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Short pips on BH: Players. |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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Posted: 10/12/2010 at 12:01am |
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So, there is:
Tang Peng Tan Rui Wu Wang Tao Can any of you add to this list of professional men, shakehand, table tennis players who use short pips on their backhand? Thanks in advance. |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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In U.S., there's Zhang Weijiang (rated 2618), a young professional coach in California.
Other world-class shakehand men with short pips:
-Hui Jun, Teng Yi (SP on FH, not backhand), Ding Song and Hou Yingchao (both chop with SP on BH). Also Ma Wenge as a Chinese Provincial team member... He later switched to inverted on his BH after he made the Chinese national team.
As you can see, only a few male players used SP on BH at the world level...
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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Thanks roundrobin. I knew there would only be a handful, but I also knew that there had to be more than the 3 I was familiar with. Again, thanks for adding to my list. |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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Anytime, Anton.
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I stopped playing with them, but I keep them on my clipper CR, and if i decide to play with them they are ready for me.
I sure miss using them though.
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yogi_bear
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johnny huang uses both sp on his fh and bh
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dragon kid
Premier Member Joined: 07/28/2007 Status: Offline Points: 2947 |
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Wang Tao is a superb player.. Love his no non sense approach.. He coaches in the super league nowadays. I think I saw him on the bench of Beijing team once, and now he is with the Army team.
He is also a General in the China's Army, I believe.. |
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Baal
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As a person who plays this style myself, it is tough against really good men players because you are giving up a whole lot of offense once you are forced away from the table. Also once opponents get used to the somewhat different timing they tend to really attack the SP BH drives, even when they originate from close in. Tan gets around this by being so quick that off the table he pretty much takes everything with his forehand, and Wang Tao and Tang Peng have awesome reflexes and essentially never get backed away from the table not matter what comes at them. At really high levels of the game it is much more effective for women. But I dont play at the highest level of the game, and SP work a lot better for me than inverted on the BH. Basically, down at my level, "playing like a girl" works really well. Also, even really good players have a bit of trouble getting used to the timing at first, so sometimes you can finish them off before they catch on, or at least scare the crap out of them, which can be satisfying when you are playing someone at a much higher level. Also, the ones I use can generate a whole lot more spin than inverted players expect.
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Slade
Super Member Joined: 08/15/2009 Location: Portland, OR Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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Jang Song Man (PRK), chopper
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Thaidog
Gold Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1661 |
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There is my coach and current junior national team coach - Yang Shigang who uses short pips (cpen) USATT 2621.
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Timo ALC FL
Tibhar Grip S MAx Tenergy 64 FX National 2.1mm He never boosts... of course he never had to... |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHbh5jtlWa8#t=04m32s
Guo Kai who plays in the Swedish leagues Edited by GeneralSpecific - 10/12/2010 at 8:40pm |
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tennisfreak
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what is Guo Kai set up
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GeneralSpecific
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I don't know I can't find it anywhere. On another note, my god did u see the point at 6:30? Guo Kai pulled out some MONSTER backhand snaps
Edited by GeneralSpecific - 10/12/2010 at 9:23pm |
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Anton Chigurh
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Really, really nice match. Thanks for posting. |
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bravefest
Super Member Joined: 10/05/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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I do, but I haven't made the jump to professional yet. I'll be sure to add my name once I do.
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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I know that OOAK keeps a huge list of all darkside players on their forum, long pips, short pips, anti, with videos and info on each player in separate threads, you should definitely look there.
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Anton Chigurh
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The following is a derailing of this thread, but since I started the thread I guess it's okay. I forgive myself.
Tonight was my first night back after a month and half hiatus due to total table tennis burnout. It was also my first night using short pips on my backhand, my first night trying Giant Dragon Tai Chi Hard on my forehand, and my first time using my XIOM V1 in about a year. All I can say to this setup is, "Where have you been all my life?!" It was beautiful. The short pips on the BH suit my game perfectly, allowing me to control the point until I could manage to end it with a forehand kill. I won't deny that I was a little rusty, but that makes me even more excited for the day soon to come when I get my game back up to par and fully tame the short pips. The Tai Chi Hard is, so far, a great rubber. Excellent combination of speed, spin, and control, with a throw right in the medium range. I'm surprised I haven't heard more people talk about this rubber. One of my training partners, who uses short pips on his forehand, had trouble keeping my loops on the table. Another training partner had no hope at all. Of course, with many hard, tacky rubbers there is a break in period in which the characteristics of the rubber change. I hope Tai Chi does not change much. Right out of the package it was good to go and did not let me down once. (That is, I could definitely see that all the mistakes I made were my own and not due to some funny or inconsistent quality of the rubber.) I can't ask for more. The XIOM V1 is exactly what the company pitches it as: An excellent close-to-the-table attacking blade. Great speed for as light at it is, and awesome control. Due to the carbon layer and the walnut outer layer, it has a very sharp feel to it, which I'm liking so far but which may not be for everyone. My transition from FH to BH was much better thanks to this fairly light setup (which was made even lighter by the 1.8mm SPs on one side). Now, before I sound like I'm full of myself, I will be the first to admit that I'm not terribly good. My excitement stems mainly from my impressions of this new setup. I played really well tonight and I must say that much of it had to do with a change in equipment. I miss my Acoustic to be sure, but this setup suits my game very well. I will also openly admit that I've decided to use SPs on my BH in order to cover up my poor backhand technique. And not surprisingly, my service return was way better and, most importantly, I kept so many more balls on the table. Yes, it's true: I'm hiding poor technique with equipment. But I don't care--I'm having fun! |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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Wait till you play with short pips for about a year, you'll feel so much better about it. The shots you can pull off from off the bounce are ridiculous sometimes. |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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I'm definitely excited to see how I progress once I "understand" them. I'm also interested to see how some slightly more "junky" short pips will play. Right now I'm using 802-40 because I heard they're closest to inverted and I figured it would be an easier transition. But I also ordered some TSP Spectol to try out once I think I have the hang of the 802-40. (I heard that Spectol can produce junkier balls, i.e., better short pip effect.) P.S. Beeray, you totally ignored my recent PM. |
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beeray1
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lol. I didn't mean to, I just must have clicked off when it alerted me and therefore- never read it. The ludeack is very nice. It's what I wanted- In between Clipper and HK.
