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abdeen View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stop apologizing, shaking hands etc ?
    Posted: 11/18/2019 at 5:50am
Are these really necessary ? Shaking hands before and at the end of the match really effect your killer instincts.  Also is there a rule that makes it mandatory to shake hands before & after or on the streets ?  

As far as apologizing for lets this also takes away some of one's killer instincts. Also the Austrian Open incident (Hina & Lebasson) should be a lesson for all. If you keep apologizing and commenting & complimenting you will get exploited sometimes and you may also be prematurely wrong sometimes as Hina was, though her intentions were honorable

What the hell, I got the ball back legally even if hits the net or edge, that is not my "fault" should I apologize  ?   Talk to God ...........(s)he is the conspiring against you.
 
Or complain to ITTF asking for rule change to replay all nets & edges 


So shut the hell up an don't shake hands & play without comments, compliments, apologies etc and walk away without shaking hands ?

I heard Bjorn Borg & Appelgren used to be nasty when they were young

      



Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 5:53am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:43am
Wow.  Kiler instincts?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:51am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Wow.  Kiler instincts?



I have no idea what this means.  I googled for Kiler instincts and did not find any. And I did not see any spelling errors (kiler not killer) in my OP

But thanks for trolling & not addressing the issue and not trying to help as moderator by answering simples questions such as if it is (& why) mandatory to shake hands or just because everyone does it and there are lots of misunderstandings about such issues.

Such as the time when a player got upset at me  when i told him I don't warmup and asked him to warmup with someone else call me when he was ready to start & insisted that I MUST warmup with him for 2 minutes. 

Or the another player who insisted that I MUST hit with my longpips side during warmup (this is the reason I stopped warming up altogether). It is not my job to train my opponents in 1 minute as to how to play against my longpips and beat me while he would cross over to the other side of the street if he ran into a long pips player.    


Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 8:52am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:19am
Shaking hands is probably not mandatory, but just simple human decency. Not everyone possesses this.

"As far as apologizing for lets..." do you mean edges/nets? I don't recall experiencing anyone apologize for let serves.

Apollogeez for any tyepoze.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:

Shaking hands is probably not mandatory, but just simple human decency. Not everyone possesses this.

I don't think it is that simple.  

1, I may have a history with a given opponent

2.  This opponent may have cheated and / or been a bad sport thru out the match etc

3. I just don't feel like shaking hands for no apparent (not necessarily negative) reason



Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 9:27am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:27am
I agree that when playing you should focus on your game and reserve any comments. Apologies for edge/net balls are not necessary at all. But refusing to shake hands at the end of a match or to warm-up for two minutes with your opponent is unsportsmanlike and frankly kind of dick-ish if there are not real reasons behind it imo..  

But I guess some ppl want to play nasty (Appelgren & Borg reference) and if so they could do better and celebrate net/edge balls. I mean why not to get on your opponents nerves if it's win at all costs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:31am
Originally posted by hexiadetrix hexiadetrix wrote:

But refusing to shake hands at the end of a match with your opponent is unsportsmanlike

Don't see why. See my other post
 


Originally posted by hexiadetrix hexiadetrix wrote:

But refusing to warm-up for two minutes with your opponent is unsportsmanlike 

Again why ? It is not my job to train my opponent. But is my ethical obligation to try to beat them 11-0, 11-0, 11-0 to show them my respects and not a phony 2 minute warmup or rapid long-pips training sessions 

Even if I am not using any pips or anti but am using say a super-slow blade or two sided blade or even just using a 0.5mm or 1 mm smooth spinny rubber (which acts very very different) or even if I am just using MAX (2.5mm) smooth spinny rubber on one side & 2.2mm smooth spinny rubber of same type on other side, I would not want my opponent to calibrate to my unique racket and adjust BEFORE the match starts. Those few early points may win my first game & then a close match. I do not think this is unethical but many may feel otherwise. It is OK with me. My conscience is clear on this. My unique racket is my weapon & I am not going to let you adjust to it before the match. It is like sending my enemy information about which cities I am going to bomb even before I let my missiles launch  


Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 9:46am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:45am
Originally posted by abdeen abdeen wrote:

Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:

Shaking hands is probably not mandatory, but just simple human decency. Not everyone possesses this.


I don't think it is that simple.  

1, I may have a history with a given opponent

2.  This opponent may have cheated and / or been a bad sport thru out the match etc

3. I just don't feel like shaking hands for no apparent (not necessarily negative) reason



All of this can be filed under "making the decision to be decent human being". If you walk onto or leave the court with personal aggrevation/bad mojo toward the opponent then that is your jam. The majority of players don't walk in or leave with that mindset. It's a hobby, and meant to be fun.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:49am
Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:

[QUOTE=abdeen]  It's a hobby, and meant to be fun.

The definition of fun varies from player to player.

