Butterfly Aibiss (new rubber)
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Topic: Butterfly Aibiss (new rubber)
Posted By: jpenmaster
Subject: Butterfly Aibiss (new rubber)
Date Posted: 06/19/2020 at 10:58am
Looks like an affordable D09c. Tacky topsheet, 50 degree hardness ,$39.99 release date 6/25 ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Replies:
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 06/19/2020 at 11:02am
Suppose to be spring sponge. 50 is harder than T05H or any Dignics. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: timoboll89
Date Posted: 06/19/2020 at 11:14am
| The trend seems to be flexible blade and hard rubber...im old school and i still prefer semi-rigid blade and tenergy series. Dignics is already too hard for me, probably too hard for 90% players who think they have a weapon but would play better with an acuda S2. This rubber at 50 degree is harder than a rock. |
Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 8:52am
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Hi, Looks like an affordable D09c. Tacky topsheet, 50 degree hardness ,$39.99 release date 6/25 Well, first; "affordable D09c" is an oxymoron, if the history of Butterfly is applicable. Second; at that price point and that sponge hardness, my guess is that the sponge is just an old formula China-rubber-sheet-source and will perform as such, which is to say it will not play like Dignics. Thanks.
------------- Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber. |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 9:21am
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Did they change the scale? I thought tenergy sponge was 47.5 and fx 42.5. So 50 would be harder the t05 but only a little. Must have changed. What is normal t05 on the scale they are using tonsay aibiss is 50°? This ej business is so confusing!
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Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 9:30am
So what, BTY fanboys will buy it in droves anyway. |
DonnOlsen wrote:Posted By: Skynet
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 9:48am
Why would Butterfly use a different scale? You basically have to add 10-11° on the scale that Butterfly uses and you get roughly the ESN hardness for the sponges. Tenergy FX = 32° equals 42/43 on ESN Tenergy = 36° equals 46/47 on ESN You can do the same for Rozena; T05 Hard, Dignics etc. So Aibiss would be roughly 60° on the "european" scale which ESN primarily uses.
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Posted By: mischasln
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 10:23am
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Butterfly's becoming the Apple of table tennis industry. ------------- https://bit.ly/3eHrGW3" rel="nofollow - Feedback | https://bit.ly/3rJUVho" rel="nofollow - J-Pen Sale |
Posted By: LOG1C1AN
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 11:34am
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For all their success, Butterfly needs help in their branding department. Tenergy was the perfect brand name. Sounds cool, and perfectly captures the spirit of the product. However, that was 12 years ago. Who is naming these recent offerings? Rozena? Dignics?? Aibiss??? |
Posted By: JediJesseS
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 12:21pm
| Tenergy is just as much a nonsense word as the others, you just already associate it retroactively with the successful product. |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 1:16pm
| I can get it all from cobbler's shop, just for a song. |
Posted By: passifid
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 1:30pm
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Almost tenergy was a good name as it came in with high tension and energy mixed together as well as a good product. Dignics might make more sense in Japan Also spinart for a tack rubber makes sense. I'd like this to be rebranded under the Tackfire brand (take out the I) as like Tackfire for aibis and Tackfire X for the dignics would made more sense Rozena at least sounds cool even if it's meaningless
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 1:51pm
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The folks at Butterfly are going aibyssal on us, surprise!
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 2:27pm
butterfly selliing a cheaper rubber its suspicious
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Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 4:30pm
I very much agree with you. I still have trouble pronouncing Dignics. I thought too that Tenergy would lead to a new Butterfly era of marketing-oriented/artistically-influenced names that reflect the sensibilities and sensitivities of the branding brilliance you see in other products of other companies. [OK, I do admit that Corona beer didn't work out too well.] Something similar are the Stiga shirts of the Swedish National Team. Here is a great company with great products and a below-zero sense of fashion in their (20 or 30 year old design) shirts that have the equivalent appeal of the anachronistic Wimbledon White. Thanks. ------------- Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber. |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 06/20/2020 at 11:35pm
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Donn, as much as Like a lot of your writings, I gotta disagree with you on Stiga… their conservative styling is wearable for years and the newer stuff always connects to the previous stuff. Stiga gear is pretty much a sure-fire timeless choice for jerseys and accessories. Fashion has too many whims.. I think Stiga really gets it. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: andzejgolot
Date Posted: 06/22/2020 at 7:33pm
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Yall should listen how japanese and chinese pronounced Tenergy Xdddddd Dignics and Lemuria was on Larc 5 years ago Propably Aibiss is old name too. Butterfly company has very big trouble. Social money for players No extra money from customers because a lot of us enjoyed Dynaryz anD Rhyzer , Omega V And Vii, Rakza , Bluestorm, Evolution, Rasanter V15, and Fastarc, so we will wait 2 months and they put Lemuria with old sponge and new topsheet because they need EJ money, they didnt care about customers until Covid..They lying about (2 years cost us to make project of Hadraw handle) they discountined blade because they change production costs and they rebrand blade and add different thickness and add different name just because. And they quality of blades looks worse and worse. Last good year of production was with R series...2017 |
Posted By: idk
Date Posted: 06/22/2020 at 9:18pm
Got proof of any of that?