Spectol is not as junky as you'd think. You just cant loop out of nowhere like you can with 802-40. I play with a guy who plays 802-40 and he tried my clipper/spectol and realized he HAD to play at the table. The only time spectol throws any reversal or anything is when blocking very heavy loops or if you are good at flat hitting through loops with it. I got to the point where I could flat hit almost the same but either produce knuckle balls or normal balls when I wanted. It makes altering your pushes easier too- loose and cut balls are very very easy to command with it. When you can control everything about it, then it becomes a very effective thing. I love watching Tang Peng.
It's a shame- i went away from them about when i thought i had mastered them. I might still go back- they are very natural for me now. But I like looping off the table with my BH lol. It's more consistent and less risky now. however much slower and less threatening pace wise. Edited by beeray1 - 10/13/2010 at 1:59am |
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Jonan
Premier Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Elsweyr Status: Offline Points: 2933 |
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From what I understand and have experienced, sponge has more to do with how junky pips will play than the specific pip itself sometimes, even short pips. If you want more dead blocks, a thinner sponge will have it bottom out easier and more often to get a lot less dwell time and therefore very little spin, I played with 802-40 in 2.2mm for a little while and I could loop off the table with them, and they were very close to inverted, but didn't offer as much of the benefits of short pips. A player at my club backhand or forehand loops (he twiddles) with long pips a few steps back from the table, with good speed and consistency to the corners because he has a thick sponge on the pips he uses.
Edited by Jonan - 10/13/2010 at 2:49pm |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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It is really a combination- You can't loop off the table really with Spectol even in 2.15mm. If you do, its going to be slow and lifeless because the pips offer almost nothing along with what the sponge can do from back there. While 802-40 you can still use decently.
If you block a heavy loop with 802-40, it will go back dead at best. Even dead ball blocking is difficult with that stuff (could be that I wasn't as good when I tried it) but spectol can throw underspin back on its own.
But i agree with what you're saying generally- if you want good pip effect, you need a thinner sponge. Thicker sponge is more about attacking.
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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I'm just now learning about pips, so forgive what are likely remedial questions/observations. I'm using 802-40 with a 1.8mm sponge. What I like about it is that I can return serves much easier, I can block more consistently, I keep the ball on the table more, and my "natural" backhand technique just seems to work much better with pips. I don't want to get too "junky" with pips--otherwise, why not just use anti or LPs? Like I may have mentioned previously, I play for fun and SPs seem to cover up some bad technique that I'm not interested in improving with the investment of lots of hard work. Sue me . I also don't want to get into a rubber that wins points for me... at least not outright. I'd rather "trick" someone into giving a weak return so I can kill it than just watch them miss balls due to their lack of familiarity with "tricky" rubber. So, since I basically want "super-forgiving" rubber that I can control well and hit with a lot (rather than loop with a lot), and that might induce some weak and easily attacked returns, then would you say that I'm better off sticking with 802-40? Or do you think Spectol is worth a try? |
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beeray1
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If you like what you have, stick to it. If you feel like it's helping you then it is a good option. Spectol like i said only throws reversal back under heavy heavy loops and you can also hit knuckle balls if you go completely flat through the ball and hit closer to the handle. With short pips- ideally and usually you want to hit much more towards the tip of the racket with a quick snap and no follow through (when flat hitting)
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Anton Chigurh
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Right on. Thanks much! |
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rawrtje
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Been watching Chen Qi matches all day and had this idea that he would've made a pretty sick short pips BH player. Anyone else think so?
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Anton Chigurh
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I can see that. Close to the table attacking and blocking, a lot of flat hitting as opposed to looping. Seems like SPs would work very well for him... but I'm sure there's a very good reason he doesn't use them. I don't have "faith" in many things, but I do have faith in the choices of the Chinese with regard to table tennis. |
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Jonan
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He has just recently, in the last few months, improved his backhand to step himself up again and keep himself competitive. If he had been using short pips though...would have been awesome, like a taller, more powerful Tan Ruiwu.
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Baal
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The video from the Swedish league is great, thanks! Always good to see examples. This guy is so quick he can take most of the balls with his forehand when he gets pushed off the table. Great footwork!!! The very first point on the video shows what can happen when you have to use the SP from distance. You can see that he is pretty much hosed. IN some later points this guy pulled off a few awesome SP BHs from off the table, so I am going to watch this video a few more times and study the technique some.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2811 |
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No problem, there's more videos of Guo Kai on youtube. Search his name and also search his team name (Falkenbergs BTK) |
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