Tomahawk vs Sword serve
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Topic: Tomahawk vs Sword serve
Posted By: JohanFoludre
Subject: Tomahawk vs Sword serve
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 1:25am
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I know they both side-spin counter-clockwise (right handed server) looking from the top down at thw table. 1. But which one can be more spinny. 2. Which is more effective. I see Ding Ning doing the Tomahawk with some success but many Japanese seem to prefer the sword because it is easier to switch from sword to reverse sword at the last moment of contact . Lots of people use Tomahawk and does not seem very useful & it is hard to hide whether Tomahawk or reverse Tomahawk as well as sword & reverse sword |
Replies:
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 2:06am
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Never heard of this "sword" serve. Can you provide an example of it? Unless it is know by another name... FdT
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Posted By: JohanFoludre
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 4:33am
No it is known as sword serve. It is called as such because many Japanese do it like as in Samurai sword. I have seen Jun Mizutani do it and many Japanese girls. In fact there is a video in some US Open of a Japanese girl doing this in a very unusual fashion also with a high toss. In a Tomahawk serve , the racket moves left to right (parallel to the net) for a righty & of course right to left if it is a reverse tomahawk. The rackethead is above the wrist for the tomahawk serve which is equivalent in side-spin direction to a reverse pendulum serve where the rackethead is below the wrist and moves like a pendulum. The ball rotates counter-clockwise in a plane parallel to ground and table viewed from above looking down. Of course the pendulum serve is equivalent of reverse tomahawk. But in a sword serve (& reverse sword serve) , the racket head (though also above the wrist) is moving in a direction pointing straight at the receiver but only the racket edge and not the racket face is moving straight towards the opponent. It is like a Samurai warrior moving a sword , if you know what I mean ( ergo the name sword serve). But the big advantage of sword serve is that you can contact the ball with your forehand side (for sword serve) or backhand side (for reverse sword serve). So this doesn't give the opponent a lot of time to read the side spin direction. A (righty) sword server stand right in the middle of the table and serve a sword serve towards forehand corner of (righty) receiver (same side-spin direction as tomahawk serve or reverse pendulum serve) or for a reverse sword serve towards backhand corner of a righty receiver. (same side-spin direction as reverse tomahawk serve or pendulum serve)
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Fulanodetal wrote:Posted By: YoAss
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 4:49am
| Maybe there's a video of that sword serve somewhere? I get what you're saying, but it wouldn't hurt to see an actual execution. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 4:52am
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Isn't that just a hook serve? ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: DarkerMyLove
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 5:01am
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Is it possible you just answered you own question about which is more effective? (ie sword serve) I have seen that sword serve with a few Japanese players but not too much. Either because it is not taught / not easy to master OR it is not super deceptive (yes it being fast movement has a certain deception). Or perhaps it is not easy to make 'variations' on the serves which would make it not so useful at higher levels or it is hard to keep the ball short. The fact that a youtube search on Sword serve table tennis garners no "tutorials" or videos says something I guess. To me the question about which is more 'spinny' is a question of one's own technique--> How well you are contacting the ball (brushing) and how fast can you more your arm (or wrist) would be the determination. |
Posted By: reflecx
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 7:11am
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Are you referring to this serve as the "sword" serve? |
Posted By: WeebleWobble
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 10:14am
No, he's referring to the serve Miu Hirano mostly uses.
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Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 11:31am
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The harakiri serve?    |
Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 11:52am
| This thread would've been a lot easier if OP simply provided a damn video showing what the hell a sword serve is. |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 1:17pm
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Im thinking that it is the "Hook Serve", not , sword serve. Japan is not the world. Here's a link of what I think OP is referring to. The guy on the video starts explaining the mechanics of it at around 10:00 so skip to that point.... FdT
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Posted By: Lightspin
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 3:47pm
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I am also somewhat mystified by the names but if I had to guess: The sword serve is a tomahawk serve where the racket edge is perpendicular to the end of the table. The racket also goes back to front along a line perpendicular to the end of the table straight towards the net. I am probably wrong though...
