Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic
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Topic: Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic
Posted By: dyfferent
Subject: Nittaku Violin vs Nittaku Acoustic
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 5:33am
I am looking for a cure of my EJ virus. Please help me out  I am a believer of the Chinese Philosophy: Blade provides feeling and the rubbers provide the speed. My current setup is: Primorac FL 87g with DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial OS 41° 2.15mm on forehand and an old sheet of Butterfly Tenergy 05 2.0 red on backhand. I plan to try out DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial BS 40° 2.15mm on my forehand and DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard (~37°) on my backhand. I have Chinese-like strokes on both my forehand and backhand and my backhand is better from a couple of steps away from the table. I usually win with spin, but can generate speed through my physique. I prefer control over speed or power, because I can provide those myself. Now the questions of questions: Should I go for the Acoustic or the Violin? My research came up with the following differences (only the new versions): Acoustic Violin Plies: Limba-Limba-Tung-Limba-Limba WhiteAsh-WhiteAsh-Kiri-WhiteAsh-WhiteAsh Something I could not find is the thickness of each ply. If anyone could supply that , that would be awesome. Size: 158x150 5.7mm thick 156x149 5.3mm thick If you approximate the Surface area of a blade as an ellipsis, you get: 186.159cm^2 182.558cm^2 Leaving a discrepancy of ~3.6cm^2, which should be interesting for the choice of rubber. This means Acoustic becomes more hear heavy and heavier overall by a gram or two. As I said, this blades is supposed to cure my emerging EJ virus once and for all. I like the look of the violin handle better than the acoustic. I like the idea of it being somewhat different to my Primorac. But would I instead just get the more similar one and go for the Acoustic ? Can you guys help me out ? |
Replies:
Posted By: Simon_plays
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 8:08am
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I genuinely think there is no way to tell which of these blades will suit anyone better unless they've tried them for a longer period. Also, if you're going to change both rubbers and your blade at the same time it will be very difficult to tell why your new set up will be different to your old one. I would say keep your current blade and just get some new rubbers. These blades are far more expensive than a Primorac but that doesn't mean they'll play much better.
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Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 10:52am
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Your Primorac is right in between Acoustic and Violin in terms of speed. So the question to ask yourself is do you want a little more control or a little more speed. Violin is more of an ALL + blade to me. For Butterfly and Nittaku 5 plys in terms of speed i rate them as Violin<Primorac<Acoustic <Korbel<Tenor<Mazunov. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:13am
| They both beautiful blades and must have in collection |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:27am
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I think all your points are valid.
I need to try both blades for some time and with the same rubbers to know for sure.
I think I want more control, so I know what blade to go for.
I really am someone that is very visual. If my rubber isn't cut properly it annoys me. That is also why I don't want to play with my Primorac anymore. It looks worn and has many dents on the blades' surface. To illustrate how visual I am: I just saw a DHS Hurricane King with Hurricane 3 blue sponge in black on its forehand, and it looked so flawless. The gray face of the blade, the black handle and the blue sponged black rubber were simply stunning. I guess I need to be pleased with the look of the blade. So I guess it now is Violin vs Hurricane King   Edit: it was a globe blue sponged rubber... http://mytabletennis.net/forum/members-of-dhs-hurricane-king_topic19957_page1.html
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Simon_plays wrote:Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:51am
just get Stiga Offensive Classic. it same Hurricane King for third price |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:55am
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To me they are both jewels for what they are good at. I prefer the Violin because it's more suited for the allround player with its rallying and divine blocking capabilities; I see the Acoustic as the best all wood 5-ply for the looping oriented player. No blade ever gave me a better sense of "I can't miss" than the Violin. That feeling that nobody can kick me out of the point raises the Violin to the pantheon of tt blades but it's personal of course, some people say the same about the Primorac all wood 5-ply that I never liked; blades like the Avalox P500, the Butterfly Korbel, the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha, the Nexy Spear, the Xiom Aria are great all wood 5-ply but somehow they all fall short of something and I always come back to the Violin.
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:55am
I think that only goes for the old version; the new version uses limba as its outermost ply. But there are avalox p500 and the xiom fuga have the same ply configuration.