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Posted By: andzejgolot
Date Posted: 06/23/2020 at 9:14am
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the larc 2015 http://www.atmmadeira.com/images/stories/pdf/arbitragem/informacoes/LARC_2015A.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.atmmadeira.com/images/stories/pdf/arbitragem/informacoes/LARC_2015A.pdf lemuria https://mobile.twitter.com/TTequipment/status/1074213073135710209" rel="nofollow - https://mobile.twitter.com/TTequipment/status/1074213073135710209 hadraw https://butterflyonline.com/wood-with-soul-hadraw-blades/" rel="nofollow - https://butterflyonline.com/wood-with-soul-hadraw-blades/ 2011 https://trademarks.justia.com/791/01/dignics-79101916.html" rel="nofollow - https://trademarks.justia.com/791/01/dignics-79101916.html |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 06/23/2020 at 11:42am
If you could list one rubber and say bty is in trouble because everyone likes new ESN rubber X, then bty would have a problem. |
Posted By: idk
Date Posted: 06/23/2020 at 11:52am
I am talking about your claims that Butterfly is in "big trouble", that they are making "no extra money", that they "lied about Hadraw", and that "quality has gotten worse since R series".
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Posted By: andzejgolot
Date Posted: 06/23/2020 at 12:17pm
| Si, Hurricane blue sponge from DHS is still number one. |
Posted By: idk
Date Posted: 06/23/2020 at 12:22pm
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Maybe in your opinion. Not sure how that means that Butterfly made fraudulent claims about products and are in financial distress. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/24/2020 at 1:30am
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I'm actually quite curious, because I'm looking for something better than the Hurricane 3 provincial orange sponge that I have for the backhand which doesn't cost a bomb like Dignics... the more spin it has the better....and it better have good short game control too! ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: achoomai
Date Posted: 06/25/2020 at 1:22am
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Anyone tried it yet ? I know it should be quality rubber but just wonder how far from H3 provincial. ------------- My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094 |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 06/25/2020 at 2:05pm
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ordered one for my TB ALC for fh Since my h3 neo comm sheet has been boosted already few times and used for a while I’m going to compare the two. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/25/2020 at 8:19pm
Let us know what you think! I'm really interested... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 06/26/2020 at 2:44pm
Might be awhile since NYC clubs are closed but I recently went to NJ since they are open by appt only so hopefully I’ll test it out soon. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 06/29/2020 at 1:38pm
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https://imgur.com/a/aXwNTZ2" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/a/aXwNTZ2 Some initial pictures ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: achoomai
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 12:08am
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My customer had already reviewed and compared this rubber with 007 pro. Sound interesting. ------------- My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094 |
Posted By: arteepr
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 7:49am
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I've tried it already on my belove blade Tibhar Fortino Pro . I usually use Dianchi D rubber as my main FH rubber and 007 Pro Selected on my spare racket and I just got a sheet of Loki Arthur Asia so I can compare Aibis to them. Weight : Aibis > Arthur Asia > 007 pro > Dianchi Speed : Dianchi = Arthur Asia > Aibis = 007 pro Spin : 007 pro > Dianchi = Arthur Asia > Aibis Blocking : Aibis > Dianchi = Arthur Asia > 007 pro Stability on rally from long distance : Aibis = Arthur Asia = 007 > Dianchi Close to the table : Dianchi > 007 pro = Arthur Asia > Aibis Compare to pro Chinese rubber in my opinion. This Aibis is only better than them in blocking and stability while counter loop rally but on fast flicking or strong spin stroke it is make me disappoint a bit compare to lower price rubber.
