ, don't be a... oh look a sale at tt11!"


Posted By: hunkeelin
Date Posted: 11/25/2019 at 9:50pm
h3 is trash. Buy a sheet of joola or stay safe and play t05. it will save you money.


Reasons: 
- The same sheet of h3 plays differently the first day as compare to 3 weeks later.
- The same sheet of h3 boosted play different after weeks. 
- Bubbles 
- different weight with different h3. It's call h3 but it's actually a whole line of rubbers. 

At the end of the day i stick with tenergy/euro rubbers. Every six month i change rubber and i put on the weight and it's only +/- 1g exact. I feel like i never change rubber and keep improving my skill than wasting my time boosting, regluing, thinking about whether the boosting effect still lingers cause i miss the shot. 

I've been through this road, trust me. My biggest skill jump is when i ditch that cancer of a rubber. 




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USATT: Current 2139 as of 11/2019


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 7:14am
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

h3 is trash. Buy a sheet of joola or stay safe and play t05. it will save you money.


Reasons: 
- The same sheet of h3 plays differently the first day as compare to 3 weeks later.
- The same sheet of h3 boosted play different after weeks. 
- Bubbles 
- different weight with different h3. It's call h3 but it's actually a whole line of rubbers. 

At the end of the day i stick with tenergy/euro rubbers. Every six month i change rubber and i put on the weight and it's only +/- 1g exact. I feel like i never change rubber and keep improving my skill than wasting my time boosting, regluing, thinking about whether the boosting effect still lingers cause i miss the shot. 

I've been through this road, trust me. My biggest skill jump is when i ditch that cancer of a rubber.


Yes, H3 is trash. And all the points you have listed are correct.
Please note: H3 from the system that has prov and NT, blue sponge and some sort of specialty.
Falco is not a booster and it doesn't work with H3.

However I have different observations
-Without boosting, the consistency is remained unchanged for its life span.
-With good booster, peak performance lasts 1 month and not any difference
-Never has bubble before the topsheet worn out clearly seen the pips
-I have to choose to make sure 10 sheets as one
-There is no need to buy expensive one, $30 per sheet and last 2-3 months (>150hours)

Sorry but it seems you have bad exp with the "other" H3s, not the one I know
And Falco is trash.






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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: penholderxxx
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 7:34am
' h3 is trash. Buy a sheet of joola or stay safe and play t05. it will save you money.


Reasons: 
- The same sheet of h3 plays differently the first day as compare to 3 weeks later.
- The same sheet of h3 boosted play different after weeks. 
- Bubbles 
- different weight with different h3. It's call h3 but it's actually a whole line of rubbers. 

At the end of the day i stick with tenergy/euro rubbers. Every six month i change rubber and i put on the weight and it's only +/- 1g exact. I feel like i never change rubber and keep improving my skill than wasting my time boosting, regluing, thinking about whether the boosting effect still lingers cause i miss the shot. 

I've been through this road, trust me. My biggest skill jump is when i ditch that cancer of a rubber. ' - hunkeelin


I would say this is a very unfair, harsh and unreasonable comment.
In the first place, one is about US$70 per piece ( Tenergy 05 ) and the other less than US$12 per piece ( DHS hurricane 3 neo commercial ).
There are perhaps tens of thousand around the world who use DHS Hurricane 3 and its variant; maybe even over a hundred thousand.
Apart from the monetary factor involved where not that many are as well dispensed as you; being able to change your higher priced rubbers every six months; there are those who play with their H3 for more than a year, it may be probably true that not all if any are up to your level of skills which require such exacting demands on the rubbers; that many are social or club players who enjoy their games, as much as you do.
Hope you will retract your unnecessarily nasty comments.




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Iloveplayingtabletennis


Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 7:47am
One guy in my club changes his H3 every 6 month and also keeps improving. Next time after I lose to him (and this is gonna happen tomorrow ... and pretty much 90% of club players are losing to him) I will enlighten him that he is playing with trash rubber on FH. 
It is so strange to read advice to exchange h3 to t05. And it's not about products, these rubbers are from such a different categories requiring such a different technique, so advice like this surprises me a lot (if not to say more) :)




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Stiga Celero, FH: Hurricane 3 Pro H38, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60, H37
Viscaria, FH: Hurricane 3 Commercial H39, BH: Hurricane Neo 3 Commercial H39


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 9:42am
Obviously a good player can use anything to beat you (of, me). I will say, unless the player is good or significantly better than me I am always glad to play against H3 in a tournament. I know that for mid to lower level players such as myself that I will not receive as difficult a ball from such a player as the same player using butterfly or other modern euro/jap rubbers. 


Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 12:29pm
I learned today that the lowly H3 is a trashy rubber used by the Chinese TT development machine to train tens of thousands of players in sports schools. 


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 12:59pm
"- different weight with different h3. It's call h3 but it's actually a whole line of rubbers. "

Of all the gibberish that came out of your rant, this is the only line that is true.
It's more of a line of rubbers. Starting from the commercial version to the National Blue Sponge, and even the Nittakku Pro series.

I went through a mountain of rubbers in my search for a good fh rubber. I had a pile of about 40 rubbers that I had to discard for various reasons. Some were ok, others were unusable. Some were very good at one aspect but terrible at other aspects of the game. And of course theres the issue of rubber to blade pairing. H3 Nat Blue Sponge is the rubber that worked best for me. The Nittakku H3 Pro is also very good, and my second choice. And you don't HAVE to boost. That's just a myth.

I guess the CNT has not gotten the memo that H3 is crap. Poor guys!! LOL



FdT



Posted By: hunkeelin
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 3:27pm
CNT are different than us. H3 is trash for learning adults like me(which consist of most of the forum members here). If you are a kid and you have a Chinese coach as guidance then sure use h3. They will teach you how to glue, boost, and buy you the right h3 from the right vendor. 

However, if it's a solo endeavor? h3 is a waste of time and it's garbage. You are already an adult, you got jobs, kids, wife/gf/fiance. Now you  are going to fume your house with glue and rubber laying around, constantly gluing, regluing, researching finding the right boosting formula just for you, etc.... It's a time wasting pitch that you will never get it right on your own. 

If you plan to use unboost h3 then ok fine. But never ever try to boost it. Once you bosot it and taste the increase in control, speed and spin you will always try to chase that feel and you will forget to improve your own techique, isntead you will try to boost, keep boosting it until you find that lost touch. It's like cocaine/meth. 

One week everything goes your way, your loop are powerful landing on the table with speed. Next week your shot just went suddenly went down the net when you think you are doing everything right. The question is, were you just having a bad day/week? or the boosting effect is gone? You never know. 

Do not use h3, just get a euro rubber and stick with it and improve your own technique. 



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USATT: Current 2139 as of 11/2019


Posted By: hunkeelin
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 3:49pm
And to all whom have doubts, Yes i tried h3 before. The blue sponge properly boosted. It has more dwell time than tenergy, better short game than tenergy. It's just overall a superb rubber. My shot quality is better, it's spinnier, i can control the placement better etc.... But at what cost? How much time and money i need to spend to keep the rubber on my paddle that way? next week that same rubber got bubble. 

Time and money that I could spend with family and do other stuff will go wasted if I were to be an h3 user at my level and planning to get better.


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USATT: Current 2139 as of 11/2019


Posted By: patrickhrdlicka
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 4:21pm
I played with classic speed-glued rubbers during my childhood (Vario, Mark V, Visco), and usual suspects when I started playing again as a middle-aged guy (Tenergy, MX-P, etc...) before switching to H8 and then H3, and seem to be doing fine with it. I think it is all about style, adaptability and understanding how to contact the ball (brushing versus hitting into sponge). H3 offers the best value among all rubbers imo, especially because the topsheet as excellent durability in terms of grip, as long as it is properly stored and cleaned. Regular orange H3 commercial for practice play (have never had any bubbles), and blue H3 Nat'l for tournament play (bubbles only after extended periods of play, and typically only after converting tournament sheets to practice sheets), not or minimally boosted. Is it for everybody? Probably not, but is it possible to get used to it at a later stage in life and still improve.  

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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

Youtube channel: youtube.com/c/PatricksPingPongPassion

USATT rating: 2k+


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 7:00pm
"h3 is trash. Buy a sheet of joola or stay safe and play t05. it will save you money."

So basically you are telling everyone NOT to use H3, calling it "trash", because YOU don't know how to use it. How self centered is that??

FdT


Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 7:15pm
His last response actually gave his previous post much needed context:
He used to use H3 national boosted, which didn't perform consistently and the boosted effect didn't last. It also bubbled. The combination of all these negatives makes it trash, compared to the speed glue effect rubbers he mentioned.