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:58am
Thing is I would consider myself as a loop oriented player. I spin basically everything, but I value control more than speed. Thing I need to find out is whether I value control over spin, or looping... Also heard the Acoustic is head heavy, which I don't like.
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Posted By: Ray
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 11:59am
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Any particular reason not to take Latika into consideration? Nittaku quality blade made in Japan for about one third of the price of Acoustic/Violin. ------------- Life is too short for defensive play. https://twitter.com/spinnier_com" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/spinnier_com https://fb.me/spinnier" rel="nofollow - fb.me/spinnier |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 12:06pm
Not really, but I didn't like the Infinity VPS, which has the same ply configuration. I think I want to try out something with a harder outer ply, as I only ever played with limba outer plies. I just heard so many great things about the acoustic, which is why I would consider giving it a try, If I were to be convinced
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 12:07pm
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One day a friend at the club when I was 1200 and looking up to 1600 bought a Violin and he was so excited. He had been 1600 all his life, was in his late 50s 15 years ago, bought a Violin and let me try it saying "It's like magic, it's slow when you want control and fast when you need speed!". Saying that, he summarized its qualities the best. Truth is he was like a kid, he had finally found his blade. Nobody will ever be taken seriously saying the Violin is not good at looping, it's a 5-ply all wood after all. I think where the Acoustic would surpass the Violin in looping would be a level far above than ours. What I have finally settled on thinking of the Violin is that it's better than any other blade at being a true extension of our arm, it gives us what we put in and does not do things on its own.
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: Dream1700
Date Posted: 11/17/2019 at 8:27pm
| Nittaku blades have thin handles AFAIK. I don't know if the handle shape matters to OP. |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 4:34am
It does, but the FL LG-type handle seems fine
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:12am
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Does it matter that much? I hardly imagine a situation where you would say, "oh, I lost this because I played with Violin, I should have got myself Acoustic :)" Get any you like the most, then after 6 month get another one, what's the deal? EJ orbits are stable, you go: All wood then move on to ALC or other carbons, then back to all wood. Alternative entry is through carbon to all wood and back :) Honestly, I doubt that you can get noticeably more spin than with Primorac. If Primorac is not spinny or not controllable enough for you, your problem is either lack of technique or crazy hard FH rubber (you use H41), but most likely - both factors. I am not fan of boosters, but H41 is meant to be boosted in order to soften it. For normal mortals, like us, hardness 39 DHS scale is a top limit, H38 is spot on. Whatever crazy spinny loop with kick effect you can do now with H41 you will still be able to do with H38 too, but with much higher success rate. If you have strong wrist then 3-60 in H37 is very good choice, BH or even FH it will play well. Even though H37 label might sound softish after H41, it is a rather firm sponge under not too much elastic topsheet, hence requires powerful shots. Some time ago I sold AVX J-TECH blade, now I miss it so much. Would exchange Primorac for J-TECH any day. Consider your blade experience incomplete until you try kiso hinoki as top ply. Well, happy e-junking :) ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:39am
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I really think I am going for a Violin FL LG. It won't ever make a big difference, even compared to my Primorac. But it's a psychological thing. I just like the look of the Violin and its superb reputation as a controllable blade that is "an extension of your hand". I boosted the 41° Hurricane with 3 layers of falco, so it's not nearly as hard as it used to be and I can handle it pretty well. It like hard rubbers, more linear, I like that. I am only going to use the booster go break in the next Hurricane and I do have a strong and fast wrist, which is why I think the Skyline 3-60 will fit so well. I sincerely hope that I am going to stick with the Vioin for some years, if not forever. It seems like a blade that ended quite some EJ careers Now I just need to decide on a weight of 87,88,89,90,91,92
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:41am
Until you try ALC :) ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:45am
This pretty much embodies the kind of reviews that convinced me
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:46am
I have and I don't particularly like the weird vibrations those things give me. I really think the Nittaku Violin FL LG will cure me
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:50am
If my math is correct, then 3-60 weights around 50g (not more) when cut to 157x150 Since you are boosting and let me guess, using 2x glue layer, then ... 88g ? I wonder how 90+ weights got into your list??