------------- Blade:Tibhar Fortino Pro ST 87 g BH:Xiom Vega X FH:Dianchi Special D provincial Table tennis lover<3 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76296" rel="nofollow - Feedback |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 06/30/2020 at 7:25pm
Sounds like a terrible rubber lol... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 7:52am
I had first try with robot yesterday. I'm comparing aibiss to fastarc g1 that i used the last two years, and t05/80 before. This is on fh, I have short pips bh. Blade is acoustic carbon outer. You are right, most people will not like aibiss because it is so slow. It plays just like bty says, spin of t80 with the speed of sriver. High arc and low speed makes it really safe over net and on table. But unless people buy wecs-gzlc blades i can't see it being popular with speed demons. Aibiss is terrible for flat hitting. Stupid easy to counter topspin close to the table and to receive short. All what you would expect. 2.1 weighs 5gm more than g1. I will buy 1.9 next time for the weight. Off one practice I like aibiss. Not quite ready to sell my unopened g1s yet. But my priority is landing many balls on the table with spin and placement. Playing faster only gets me beat by my own pace as often as it wins. Whereas making more opening loops and keeping more receives short is just free points. In a lot of ways Aibiss is like the rubber equivalent of a five-ply all wood blade. It is not made to play from far. You definitely give up some highlight reel potential. And there is no magic in the rubber to cover up some faults like t05 or d05 can do. But aibiss may help you to put the ball on the table one more time than the other guy.
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Posted By: Da Baobei
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 8:00am
| Anyone tried chopping with Aibiss? |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 8:29am
------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: timoboll89
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 8:55am
| i wonder why butterfly launched this rubber... |
Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 9:01am
In your described test above, are you sure you didn't mistakenly pick up your Hurricane 3 blue sponge racket instead? Thanks. ------------- Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber. |
Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 9:04am
sound like even commercial hurricane 3 neo would be better |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 10:01am
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The only blue sponge h3 i ever used was the nittaku pro turbo blue. Except for the weight and ridiculously hard sponge the two have nothing in common. NH3PTB was very catapulty, in an unoredictable way. Aibiss is not like that at all. Not having used commercial or any H3 neo I can't say if it would be better. I like aibiss and will probably switch to it. But as noted, I don't expect much company. For one thing I never go back from the table (or not on purpose anyway), and most people seem to love that.
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Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/01/2020 at 7:40pm
Hmm not sure about Nittaku versions. You should really give the DHS blue sponge provincial hurricane neo a try.Based on your description I think you will really like it. Very linear with huge spin.Short game control is super easy and good, and opening loops are very easy too...I use the 39 deg sponge which I think is the sweet spot for me....
------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: timoboll89
Date Posted: 07/02/2020 at 2:14am
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Nobody in europe will use this rubber, i think butterfly is focusing on the asian market. For europe we will have the dignics fx in november or in 2021
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Posted By: jonyer1980
Date Posted: 07/02/2020 at 2:44am
+1  .------------- Rosewood V FL Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/02/2020 at 3:19am
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Based on some feedback I've seen on Chinese forums it seems that they don't like it either haha... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/02/2020 at 8:14am
This makes sense. Whatever criticisms people say about Butterfly, being bad at marketing is not usually one of them. Aibiss may not be intended for the european market at all where a) nobody plays chinese rubber b) they can get you to pay €90 for dignics fx Perhaps Bty has noticed an uptick in Japanese players buying the Nittaku-branded DHS stuff. That would explain the pricing if they want to have an affordable substitute for chinese rubber in the Japanese market.
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Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 07/06/2020 at 11:28am
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Tried this rubber yesterday on TB ALC with brand new rozena on bh. Nothing special in short. It’s hard, a little bouncy but not as bouncy as rozena. Good for blocking, pushing, mid distance looping. I had trouble opening up against backspin but mainly due to not playing for a while and me being used to h3 neo on fh. I still think a slightly boosted h3 neo (I use commercial only) is a better performer especially against backspin but Aibiss isn’t a bad rubber. Aibiss feel a little more alive and faster than a non boosted h3 neo. It’s still linear and direct like h3 neo but doesn’t hold the ball in the top sheet like the tacky h3 neo. It’s heavier than h3 neo comm version as well. I’ll keep it, for the price to me it’s a good deal. Quality BTY rubber that will last a while and won’t need boosting. It will probably have a very linear decrease in performance over time. I think Aibiss + Rozena combo is a great value for anyone that likes dignics/Tenergy but doesn’t want to pay premium for those rubbers. Especially if you are u2000 this combo might be all you ever need on an ALC blade. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 6:10am
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i am interested in testing the aibiss because even D05 seems to be too bouncy for me. I was ready to return to old classics like Sriver but it’s definitely not spinny enough with plastic ball. Aibiss seems to make the point. Did somebody look at the weight before cutting ? ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 7:17am
Why not D09c... ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 7:24am
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why not... but heavy too
And I am not sure I need 80€ rubber for my backhand if I don’t need speed... ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 7:24am
I didn't weigh before, but aibiss in 2.1 weighs 4 or 5 gms more cut than the fastarc g1 2.0 i had on before. I have a sheet of aibiss 1.9 coming Saturday, can weigh that uncut.