Based on his previous post, I too got the impression that he said H3 is trash across the board out of the box.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 11/26/2019 at 11:43pm
ITTF LOOKING TO ENFORCE SAMENESS OF THE SPONGES.

ITTF gonna to end DHS production of and marketing Hurricane rubber series with the so many combinations. (a variety of 14 different sponges being attached to a H3 topsheet, --some insane proliferation of H3 rubbers, indeed).
ITTF will allow DHS to only market one type of standard H3 with a same sponge of 40 degree.   No more "Neo" "Provincial" "National" H3 versions.   Just a generic H3 topsheet combined with 40* sponge of any color.   Such a minimization of sponge selection would be to everyone's special benefit and better playing consistency.

As an example to praise, a good many of ESN rubbers, such as Andro RASANTER series, have been using this "sameness principle" for many years to a better satisfaction of Andro's customers.
03 -037 Rasanter R37   In
03 -039 Rasanter R42   In
03 -041 Rasanter R47   In
03 -042 Rasanter R50   In

/Be happy/




Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 11/27/2019 at 12:15am
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

I played with classic speed-glued rubbers during my childhood (Vario, Mark V, Visco), and usual suspects when I started playing again as a middle-aged guy (Tenergy, MX-P, etc...) before switching to H8 and then H3, and seem to be doing fine with it. I think it is all about style, adaptability and understanding how to contact the ball (brushing versus hitting into sponge). H3 offers the best value among all rubbers imo, especially because the topsheet as excellent durability in terms of grip, as long as it is properly stored and cleaned. Regular orange H3 commercial for practice play (have never had any bubbles), and blue H3 Nat'l for tournament play (bubbles only after extended periods of play, and typically only after converting tournament sheets to practice sheets), not or minimally boosted. Is it for everybody? Probably not, but is it possible to get used to it at a later stage in life and still improve.  

What made you go to h3 from h8?
i just bought few sheets of h8 just to see how it will play without booster.


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"Don't be an EJ, don't be an EJ, don't be a... oh look a sale at tt11!"


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 11/27/2019 at 12:21am
also i never noticed much difference between h3 neo comm sheets in terms of sheet to sheet variation, especially in weight. There is some tackiness variation but thats about it but everyone who used any h3  knew that.

Ive also tried the prov h3 neo version and which however felt better quality it didnt play much different from the comm version. 

Here are some h8 sheets i measured inside the package, since im not opening them yet but as you can see they are within 1g in weight.




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"Don't be an EJ, don't be an EJ, don't be a... oh look a sale at tt11!"


Posted By: patrickhrdlicka
Date Posted: 11/27/2019 at 2:08am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

I played with classic speed-glued rubbers during my childhood (Vario, Mark V, Visco), and usual suspects when I started playing again as a middle-aged guy (Tenergy, MX-P, etc...) before switching to H8 and then H3, and seem to be doing fine with it. I think it is all about style, adaptability and understanding how to contact the ball (brushing versus hitting into sponge). H3 offers the best value among all rubbers imo, especially because the topsheet as excellent durability in terms of grip, as long as it is properly stored and cleaned. Regular orange H3 commercial for practice play (have never had any bubbles), and blue H3 Nat'l for tournament play (bubbles only after extended periods of play, and typically only after converting tournament sheets to practice sheets), not or minimally boosted. Is it for everybody? Probably not, but is it possible to get used to it at a later stage in life and still improve.  

What made you go to h3 from h8?
i just bought few sheets of h8 just to see how it will play without booster.

Initially, I followed the recommendation of my 2500-level friend from China. I did some side-by-side testing and found that my opening loops were spinnier with H3 compared to H8. In addition, I felt like having a little bit more safety on loops, whereas H8 has an edge if power-looping from mid-distance. Other factors that contributed in making me feel comfortable with H3 is its lower weight, greater sponge selection, and slightly better topsheet consistency (I was put off by a couple of very "plasticky" H8 topsheets in latter batches). The rubber switch was also a step towards tweaking my playing style towards becoming a more traditional FH looper rather than a flat hitter.  

Truth be told, though, I would be able to play within 50 rating points with either rubber. 


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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

Youtube channel: youtube.com/c/PatricksPingPongPassion

USATT rating: 2k+


Posted By: bars
Date Posted: 11/27/2019 at 3:24am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:


Can you explain the importance of proper gluing? Some people use multi-layer of glue to get more springiness out of setup. Booster also adds to the speed. What is the recommended way to glue boosted H3? Would you use both - boosting and thick glue or only one of these?