------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:51am
Just for the record, what ALC did you try? My ALC is smooth as butter comparing to Primorac. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:58am
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:00am
I tried my coaches Timo Boll Spirit with boosted Tenergy 05 and a mates andro Treiber something as well as another Butterfly ALC carbon. I also tried an inner carbon alc by butterfly at their store. the feeling I was talking about is probably only the lack of lower frequency vibrations from the wood and the higher frequency vibrations of the carbon. It feels funny to me, as I never played with carbon for a longer period. I think it is because the natural vibrations of the wood become muffled because the carbon stiffens the blade and overshadows them.
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:15am
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My Calculation was something like: blade surface 157x150=194.7sqcm (somewhere in a forum talking about old butterfly blades surface) blade surface 157x150 (approximated as ellipsis)=184.9sqcm blade surface 156x149 (approximated as ellipsis)=182.5sqcm difference ellipsis=2.4sqcm so blade surface 194.7sqcm-2.4sqcm=192.3sqcm 192.3sqcm×0.256g/sqcm(Hurricane 2.2BS)=49.2288 192.3sqcmx0.24g/sqcm(Median of 3-60 soft and regular Skyline3)=46.152 total=95.37675 I don't even know how this is supposed to help me decide
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:16am
Vibrations subject is difficult to reason about, people receive it differently. ALC meant to dumpen them. What you felt could be what other people refer to as "crisp" feeling of outer koto. I thoughts it is weird when tried first time, but love it now. It's like ball on your palm, you know exactly where it's landed. Limba never gave me that feel. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:20am
Which is why I am buying the violin which doesn't have limba outers but I'm going to stick to all wood until I really need more speed, which I doubt will ever happen. I know oberliga players that play with stiga allround or offensive classic and have a forehand like
 ... a truck, a train or something similarly big, heavy or fast |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:22am
If this is correct then 87g Do you really want to play 190g racket!? P.S. Btw none of my rubbers taken from Viscaria (157x150) cover full surface of Primorac. Primorac head is bigger, right? ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:28am
How much does glue and edge tape weigh? I think I would be fine with just under 190... ~189 or something like that. I am going to weigh my Primorac later, when I get home and see how much it is. I think I could handle a heavier blade, because I am about 6'0 and quite athletic. I also need to weigh my HL3 which I found to heavy, but that had a bigger head size of 158x150. So it wasn't all about the blade but also the rubbers' size. I think old Primorac used to be 158x150, but don't quite me in that. I know Korbel is bigger than. 157x150
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:37am
I am not trying to change your opinion, but for the completeness of this discussion I have to add one thing. I moved from all wood to ALC with idea to gain a bit of everything and especially, to climb one step in speed while keeping good spin (since blade is 5.8mm). Some time after I adjusted, a better player in the club took my racket, looked at handle (ZJK) and said something like "wow". He meant to cheer on the price, thinking it is ZLF. But I told him that it is humble ALC, simpliest of all. His reply shocked me - he said, "ALC, yes very good blade, good for defence". Put racket into my hand and walked away leaving me with my jaw opened. "Oh God", I thought. But then after three more months I realised that, he being not English speaker, meant to say "good for control". ZJK (or Viscaria) ALC is not faster than Primorac. Simply not. Shorter dwell is due to koto layer, but no way it is faster. Enlarged sweet spot - yes. Allows you to comfortably play up to 2 more meters behind the table - yes. Faster? No. Long 5 is faster, but not because of ALC, I think spruce in the 2nd layer springs like crazy. So, just for the record ALC is good enough once you move past ALL+ level. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:47am
I use medium layer of glue on each surface. Somewhere around 4-5 g. With tape is 5. I can comfortably handle 190g. For the last 2 months I played 193g. However from last week I started doing more advanced BH training and immediately felt that 193g is too much for BH. God rid of tape and also made rubbers even with the blade (I had some bevel around, so could cut it out). I am sporty but small build. If you are big then 187 - 190 should be fine. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:50am
You said you are on Primorac with H3 and looking for better control. Well, something is adding speed to your setup, cause otherwise it is already very controllable. I thought it must be glue or stretched sheet of rubber. Maybe guess was wrong :) ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 7:54am
yes it is very controllable, but I think multiple layers of glue is just what EJs do
thought yoj infered that from me being a small EJ |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:27am