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Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 7:26am
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5g more, cut or uncut ? Interested in weight of 1.9 , that’ the thickness I use in backhand. ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 9:29am
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4 or 5 more cut. I did not weigh the entire sheet. I saw 4 or 5 because i am using a food scale that only does whole gms. I have never used a 1.9 rubber. But having tried aibiss on many thousands of balls from a robot I see zero chance that i could ever bottom out the sponge. Honestly I probably could have gone to 1.7. But I don't really want the setup lighter than it was with g1, just the same.
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Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/09/2020 at 10:35pm
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Aibiss in 1.9 weighs 75 gms with the protection sheet on. Cut it raised the total weight of my setup by 1 gm compared to 2.0 fastarc g1. Happy with that.
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Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/10/2020 at 9:00am
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thank you for this news ! Wow it’s really heavy... more than a T05 2,1 whereas it’s 1.9 ... I don’t think I will try it. ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/10/2020 at 9:48am
I think most people (including some players at a much higher level than myself) overestimate the impact of having thicker rubber on their game once the rubber is above 45 degree hardness and is 1.7mm. But that is just me. I don't hit the ball that hard consistently which may be why I don't get it ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/11/2020 at 2:23pm
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Sorry I did not understand very well. You think it’s good to have thicker rubber ? Or bad ? ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/11/2020 at 4:46pm
I think it makes a difference only if your impact is really thick and your blade is really hard. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: tabl10s
Date Posted: 07/12/2020 at 8:05am
| I was a pure hitter on the BH and always used 2.5 extra hard. If my timing was off, I'd go down to 1.5 to re-establish form. |
Posted By: gromousse
Date Posted: 07/12/2020 at 9:06am
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i prefer soft blades. I am a topspinner. ------------- OSP Ultimate 2 / T05 / T05fx |
Posted By: vik2000
Date Posted: 07/18/2020 at 4:38pm
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This rubber is consistently getting really poor reviews among Japanese TT channels. Long story short, people say it's one generation behind all the modern tensor or hybrid (tensor + tacky topsheet) rubbers. This rubber basically feels like Sriver + some tacky topsheet. |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/18/2020 at 7:44pm
That's too bad. I really like aibiss. I guess if Bty discontinues it I'll have to try SpinArt.
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Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 07/18/2020 at 8:59pm
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I played with Aibiss last week. Its actually a really nice rubber and plays softer than its rated. The control and spin were good. My friend boosted it so ill have a hit with it tomorrow boosted. If you like H3 you might not like Aibiss. If you like rubbers like Stiga Genesis or similar hybrids this might be for you. Honestly besides the weight this rubber would be an ideal intermediate player rubber since it will get more balls on the table. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: fzolesz
Date Posted: 07/21/2020 at 2:18am
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The actual hardness compared to MXP? V15 felt soft for me MXP just right .... however both same 47,5 If its 50 does it feels softer during rallies ,really? ------------- OSP VIRTUOSO AC (L=159 mm)( Aramid/Carbon) FH: Tenergy 80 BH: Tenergy 80 Boosted with Falco long http://ospblades.com/" rel="nofollow - OSP Blades |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 07/21/2020 at 8:04am
50 on the Butterfly scale is like 60 or 61 on ESN. So aibiss feels softer than 60°. It is still harder than mx-p or V15. By a lot.
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Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 07/21/2020 at 8:25am
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its hard to give a comparison. To me it feels like the sponge is around something like MX-P 50 if you want to compare it to Tibhar. It must be the top sheet that makes it feel soft to me. ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 07/21/2020 at 9:20pm
What blade were you using ? -------------  Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 07/24/2020 at 6:53pm
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ZJK ALC ------------- OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 02/09/2023 at 1:24pm
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Less than 3 years after its release, Aibiss will be discontinued after 2023/2/21. https://www.butterfly.co.jp/news/product/20230118.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.butterfly.co.jp/news/product/20230118.html ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 02/09/2023 at 7:24pm
Just in time for the new Glayzer series, hmm
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