To me, anyone who says "I am just playing for fun & I don't mind losing" is the most hypocritical. At least hide by saying "I am just playing for exercise"

Also I don't think the "hobby" definition fits to a full-fledged athletic sport like TT. Most people who are not professional athletes probably play for exercise & make friends (enemies in my case.....though not by my own choice) 


Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 9:52am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:50am
I said it is my opinion that it is unsportsmanlike if there are not other real reasons behind it. I can understand you'd find difficult to shake hands with someone you felt had cheated but that didn't really come across in your opening mail.

As for warm-up, it's not about teaching your opponent to play against your weird rubbers but simply give him (and yourself) the chance to get balanced at the table and in the prevailing light conditions. If you have say normal pimps-in rubber forehand you can use this when you hit back-hand with your opponent.  I agree you are not required to allow him to warm-up by chopping or blocking with pimps or anti. There is nothing unethical about keeping your cards to your chest but in general there is a way to conduct one self and in my opinion it is definitely not to refuse the opponent 2 minutes of warm up.  But that's just my opinion. I think that is what you're asking for, yes?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 9:54am
Originally posted by hexiadetrix hexiadetrix wrote:

.  But that's just my opinion. I think that is what you're asking for, yes?

No. Iif I want your opinion I will give it to you.................... Just kidding
Saw it on a Marlon Brando's Godfather or Sopranos or some such poster I think.
But I always wanted to say this & you walked right into it


Edited by abdeen - 11/18/2019 at 9:57am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 10:33am
Top players (in all sports) apologize and shake hands and it doesn't hurt their killer instincts.
If this affects you then you need to work on your mental strength.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 10:35am
Originally posted by dajdosta dajdosta wrote:

Top players (in all sports) apologize and shake hands and it doesn't hurt their killer instincts.
If this affects you then you need to work on your mental strength.


Completely agree!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 10:41am
I may be mistaken but don’t most federation or league in pro sports give fines for unsportsmanlike conduct? Wouldn’t that make it against the rules not to shake hands? 

Honestly I say it is your prerogative do whatever you want, but it is also my right to see you as an indecent human being...Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 11:32am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:


Honestly I say it is your prerogative do whatever you want, but it is also my right to see you as an indecent human being...Wink

When you walk down the street, do you prejudge someone of a different race as racist just because they did not say HI to you ?

If you want to prejudge me on one minor encounter, then what can I say ?  So be it 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 11:33am
I'm not trolling. I am mocking the absurd contention that the OP is such a tough guy that somehow shaking hands with his opponent after the match or simply raising a hand to acknowledge net or edge so diminishes his "killer instincts" that he can't abide by it.  Seems like someone is mentally fragile.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I'm not trolling. I am mocking the absurd contention that the OP is such a tough guy that somehow shaking hands with his opponent after the match or simply raising a hand to acknowledge net or edge so diminishes his "killer instincts" that he can't abide by it.  Seems like someone is mentally fragile.

You are entitled to your own interpretation but each human may choose to act or react differently to certain situations.  It may not mean necessarily fragile but may be a method of handling your matches in a mentally tough way actually. That in itself does not make me a "tough guy"  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 11:42am
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

I may be mistaken but don’t most federation or league in pro sports give fines for unsportsmanlike conduct? Wouldn’t that make it against the rules not to shake hands? 

You are mistaken I think. First of all I was talking about TT only.  I have never heard of any league or ITTF enforcing this & that is why  I asked but BAAL ridiculed me.

If ITTF does not enforce it other affiliated associations rarely not follow ITTF

There maybe some obscure local league that added it to their bye laws after an "incident" 


Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:


Honestly I say it is your prerogative do whatever you want, but it is also my right to see you as an indecent human being...Wink

When you walk down the street, do you prejudge someone of a different race as racist just because they did not say HI to you ?

If you want to prejudge me on one minor encounter, then what can I say ?  So be it 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 12:00pm
Bye sjan.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 4:46pm
That's pretty douchebag-level behavior. It may be a competition, but sportsmanship and decorum go a long way. As others mentioned, even at the highest level of sport people do things like shake hands and impart couraging words like "good match" despite a win or loss. Table tennis is a pretty small community where most people tend to know one another. I personally wouldn't want to be in the company of someone who refused to shake hands/bump fists after a match at the club or a tournament. And I've never heard of anyone wanting to refuse a brief warm-up session before a match unless it's a friendly club match between friends who agree to start up a game under the condition that they both feel properly warmed up.

Edited by FinalFight - 11/18/2019 at 4:50pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:

Shaking hands is probably not mandatory, but just simple human decency. Not everyone possesses this.

"As far as apologizing for lets..." do you mean edges/nets? I don't recall experiencing anyone apologize for let serves.

Apollogeez for any tyepoze.

stop, you have 0 idea how it works in table tennis. You don't shake someone's end at the end of the match, you just clap it. 

You ask why?