One last question regarding the Skyline 3-60... I don't know whether 2.0 or 2.1mm is better. 2.0 is more controllable and obviously slightly lighter, but is 2.0 too slow on an allround blade? You seem to have experience playing the Skyline 3-60
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:46am
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I am finishing second sheet of 3-60 and have 2 more in stock without any intention to change. I play 2.1mm from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961827334.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961827334.html On ALC it's a dream. If you are coming from tenergy, be ready for big difference. Not bouncy, not springy, you cannot put tricky spin by stretching topsheet. It's not a tensor. I never boosted it. You get what you want by compressing cake sponge. When I played allround blades I used to use STN or 729 08-ES (H45) on BH. STN sponge is also cake, but it is a blue one and it is harder. However, topsheet is elastic making it work for BH very well. Feeling of 3-60 on ALC is similar to STN on all wood. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:48am
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RE: 2.0 vs 2.1 My rule is - when in doubt always go for thicker. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 3:32am
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Ok, weight... so here it goes: My Hurricane Long 3 ST weighs 92g this was too head heavy for me, but I think it's mostly because of the large head and comparatively thin handle. my whole Primorac setup weighs 188.3g, but my Tenergy doesn't stretch over the whole surface area... But I think I would be fine with 188-192g |
Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 8:57am
How is skyline 3-60 durability?
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:01am
| Update: my Hurricane 41° weighs 52g with the glue layer x) and the T05 50g. The substitute sheet of H3Neo 2.15, which I'll use until the Skyline 3-60 arrives, only weighs 46g. I'll see how the weight difference plays out... |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:02am
judging by Skyline and Hurricane rubbers' durability, it should be quite good. Don't know about the sponge though...
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Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 9:06am
my 3-60 weight 62 uncut and 44 cut |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 1:41pm
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Hi, I was in very similar place but I ended up on the other side of camp with the Acoustic (C.Pen). I’m in love with it and since then bought another (because I had a minor crack from an unfortunate event during match play- but later repaired myself). However, I still do wonder about the violin. As I am quite an athletic person, I wonder if the extra control the Violin supposedly offers would benefit my offensive game. The other thing that goes through my head is that I am pretty heavy on the spin game (aggressive looper). I’m just waiting for that day to try one... Regarding your rubber choices, I’m in a similar place with Skyline TG2 NEO for FH on one (and Provincial blue sponge -2.2, 40 deg on my back up) with my BH being skyline 3-60 (and Hurricane 3-50 on my back up). I’m in love with the S3-60. I have it at mid hard 2.1. It’s a very controlled and spinny rubber and I don’t intend to change it. I was hopeful for the H3-50 to be just a higher throwing, tad slower S3-60... but it’s way slower, less spinny and WAY softer. Maybe I got bit by the legendary-poor DHS QC? Perhaps it’s really a soft version in the mid package? I’m not sure... maybe someone else who’s compared both can enlighten us. I can’t wait to hear about your violin setup after a few hours of training and some matches. Good luck! ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 1:54pm
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I never tried the Violin with tacky rubbers; those are generally slow and the Violin can use a bit of oomph from the rubbers but it's personal (I'm not that athletic...). My best sensations with the Violin are with the R47 because it's fast and so versatile, a bit like the blade itself. On that blade, the G-1 works wonders as well of course. Those 2 rubbers are in the low $30 when purchased in conjunction with the 3=4 discount, at least they were not a long ago. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 3:40pm
It can take 100 hours of play. Then you can still keep it for more ... but if you put new rubber next to it, you will notice the difference. Top sheet gets polished and tackiness goes. Durability is similar to with hurricanes. given the funny price I don't bother after 100 hrs, just replace. ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 5:01pm
Interesting! really quite similar. I have decided on going for a heavy violin 90-92g and on getting the Skyline 3-60 ~37° 2.1 red for my backhand. But today I tested an old Hurricane 3 Neo, which I disliked when I first tried it, but today I loved it. Now I'll have to decide, if I go for a Hurricane 3 or Hurricane 3 Neo... I'm going to get a provincial, probably BS (never tried BS, want to give it a try) I heard the same thing about the 3-50 ... underwhelming with a small minority praising it (as goes for most rubbers) Can't wait to report on my Violin setup. But first going to debate on my exact forehand rubber (H3, but which version) and exact blade weight (90,91,92g)...
