Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - rejuvenating/shaving topsheets
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

rejuvenating/shaving topsheets

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: rejuvenating/shaving topsheets
    Posted: 06/25/2024 at 6:58am
I do not see why we could not apply the method to table tennis rubbers.


Of course we'd need smaller and more precise tools but in principle, shouldn't it work? I see no reason for the next layer of rubber to be any different in composition than the top. 

TT companies would shoot themselves in the foot developing such a tool, it's got to come from the outside world.

Imagine a Tenergy rubber lasting 4 years instead of 6 months Big smile


Edited by stiltt - 06/30/2024 at 9:23pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
TwiddleDee View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/27/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwiddleDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2024 at 11:36pm
Still have a half bottle left of the banned Spinmax. It's amazing how well it works on old sheets. Speaking of Tenergy, I pulled out my old Viscaria blade, that had a sheet of 64 on it. It played very well, and looked almost new. I recently noticed that it has the previous Butterfly logo on it, with the smaller left wing.
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2024 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by TwiddleDee TwiddleDee wrote:

Still have a half bottle left of the banned Spinmax. It's amazing how well it works on old sheets. Speaking of Tenergy, I pulled out my old Viscaria blade, that had a sheet of 64 on it. It played very well, and looked almost new. I recently noticed that it has the previous Butterfly logo on it, with the smaller left wing.


Do you know what chemicals were in the old Spinmax?

A sandpaper block will accomplish the same on tt rubber as the heat gun/scraper for tires. This will not help with rubber that has hardened or affect a dead sponge.
Back to Top
TwiddleDee View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/27/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwiddleDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2024 at 5:47pm
The label is pretty shot. It has a very strong odor. I found it for sale on happygreenstore.com
Back to Top
haggisv View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar
Dark Knight

Joined: 06/28/2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5127
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2024 at 4:33am
I believe the solvent is heptane, so that explains the strong smell.
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
Tenergy Alternatives | My TT Articles
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2024 at 2:27pm
heptane is commonly used as a solvent to remove adhesive, which would explain why its good on tt rubber, I expect a product like Goo Gone will give similar results
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3255
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2024 at 9:35am
®Xerox rubber rollers reviver will do pretty well. Unhealthy stuff, thought.

https://youtu.be/8z6ldup2AxU

___________
Be happy all.

Edited by igorponger - 06/29/2024 at 9:50am
Back to Top
king_pong View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/29/2010
Location: Minneapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 909
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 3:46am
Igor is right (though I can’t make out a lot from that videoLOL). This is the rejuvenator I got a while back.  Nasty stuff - smells of “Wintergreen” (like Birch oil) from the Methyl salicylate which is a VOC. Don’t know how it does on Butterfly products. I was using Mark V at the time. I think copy machine rollers may have more natural rubber in them than modern tensors and the like. 

You can find it on Amazon pretty easily —




Edited by king_pong - 06/30/2024 at 3:49am
Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1961
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Igor is right (though I can’t make out a lot from that videoLOL). This is the rejuvenator I got a while back.  Nasty stuff - smells of “Wintergreen” (like Birch oil) from the Methyl salicylate which is a VOC. Don’t know how it does on Butterfly products. I was using Mark V at the time. I think copy machine rollers may have more natural rubber in them than modern tensors and the like. 

You can find it on Amazon pretty easily —



I think is trichloroethylene based. Thast tye stuff I saw a worker used for cleaning the rubber wheels.

Maybe some chemical that peels a very thin layer of rubber?
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 6:25pm
I remember jt99sf many years ago was among the 1st people (if not THE 1st) to share that printer rollers rejuvenator was working as good if not better than the original spinmax. I tried some and sure enough, it gives incredible tack and that's maybe OK for rubbers that were tacky in the 1st place but not ideal for euro and japanese grippy rubbers that become tacky (we get a different rubber). Anyway, as people say here, that's nasty stuff a.k.a "cancer in a bottle", we should avoid it if we can or take extreme measures of precaution using it if we can't afford a better way. 

The idea to use a heat gun and a 160mm wide razor blade as thin as possible is very appealing to me: we get no chemicals involved and hopefully we'll end up with a uniform cleaning if the pressure is the same along the blade all the way from the handle to the top of the head in slow passes. Above all, we get the same kind of rubber as the original as a result.


Edited by stiltt - 06/30/2024 at 6:33pm
Back to Top
penholderxxx View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/19/2016
Location: Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 8:19pm

' The idea to use a heat gun and a 160mm wide razor blade as thin as possible is very appealing to me: we get no chemicals involved and hopefully we'll end up with a uniform cleaning if the pressure is the same along the blade all the way from the handle to the top of the head in slow passes. Above all, we get the same kind of rubber as the original as a result. ' - stiltt

would not be legal though.

Iloveplayingtabletennis
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:


' The idea to use a heat gun and a 160mm wide razor blade as thin as possible is very appealing to me: we get no chemicals involved and hopefully we'll end up with a uniform cleaning if the pressure is the same along the blade all the way from the handle to the top of the head in slow passes. Above all, we get the same kind of rubber as the original as a result. ' - stiltt

would not be legal though.

