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process to develop a good FH flick |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 01/04/2020 at 8:32pm |
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So I've recently been working on one of my major weaknesses which is my FH flick. Was wondering, for those of you who have experience developing this technique, how did you go about learning it to a high level? What was the process like for you personally? And what were the really important tips/tricks you learnt along the way?
Right now I'm just trying with one of my practice partners who wants to practice his serves to the short FH corner. So pretty much he serves, I flick and we play out the point. Is that a good way to learn?
Any good video tutorials are also welcome. |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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vik2000
Super Member Joined: 06/29/2018 Location: Behind you Status: Offline Points: 264 |
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FH flick is an advanced technique and is a weakness for many shakehand players. Serving short to FH or center is a popular strategy and the serve can be very difficult to return if you don't know how to FH flick, especially if the serve is top or no spin. Honestly, the best way to learn is to really just multiball it and gain muscle memory. It simply isn’t a shot that you make frequently and if you don’t train the flick repetitively, you will never learn it.
Even after you learn how to do the shot, you'll struggle executing it in the game because you need to anticipate in advance that you need to do the FH flick.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Yeah definitely the hardest shot to learn in the game imo. The chiquita is so easy comparatively.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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Practice with a left hander, and ask him to serve short to the center and wide FH alternatively.
The most difficult part of the flip is getting there in time and having the right distance from the ball. Start with soft flipping and then gradually go fast.
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serr
Super Member Joined: 09/10/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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For a flip-kill use the back to front wrist motion it adds a lot of power.
Don't know about flipping spinny serves but pros never really seem to flip serves with forehand, it's either a bh flick or fh stop push.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Think it's more about attacking loose balls on the FH short area. My go to is the chop smash now but would love to have a more solid FH flick to punish these kind of balls. Agree that directly flipping spinny serves is really difficult!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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I like to think of the flick as a mini loop over the table. Too often I struggled thinking that the flick is about hitting through with an open paddle (v. short underspin serves) and that was my wrong mindset. If I now consider the flick as a loop where I do not have enough space to do the back swing because the table is in the way, I can still throw the paddle down for a mini wrist based backswing; then I contact the ball after the wrist spring effect and the following wrist snap, the rubber grabs the ball in the same angle that a normal loop would.
People struggling with the flick often know how to loop because the flick is an intermediate to advanced stroke. So by considering the flick from the perspective of another stroke they know well, they can connect to it with less frustrations, they don't start from scratch. Edited by stiltt - 01/05/2020 at 7:56pm |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Hmm interesting perspective, I'll definitely keep this in mind when I practice!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Some ideas which might help..
Get close the ball, step in so you have good control over your racket arm. Many players try to play the flick at distance and don't have the arm control and fine motor movement to execute the shot correctly. Like Stiltt says try and brush. Great advice/idea to think of a mini loop on this on. Don't try and hit the ball to hard to start get the mechanics right and movement first. It's a tricky shot btw and to add quality to the shot takes a fair while if it isn't nature. Cheers |
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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I had something else written as a Tip of the Week, but this seemed timely, so I wrote How to Develop a Nasty Forehand Flip in my blog today. It's also up as a Butterfly News Item. (I hope the moderators don't mind that I'm posting links here to my blog - but they are rather timely, and I haven't done it in a while. If they request, I'll delete the postings.)
-Larry Hodges
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Nice Writing Larry cracking
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I think power comes from extension and then flexion of the wrist, swinging the paddle parallel to the table prior to contact, or both. Spin comes from pronation or supination followed by pronation --- pivoting or wiping the paddle on a curved path similar to windshield wipers; hitting above the equator of the ball, or both. Practice these movements separately and then combine then. Then it's all about anticipation, footwork into the table, and timing through loads of practice. I suppose you can also just hit the ball too, but that's more risky and relies on good touch in adjusting the racket face, depending on the incoming spin and its intensity.
Edited by racquetsforsale - 01/06/2020 at 3:45pm |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Great video, never seen that before! I think Ma Long probably has the best FH flick in the world and it shows in his textbook technique. Some takeaways looking at the video. His elbow is usually quite close to the body during the start of the stroke. Sometimes I feel I probably start with too straight an arm. The other thing is that he seems to actively brush the ball - his flip ends up in the salute position similar to a loop - if it was just directly forward his end position would be quite different.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1020 |
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that's a fantastic video racquetsforsale, thanks. ma long does it so fluidly in a nonchalant way.
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Several from Li Ping playing practice points later in video: |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I see him hitting the ball at least 2 ways. For the parallel shot, he's kinda hit-spinning/carrying/lifting the ball with an open face and a relatively straight arm. For the diagonal shot, he snaps his forearm and "rolls over the ball."
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Always happy to share. I also came across a video of Calderano FH flipping absolute bullets in practice. I'll see if I can locate it.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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The parallel shot is more like a sideswipe like the one that Waldner loves to use. I use it all the time but it's much more effective if you can combine it with a true flick....people get used to it and just loop it hard.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I know the sideswipe you're talking about, but I don't think that's what ML is executing there in the video. Look at how long the stroke path is, starting well behind the table, and the weight transfer. It's a lot more aggressive than the sideswipe. Check out the Li Ping video. He hits the same aggressive shot several times.
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Both flicks are really strong. Li Pings seems a bit flatter where Ma Longs seems a deeper brushed ball. Might just be lo ooking for differences which aren't there mind... The prep for each player prior and position, speed of racket head and control of movement is really precise.
Great videos. Many thanks 👍👍
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Skyline
Premier Member Joined: 07/01/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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My teammate who is an expert at forehand flicking and trained several times in china with province team players told me the trick is to press with your index finger just before contact.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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yuri.saldon
Member Joined: 01/06/2017 Location: São Paulo Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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A tip that helped me a lot to develop fh flick was to contact the ball at lower side of the racket when it's against underspin do a down/up motion with a open angle.
Edited by yuri.saldon - 01/07/2020 at 8:27am |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Lots of good advice here. I will add that you should focus on adding a little spin and placement. Even if not very powerful, a flip is very effective when well placed. Power will come with practice. ILya
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Excellent point. Though ML is just drilling, both player's early recognition of the length and height of the incoming ball and their preparation quickness are impressive. Their execution is so fast, it's almost as though they're waiting for the ball. |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Thanks racketforsale. When we were away training recently picked up alot about preperation, precision and a fair bit about flicks. Kinda stuck straightaway. Getting it into the match at a quality level mind under pressure is another thing. Cheers |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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You're right, it's quite a bit more aggressive than the sideswipe, I think it's almost like a combination of the sideswipe and the flick.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Nice NL thanks for posting
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Actually NL's video is really interesting about not using much wrist at all. In fact I have the same feeling for the loop too. I no longer believe in using the wrist actively -> the spin really comes from the pronation/supination + the forearm snap anyway on both BH and FH. The wrist just needs to be in a comfortable neutral position to provide stability for the stroke. I find stuff like excessive dropping of the wrist unnatural and uncomfortable, and doesn't provide all that much benefits anyway.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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