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 5:01pm
heard similar things about R47, but am pretty set on Chinese / hybrid rubbers...
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Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 5:44pm
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Chinese rubbers will work well. Ma Long used Violin and then switched to Acoustic for a couple years . ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/19/2019 at 10:49pm
I also went for the heaviest blades that were available at that time. I think it’s good practice if you can handle it. With my experience between Neo vs. provincial (BS), I’m more of a fan for the more accessible Neo commercial variants. I don’t boost (but I also don’t feel like I need to with a 40 deg 2.2 BS), nor do I need any of the extra catapult from the provincial or national series sponges yet. I guess we will see if that changes in the future. ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 2:17am
yeah, leaning towards 92g / the heaviest as well. I don't know if I misunderstood, but there technically are no differences between commercial, provincial and national variants besides quality control (at least standard Orange Sponge) Although the difference between commercial and provincial is quite obvious, the difference between provincial and national is rather small. So there should not be any extra catapult (unless you're talking about different sponges only available in provincial/national variants).
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Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 3:21am
Yeah the top sheets are the same, the sponge is where it’s coming from. Blue sponge is quite different from the Neo in my experience as far as throw height and spin potential. ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 3:51am
Not too sure about H3 vs H3Neo though. H3 is said to be less elastic and more tacky. No official source though. Looking it up on the DHS website
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Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 10:01am
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UPDATE: I ordered: Blade: Nittaku Violin FL LG in 92g or the heaviest available (the e-mail correspondence was confusing to me, listing ST and FL Nittaku Violins, when asked for a list of Nittaku Violin FL LG - hoping for the best )FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Blue Sponge 40° 2.15mm black BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° 2.1mm red really looking forward to assembling the blade with those sick Nittaku Red-Black-Red Edge tape So this should definitely satisfy me visually. Now it only has to play as well as it looks Review of the setup following in about a week.
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Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 10:36am
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congrats and good luck! Be sure to post some pictures too :) ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 11:38am
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we should always choose the heaviest we can handle, that 92g Violin might be a jewel, can't wait for the review, good luck! ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/20/2019 at 12:57pm
Agreed! It’s probably faster than my two 88g Acoustics! ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/21/2019 at 3:21am
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Given that you want 92g (!!!) blade, what is the final weight you are expecting to play with? ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/21/2019 at 4:37am
I expect the DHS Hurricane 3 Neo provincial BS 40° to hopefully be lighter than 50g ~48g (156x149! instead of 157x150) and I hope for my Skyline 3-60 mid-hard ~37° to weigh ~46g... With my blade weighing 92g, I hope for: 92g+48g+46g+5g (glue and edge tape) = 191g or similar. I think I would be finde with a 193g blade as well as with a 188g blade.