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 7:32pm
| Maybe Sword serve is a backhand serve like Dima? |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 7:48pm
Id say that the arm swing is like a tomahawk serve but the stance is more like a regular pendulum serve. Ive seen it being called "The Punch" serve as well. FdT
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Posted By: Jackcerry
Date Posted: 09/25/2019 at 8:59pm
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I think it’s just the hook serve like this one in the last video I made, it’s a great serve because you can put underspin, topspin or sidespin just contacting the ball with the rubber in different positions but with the same movement |
Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 11:01am
The hook serve can be deceptive once you mastered it but these receivers are just newbies. Even the server hasn't really mastered the serve. I could tell what spin he was doing most of the time and he just couldn't keep his serve low and short in many cases. You are better off learning from these guys in the video below. Unfortunately no translation for those who don't speak Japanese. https://youtu.be/C5ZkUVn_qbo" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/C5ZkUVn_qbo https://youtu.be/oA6c0ymE82g" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/oA6c0ymE82g
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Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 11:23am
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Hi, Let's attempt a clarification. Tomahawk: All tomahawk service motions are forehand motions. A synonym for the tomahawk service motion is hook. Sword: All sword service motions are backhand motions. Most service motions do not have names. Two accepted names are pendulum and reverse pendulum. Those motions which do not have names are described via noting a phrase that summarizes the service shot type itself. To do so, usage is made of both the service motion attributes and the produced characteristics of the service. An example is: backhand, left-sidespin-topspin serve. Another example is: long, forehand nospin serve. Thanks, ------------- Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber. |
Posted By: hleett
Date Posted: 09/27/2019 at 1:47pm
| Tomahawk=戰斧式FH。Sword=拔劍式BH。 |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 09/28/2019 at 4:48am
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https://youtu.be/bmqdiSYau8Q" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/bmqdiSYau8Q A former dutch top player made it his trademark
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Posted By: DannyKahn
Date Posted: 09/29/2019 at 12:12am
Maybe a misnomer because the twist serve in tennis (known as the American twist) only breaks from left to right of a righty sever (towards the left the receiver) and not the other way which is the slice serve. Also the sword serve (from a righty server) will break towards the right of the receiver (like a slice in tennis) but a reverse sword wlll go the opposite way (towards the left of the receiver like a twist aerve in tennis) .
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Posted By: Slowhand
Date Posted: 09/29/2019 at 12:36am
| Can someone perhaps link a video of a sword serve? Apparently it's not a tomahawk serve. Is it another name for a hook/punch/jab serve? Don't think I've noticed a pro player using the backhand side of the blade to hit a reverse hook serve but I'm sure it's doable. Is that a sword serve? What the hell is a sword serve? |
Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 09/29/2019 at 11:56am
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OP is talking about the "Prince Serve" or 王子サーブ, famously used by Haruna Fukuoka. This was developed by Rokuro Sakuma at his academy. His students include Ai Fukuhara, Haruna Fukuoka, Keiko Okazaki, and Akiko Takeda. All of them sans Fukuhara were OX Long pips block and smash type players, and he is the one behind Nittaku's Goriki line of blades and rubbers. Here is Okazaki against Tian Jing Zorner: and here is Sakuma explaining the serve in a training video he did with Fukuoka： ------------- Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect Yinhe Qing |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/29/2019 at 3:54pm
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Don't we know this as "The Reverse Tomahawk" serve? Isn't this Ding Nings signature serve? I remember seeing a young Kenta Matzudaira doing it many times as well FdT
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 12:37am
| I remember her! That is a really strange serve for sure. Doesn't seem real sword like. |
Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 8:15am
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Hi, With exceeding happiness it may now be confidently expressed that the table tennis world, in its ever-evolving nomenclature developmental process, has finalized the selection of the final term for this serve, namely "sword" or "harakiri" or "reverse tomahawk" or "punch" or "twist" or "American twist" or "Prince". It is in these moments of emerging, crystal clear clarity that boldly we go. Thanks,
------------- Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber. |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 10:26am
You have such a civilized way to express frustration.In my imaginary vacation in Switzerland where I moved no less fictitious money between all those pretend accounts, I stopped by the local fanciful club where they call that serve the « knife ». ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 8:45pm
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So its a Wind Shield Wiper serve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_DQiqF9vlo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_DQiqF9vlo |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 10:26pm
Nope. The japanese girl in the video provided is making contact with the back of her hand, not the front. Similar motion though, I had the same reaction until I saw which side of the racket she was making contact with. IT is definitely a "Reverse Tomahawk". End of story. FdT
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Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 09/30/2019 at 11:05pm
You can do windshield wiper serves with the reverse side. For tomahawk, the blade is more towards the table with a hook.
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