Well because, some people have disgusting sweating hands and no one want to shake it. I personally know someone's hand smell worst than feces. A clap is suffice; that's a common courtesy in table tennis. I don't understand why so many ignorant americans doesn't use their brain and actually think it through before voicing their opinions on this matter. Anyone who actually plays table tennis knows this. 




Edited by hunkeelin - 11/18/2019 at 4:56pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

Some people have disgusting sweating hands and no one want to shake it.



This is pretty true!  There are some things you really don't want to touch more than you have to. 

However, it has nothing to do with (infamous troll) sjan's "killer instinct", the very concept of which is pretty hilarious considering the source of this thread.


Edited by Baal - 11/18/2019 at 4:57pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:

Shaking hands is probably not mandatory, but just simple human decency. Not everyone possesses this.

"As far as apologizing for lets..." do you mean edges/nets? I don't recall experiencing anyone apologize for let serves.

Apollogeez for any tyepoze.


stop, you have 0 idea how it works in table tennis. You don't shake someone's end at the end of the match, you just clap it. 

You ask why?

Well because, some people have disgusting sweating hands and no one want to shake it. I personally know someone's hand smell worst than feces. A clap is suffice; that's a common courtesy in table tennis. I don't understand why so many ignorant americans doesn't use their brain and actually think it through before voicing their opinions on this matter. Anyone who actually plays table tennis knows this. 




"I personally know someone's hand smell worst than feces" That is a lie. To paraphrase...stop, you have 0 idea how it works in human physiology. Anyway, thanks but feeding time is over.

Edited by Odie - 11/18/2019 at 5:38pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by abdeen abdeen wrote:

Are these really necessary ? Shaking hands before and at the end of the match really effect your killer instincts.  Also is there a rule that makes it mandatory to shake hands before & after or on the streets ?  

As far as apologizing for lets this also takes away some of one's killer instincts. Also the Austrian Open incident (Hina & Lebasson) should be a lesson for all. If you keep apologizing and commenting & complimenting you will get exploited sometimes and you may also be prematurely wrong sometimes as Hina was, though her intentions were honorable

What the hell, I got the ball back legally even if hits the net or edge, that is not my "fault" should I apologize  ?   Talk to God ...........(s)he is the conspiring against you.
 
Or complain to ITTF asking for rule change to replay all nets & edges 


So shut the hell up an don't shake hands & play without comments, compliments, apologies etc and walk away without shaking hands ?

I heard Bjorn Borg & Appelgren used to be nasty when they were young

      

I don't think this has anything to do with killer instincts.  As an amateur, you certainly have the right to shake hands or not, as you wish, although for professionals I think ITTF and most national organizations have conduct standards for their players.  Same thing goes for saying something or not have a net or edge, which I find about half of the players say nothing.  Those are all your choice, just as it is the choice of your opponent to apologize for nets or to offer to shake hands.  However, none of this has to do with killer instincts.

You mentioned Applegren, but he surely ranks below Bentsson and Persson in success (and, presumably, killer instinct), both of whom were exceptional sportsmen, always offering handshakes, even on a bad day.  And in modern times, just take a look at Timo Boll.

Be yourself and do what you want.  Just don't expect others to agree or to respect you for it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 6:47pm
"Sportsmanship"...google that :)


...TT should follow the antics in Soccer...now that would be a "hoot" LMAO


Edited by Charlie Brown - 11/18/2019 at 6:48pm
*sigh*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 8:26pm


Edited by blahness - 11/18/2019 at 8:27pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 10:15pm
' I personally know someone's hand smell worst than feces. ' - hunkeelin

never encountered once, definitely something new to me.

Of course could always be advised to wipe their hands dry before a handshake even a cursory one,

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 10:31pm
Bear in mind that this thread was started by sjan (Srinivas Janardhanan) a dude who has been trolling multiple TT forums since (at least) 1998.  

This notorious and delusional person has been banned from every existing TT English language forum many times, at least ten times here under various names.  

This "I am a jerk in more ways than previously revealed" thread seems to be a new theme for Srinivas but then again I dont go back as far as some people.  Maybe he has touched on this before.

He posts something like this, gets people riled up, and before long drops a few hints to let me know it's him.

Be glad he is not your coworker. 


Edited by Baal - 11/18/2019 at 10:39pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2019 at 11:49pm
I saw Rhonda R not shake hands and then get kicked in the head

We don't have to shake hands but a nicer World if we do
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2019 at 12:43am
One thing though....don't be too fast to judge a person who does not shake hands after a game.

There might be a good reason. No reason to infer bad intentions. 

On one occasion I was just finished practicing with a pretty good looking gal. I felt my hand was a little too sweaty and I did not want to give a bad impression. Even though I tried to wipe my hand before, I just waved to her and thanked her for playing. So you see, sometimes it might be prudent to not shake hands.


As for apologizing following a net or edge... pretty sure it does not threaten my killer instincts at all. There's little something called class.

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