Boosters are illegal but they are heavily used from club intermediate all the way to the highest level in the world. Everybody knows it, companies produce them, famous resellers propose them and the rule is uninforced; that means the authorities send us the following message: "If we cannot detect your tinkering through the documented processes in place, you're fine." Now, how would the control desks detect that a rubber was 'shaved'?

Edited by stiltt - 06/30/2024 at 9:24pm
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 10:58pm
TT rubber is not a race car tire. Race car slicks are built to operate best at high temps well over 100 C. That's why a heat gun doesn't damage the tire.

A heat gun will melt tt rubber if you get it close enough. Heat guns can be bought for under $20, give it a try on an old rubber.

Edited by qpskfec - 06/30/2024 at 10:59pm
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2024 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

TT rubber is not a race car tire. Race car slicks are built to operate best at high temps well over 100 C. That's why a heat gun doesn't damage the tire.

A heat gun will melt tt rubber if you get it close enough. Heat guns can be bought for under $20, give it a try on an old rubber.
Well, the melting would be a problem wouldn't it? Let's not get close enough to melt them, just close enough so that long blade can take a thin coat of material off the rubber. 

The issue would be distributing the heat evenly across the width of the head so we do not get more material taken off in the middle and less on the sides for example. Also, we certainly want to avoid multiple vertical passes and end with several lawn like bands.

 
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2024 at 2:02am
option 1 - use a heat gun and by trial and error learn to perfectly heat and scrape a layer of rubber off evenly while not melting or damaging the rubber

option 2 - use sandpaper to sand off a layer of rubber, this will take less than 1 minute

Neither option fixes dead sponge or rubber that has hardened. Heating rubber too much will likely make it even harder.

Back to Top
jt99sf View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/29/2005
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 4964
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2024 at 2:20pm
It’s not worth the time and effort. 👎
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2024 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

It’s not worth the time and effort. 👎

It is true that as we age, we can afford brand-new rubbers more often. Also, when counting all what a table tennis life costs (membership, tournament fees, gas to drive to the club and back, US Open/Nationals travels...), the cost of rubbers becomes almost negligible.

Point taken!



Back to Top
king_pong View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/29/2010
Location: Minneapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 909
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2024 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Igor is right (though I can’t make out a lot from that videoLOL). This is the rejuvenator I got a while back.  Nasty stuff - smells of “Wintergreen” (like Birch oil) from the Methyl salicylate which is a VOC. Don’t know how it does on Butterfly products. I was using Mark V at the time. I think copy machine rollers may have more natural rubber in them than modern tensors and the like. 

You can find it on Amazon pretty easily —



I think is trichloroethylene based. Thast tye stuff I saw a worker used for cleaning the rubber wheels.

Maybe some chemical that peels a very thin layer of rubber?

It works by swelling and pushing the dirt/grime out of the pores of the rubber, then returning to it’s original shape 

408C restores the tackiness of platens and rollers, helps to remove dirt, ink, and sticky residues, and may also restore the flexibility of belts, conveyors, and seals.

It works by causing the rubber cells of belts, platens and rollers to swell, allowing dirt particles and contaminants to be wiped away easily. Once the product has completely evaporated, the rubber cells shrink back to normal size and the surface is refreshed and ready for service.”

Stiga Infinity VPS (Master): fh/bh - Nittaku Hammond CR max
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Everywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 3255
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2024 at 1:55am
THE END OF THE SeaMoon ERA.

   Dear Friends,
It looks like the continued era of oily liquid stuff to boost rubbers comes to the end.   A Russian rubber engineer has developed an innovative treatment methode generally known under the name of Dry Boosting.
What you need is a specific rolling sphere and hand musculature strong enough to upload a normal force of 6 kg onto the Sphere.
--------------------
Be happy all.

© Pending for a Patent.

Video by courtesy of Igor Nemo.
https://youtu.be/EHJtx-nKfeE

Edited by igorponger - 07/07/2024 at 2:03am
Back to Top
Johnny.d.p View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/22/2012
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 133
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny.d.p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2024 at 1:42am
Shaving race car tyres isn't really about restoring dead tyres and shaving off old surface layer rubber to expose sticky fresh rubber. Race teams scrape off debris that melt and fuse into the surface of the tyres while the car's out on track - they're cleaning the tyre. Once the tyres have gone through enough heat cycles (uses at operating temperature), the rubber effectively dies. No amount of shaving/reducing tread depth will bring back the speed and grip

The equivalent of shaving race tyres for table tennis I guess would be cleaning your rubbers regularly after playing. I put a drop of dish soap in a tiny bowl, add a bit of water, sprinkle it onto my rubbers and wipe with a sponge. A regularly cleaned TT rubber doesn't go through heat cycles and doesn't accumulate debris like tyre rubber pick up but degrades with friction from hit balls + oxidation and drying out. I'd be seriously impressed if someone could get enough heat into a rubber and perfectly scrape through a degraded layer to expose brand new topsheet without completely ruining the rubber. It's easier to buy and glue on another rubber

Edited by Johnny.d.p - 07/10/2024 at 3:02am
BTY Ovtcharov ALC ST 87g | Dignics 09C | Dignics 05
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.