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Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/21/2019 at 7:49am
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This math looks fine. The only thing that your rubber weight will be opposite - H3 will be lighter but 3-60 - heavier than you predict. But overall will still be the same :) ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/21/2019 at 2:33pm
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I think it’s a manageable overall weight. Stable blocking, momentous loops and drives. Wooo! ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/22/2019 at 10:43am
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So... TT11 surpassed my expectations and delivered today uncut sheets weighed in at DHS H3Neo 2.15 40° BS 66g (2 corners cut) DHS Skyline 3-60 mid-hard 62g (4 corners cut) and as expected the Nittaku Violin FL LG weighed 92g can't wait to get it assembled. first pictures following soon... ------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/22/2019 at 7:30pm
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Ok, this first impression is very incomplete, but I want to write it anyway. I glued the Skyline 3-60 using 2 layers of revolution glue on both the blade and the rubber, and attached an old (but playable) H3 provincial OS 41°, which is a bit too mushy due to overtuning, to the other side of the blade using 1 layer of butterfly free chack pro. My H3Neo BS is still in tuning (1 layer of revolution glue 1 thin layer of Falco)... I immediately jumped into a league match, which - in hindsight - wasn't the best idea. Due to the harder outer plies, the rubbers felt more spinsensitive than usual. The backhand especially was really bad. Mostly, because I had an old T05 on it before, but also because the 3-60 is just far more sensitive to spin. Forehand was fine, but I still think the racket is a little more sensitive to spin overall. On the other hand, that spin sensitivity also let me serve and loop with a little bit more spin - it felt crisp. If I had to put a number on it, spin increased by about 2% for loops / slow topspins and about 5% on serves. Something that I noticed immediately is the decreased speed in countering and blocking. Especially warming up, I noticed that I could precisely measure how much power I needed to get the ball where I want it - eXxxTremely precise!!! That speed decrease however, cause my backhand to constantly go into the net when countering and when returning serves. As for backhand topspins: (if they hit) they were spinnier, but slower. I really needed to brush the ball. There were at least 4 backhand topspins over the 3 matches that definitely would have hit using a T05, but didn't due to the 3-60 being relatively unforgiving if you're not brushing the ball properly and "hit" too much. Well anyway, I think I played alright: lost double 2-3, lost first single, 2-3 won last single 3-2. If I had played with a sheet of Tenergy 05 or Rozena on my backhand (what I was used to) i can almost guarantee I would have won both the single and the double. There were just so many mistakes on my already bad backhand, that the T05 / Rozena usually forgave. I am really looking forward to blueing the H3neo BS  Addition after a couple of minutes of brainstorming. The reason I chose TG 3-60 was because I play with a lot of spin and because my backhand stroke is somewhat long. those were pretty much the only upsides. The thing is, backhand is a lot more hitting in relation to brushing than forehand is... Downsides are: my backhand receive of long serves is horrible. My backhand short play is weaker than that of my forehand. I often am (slightly) out of position and dont have time for this pretty long stroke i use if I can, which is why I need a more forgiving rubber. I just need the flrgiveness and playing the 3-60 is doing it the hard way. Correct me if im wrong, but so far: FS:tg skyline 3-60 LF: Butterfly Rozena
------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/22/2019 at 9:15pm
Well, producing spin with tensor is different than spin with dull Chinese sheet that is true. From my personal experience - for new Chinese rubber to settle in 10 hours of play is required. For my brain to adjust - 20 hours of play. So, any decision before these timing marks could be misleading. I usually give myself 2 weeks where I just observe and learn. That is the reason I experiment on the secondary setup first, while keeping main racket as it was until decision is made. RE: 3-60. It is up to you to decide. This rubber is perfect in a slow game around the net. If you are getting pops there hm ... maybe loosen your grip on receive. It will make a huge difference. Btw, I am just curious - - Put racket on the table and drop ball on it from 30 cm or so. How high it is bouncing back and how many times? - What is weight of cut 3-60? - And what is weight of final racket setup? ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/24/2019 at 10:54am
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I just attached the H3Neo BS to my forehand side, after one mild layer of tuning to break it in. The cuttings weighed 18 and 20g. So my H3Neo BS cut the 156x149 weighs 66-20g cuttings = 46g and my Tg 3-60 weighs 62-18g cuttings = 44g. My assembled blade weighs 190g 92g blade + 46g H3Neo BS + 44g Th 3-60 + 8 grams of glue and (pretty thick) Nittaku Edge tape, as well as tuning in the BS... Edit: thinking about it, the cuttings also had glue on it, so the weight of the actual rubber is probably about a gram or so higher than my estimates... so: 47g H3Neo BS + 45g TG 3-60 + 92g Violin =184g racket + 6g of glue and edge tape