This is the matter of taste. And it must accompany with the blade and style.
For example, someone uses Viscaria, play close to the table, hit hard. He should use thick layer of glue + booster. Vice versa, a thin 5 flies blade doesn't need that thickness.




hi can you elaborate on this a bit. does the thick glue make it softer?more dwell? why would the other blade not want this also


Posted By: acpoulos
Date Posted: 12/01/2019 at 8:27pm
Boosted my new H3 Neo orange sponge with a small amount of Australian Tea Tree Oil (yes, you read that right). It soaked right in, and a few hours later the rubber domed up quite nicely. Will try it out Tuesday...

-------------
Tony


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 12/01/2019 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Boosted my new H3 Neo orange sponge with a small amount of Australian Tea Tree Oil (yes, you read that right). It soaked right in, and a few hours later the rubber domed up quite nicely. Will try it out Tuesday...

It is one of my secrete ingredient...


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Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 1:35am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Boosted my new H3 Neo orange sponge with a small amount of Australian Tea Tree Oil (yes, you read that right). It soaked right in, and a few hours later the rubber domed up quite nicely. Will try it out Tuesday...

It is one of my secrete ingredient...

probably smells better than any other booster out there!


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"Don't be an EJ, don't be an EJ, don't be a... oh look a sale at tt11!"


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 8:12am
Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

The H3 Neo I received from him was sealed in original packaging. Just a commercial sheet as far as I could tell. 

As long as you use that one, you will find out its consistency and durability are so different from the others, even "NT or Prov" versions.
However, the original version (non-neo) is the best, as I only use the original one (and suggest to my students to use)

The secret is, non of actual pro Chinese players use the rubbers you could buy from the market, with the label "pro" and "NT".

The learning players (but their level is higher than everyone here) use "normal" H3
The provincial team players (their ranking is around 100 of the world ranking) use "normal" H3
The NT B team players use "normal" H3 sometimes.

So why the * a so low player on Earth is seeking for NT H3???

The main difference from the H3 using by Chinese players is, it has been chosen carefully by the coach among real H3 sheets.

There is nothing about booster.
But wrong booster will cause worse result.






How many provincial team level players are in china?


Posted By: acpoulos
Date Posted: 12/02/2019 at 9:43am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by chop4ever chop4ever wrote:

Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Boosted my new H3 Neo orange sponge with a small amount of Australian Tea Tree Oil (yes, you read that right). It soaked right in, and a few hours later the rubber domed up quite nicely. Will try it out Tuesday...

It is one of my secrete ingredient...


probably smells better than any other booster out there!


The stuff has a strong odor. Wife was giving me grief about it. She has absolutely no EJ blood in her. Seriously, I have used the Hurricane with 2 cuts on the package and 4 cuts and have always had good results boosting.

-------------
Tony


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 12/14/2019 at 10:41am
finally experimented with a commercial H3N without boosting - it plays fine but I suspect it is harder to win points as the balls are returned with greater regularity.   For practice or pure joy of rallying it let's you put more effort into the rallies while having great regularity.  The top sheet looks ugly compared to pro or national versions.



Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 12/15/2019 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

finally experimented with a commercial H3N without boosting - it plays fine but I suspect it is harder to win points as the balls are returned with greater regularity.   For practice or pure joy of rallying it let's you put more effort into the rallies while having great regularity.  The top sheet looks ugly compared to pro or national versions.


I cant glue a boosted H3 since it seems the harder the sponge the harder to attach it to the blade


Posted By: ProtossTT
Date Posted: 12/15/2019 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

finally experimented with a commercial H3N without boosting - it plays fine but I suspect it is harder to win points as the balls are returned with greater regularity.   For practice or pure joy of rallying it let's you put more effort into the rallies while having great regularity.  The top sheet looks ugly compared to pro or national versions.


I cant glue a boosted H3 since it seems the harder the sponge the harder to attach it to the blade


You need to wait for it to fully dry it takes about a week on average. I rush and only wait 4 days while blow drying it every day for a few hours. Then glue it on with a foam brush from any arts and craft store. Do a quick layer blow dry it then add another. Repeat for 3 layers total. Place a cutting mat and get a roller or object to roll your rubber with then start from bottom slowly rolling it on. You can place it under a book or heavy object in case it doesn't stick 100%. Once it's on you need to have a good practice session with it then if you still don't like it or it has dead spots simply remove and take off the glue layer. Reglue and roll back on



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