------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/28/2019 at 4:51pm
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Ok, so right upfront: this is going to be a lengthy review. I might even post this seperately as a review. The setup I'm reviewing is: Nittaku Violin LG FL 92g DHS Hurricane 3 Neo provincial blue sponge 40° 2.15 black on forehand Butterfly Rozena 2.1 red on backhand I tore off my TG 3-60 after the first session, as there was no need in changing my backhand rubber. I am quite content with the Rozena afterall. Although the TG 3-60 is a great rubber in its own respect, it just does not suite my backhand. The weight of the whole setup is about the same maybe ~192g (going to weigh it later). I tested this setup on several occasions, games, training, and so on. It did take some time to break it in, eventhough I tuned the H3Neo with a thin layer of falco long. Part of it might also be my transition from my old 87g Primorac. Back to topic - the review: Serves: Serves were as expected - very controlled and spinny. Although I must say, you have to use larger motions and wrist in order to get great spin. You don't get away with "flicky hick-hack"-serves. Just like with topspins with Chinese rubbers. The blades impact on my serving seems minor at best. It adds to the very controlled nature of the serves with Chinese rubbers. Short game: The short game even surpassed my expectations and I give most credits to the very linear nature of the Violin. It just amazes me; after breaking in and adjusting my technique slightly, I get very controlled returns. Even long serves I am sometimes able to return short or half-long. The H3Neo is somewhat spinsensitive, so a wrong racketangle will be punished, but as someone already put it: "the output of this blade is exactly what you put in". Flicks aren't really my strong suite, so I don't feel like commenting on that. Topspin: Topspins are quite something. Slow spinny loops don't really get to the blade, but they are quite controllable and really spinny. The H3Neo (topsheet) is quite good at that, and so is the Rozena for my backhand technique. Backhand topspins from a distance are not quite as spinny but really controlled and have quite some speed, which might not be expected from the Rozena rubber. Now here it comes: Forehand topspins - both at the table but especially from a distance - are amazing. The combination of the blade with the blue sponged H3Neo has so much spin and kick, my ~2000TTR coach had trouble blocking my ~1400 topspins (2nd LG 3rd topspin popped up high until he adjusted, he also commented on the high amount of spin) Although, I have to add my technique is much better than my TTR might suggest. My problems lie elsewhere... so the BS version definitely shines here! Blocks/Countering: Blocks and countering are both great! This is where the blade shines. The H3Neo is rather good at blocking, due to the slow speed and hard sponge, and the Rozena - although rather fast - is not as spin sensitive as other rubbers. Countering and assessing the power needed for a certain outcome is really easy, due to the controlled All+ nature of the blade TL;DR: The blade excels at what it is made for. Countering and blocking. Also you get out of what you put into it. As for the rubbers, the blue sponged H3 (probably doesn't matter if Neo or not) is quite something at a distance or at high gears, while still keeping the other great characteristics of Chinese Rubbers. My backhand is pretty bad comparatively, so it is quite forgiving and profits off the All+ speed of the blade. Might update this, but here it is
EJ virus might be cured ------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/28/2019 at 4:58pm
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...cured for you and reset for others like me!!! Congrats :) it looks like you’ve made a good decision. Thanks for the detailed review. I hope to hear more as the set up breaks in even further. So, the mid to far distance play doesn’t seem too slow for you yet, right? Are you ditching your last set up for good? If you could say how much slower the blade is In % what would you say? Same question for control? Thanks! ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 1:47am
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The mid distance play doesn't suffer, but I have to put a disclaimer there... I am studying sports science and am pretty athletic, so Power was never the issue. I lack control and that's about it. I hope that this setup will stay my only setup. The 5 g difference is noticeable, especially playing backhand topspins, but I think I will adapt accordingly. This is probably also why I don't lack too much or any power at half distance. The setup is quite heavy. Especially the 92g blade is above average weight. Blue Sponge might also have something to do with mod distance play, but my backhand is too weak for me to tell the difference. I'd say the blade is about 10% slower in general. Blocking and Countering ist definitely more precise and easier, but topspins and drive don't notice the slow down. I'd say for Forehand drives the blade is about 5% slower. Control is also a thing in mid distance play, you don't notice it too much there ~3-5%, but it can be adjusted to easily. As for short game Is say the decreased flexibility and increased control helped me a lot; about 10%. Overall the adjustment was slight and most noticeable in the blades strong suites. So short game Is amazing, while mod distance play doesn't suffer for me. The opposite is true, the blue sponge is definitely noticeable and the added control of the blade helps me estimate the power to be put into a shot accordingly. ------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: fmarek
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 3:24am
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ALL+ at 92 grams makes it OFF :) ------------- 729 Green Goblin 5, FH: 729 Battle II National H39, BH: Palio HK1997 Gold. DHS Long 5, FH: 729 Battle II Gold H40, BH: Nittaku C1 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 3:52am
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it’s probably faster than my 88g Acoustic! Thanks for your insights on the comparison. What about spin vs. your last set up? The Violin is less flexible, right? Do you notice any difference in your ability to spin in your loops on FH or BH? ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 11/29/2019 at 4:15am
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Right, it should be about Off- range. And about the spin: it seemed like it was less spin at first, but I think it is due to the harder outer layer. It just is somewhat less forgiving. But on slow loops and drives it doesn't really shine through. The only thing that might be slightly different are the serves. They tend to be more controlled in placement, but less forgiving in the creation of spin. Thing is, I am adjusting to it quite well, so it doesn't bother me, and I even feel like I create more spin now, but that might just be the rubber breaking in. I will keep you guys updated on how the setup develops over time. Should be getting even more accustomed to the feel and it should break in some more. ------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 12/26/2019 at 12:45pm
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[please delete] ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 12/26/2019 at 12:46pm
so... any updates on your violin!? Still loving it? Or have you moved on to something else ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 12/26/2019 at 1:48pm
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How does the Nittaku Violin compare to Butterfly Viscaria in terms of speed? How about spin potential? Interesting thread! I own a Nittakku Barwell, and I thought its quality was great.
FdT |
Posted By: dyfferent
Date Posted: 12/26/2019 at 2:42pm
It is way slower than viscaria. It is noticeably slower than my primorac... But the spinpotential is quite high. Its outstanding characteristic is being linear and putting out what you put into it. Compared to that the viscaria is a rocket ------------- DHS Neo Hurricane 3 40° BS 2.15 Nittaku Violin FL LG Butterfly Rozena 2.1 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 01/01/2021 at 11:18am
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Two years later and I’m still intrigued by violin...anyone in the LA area using a Violin in Chinese penhold willing to let me try their blade out!? ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: alas
Date Posted: 01/01/2021 at 5:10pm
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or! Anyone willing to swap a Chinese penhold Violin for an Acoustic for a set amount of time? Say.. 1-3 months? Or a straight up swap I would be interested in doing too. ------------- -Eric Nittaku Acoustic (Ch.Pen) DHS Skyline TG-2 NEO DHS Skyline 3-60 |
Posted By: marcosgg
Date Posted: 12/18/2021 at 11:57am
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Hi!
I agree
Nittaku Acoustic with no carbon is just better than any blade... I tested maybe 50 blades and all the acoustic versions... the new SG Special is the best (I played with LG for 1 year, amazing too); I like Violin Carbon Inner but not too much as Acoustic SG, and will be testing Violin LG by the next weeks I am also fan of chinese equipment philosophy! Sorry, I dont know if Violin or Acoustic will be better for you... ------------- https://tenisdemesajunin.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: marcosgg
Date Posted: 12/18/2021 at 7:35pm
I played with Viscaria for about a year... yes, it has a good control, it is good for blocking too, and for BH top, but Acoustic LG or SG allwood is way better: When I switched from Viscaria to Acoustic I started to beat players I hadn't beaten in 3 years: the blocks made a huge difference, and the fine touches on the table as well. No other blade that I know of has so much control being offensive, and such a wide range of intensity of hits ... maybe except for the Miyabi ... but even so whenever I try other blades I return to my Acoustic happy. Next test will be Violin LG with Victas TDE and Rakza Z. ------------- https://tenisdemesajunin.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: aerial
Date Posted: 12/20/2021 at 3:14pm
| I like the acoustic much more than the violin. The violin felt very stiff and hard to feel the ball for me whereas the acoustic was very receptive |