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Westchester TTC 2019 July Open

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 1:10pm
Odd that she was not given a let.  According to the rules:

2.9.1 The rally shall be a let:
2.9.2.4 because the conditions of play are disturbed in a way which could affect the outcome of the rally.

You'd think a wet ball would fall under this.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by PingPongHolic10 PingPongHolic10 wrote:

[QUOTE=DreiZ]Anyone noticed how composed Juan Liu was against Gal A. The few matches I’ve seen her play were so calm and relaxed.

Would love to see her play against Kanak.
[/QUOTE


Especially at 19:25, after service return error because of a wet ball, and was not considered a let.  Think He did it on purpose?  he only wiped his one hand before that point, and that was not his normal routine...
does anyone know the actual explanation why the let was denied? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:11pm
On the video captioning said the let was given.  Scoreboard did not show this, but since she won next 2 points you can not tell if they really restarted at  9-8 (let given) or 9-9(let not given).  Since Gal was yellow carded, I would assume the let was given on a point he thought he had won.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

On the video captioning said the let was given.  Scoreboard did not show this, but since she won next 2 points you can not tell if they really restarted at  9-8 (let given) or 9-9(let not given).  Since Gal was yellow carded, I would assume the let was given on a point he thought he had won.  
Even though the video captioning said a let was given, it appears that it was not actually given.  When they played the next point after the controversy, the scoreboard showed 9-9 with Juan serving.  If a let was allowed, then Gal would be serving again at 8-9.  

Edit: Gal was frustrated by the situation regardless of whether or not he was given the point.


Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 08/01/2019 at 2:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

On the video captioning said the let was given.  Scoreboard did not show this, but since she won next 2 points you can not tell if they really restarted at  9-8 (let given) or 9-9(let not given).  Since Gal was yellow carded, I would assume the let was given on a point he thought he had won.  


Of course you can. The serve changed.

This is pretty much classic Alguetti behavior, all of them including the father, not really a surprise at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:29pm
The scoreboard was incorrect several times during the match so I was not sure whether to believe it or the caption.  

Were you at the match and saw what was called?

If the let was given, I kind of understand Gal's reaction.  If the let was not given then it seems like a poor reaction.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:33pm
but we still don't know why the let was not given
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by purpletiesto purpletiesto wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"The tournament had its first female champion — China's Juan Liu (rated 2617), who defeated Jiwei Xu (2701) (5,-7,7,7). "  direct quote from the tournament website - first means historic

I thought she was a US citizen? Why does it say China's? Shouldn't it be America's very own? 

It's fixed already, you can stop trolling.

July Open

A record 192 players, including six rated over 2600. All of Sunday's events were full. The total of prize money awarded at the Westchester Open since 2011 passed half a million dollars. The tournament had its first female champion — Juan Liu (rated 2617), who defeated Jiwei Xu (2701) (5,-7,7,7). 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

The scoreboard was incorrect several times during the match so I was not sure whether to believe it or the caption.  

Were you at the match and saw what was called?

If the let was given, I kind of understand Gal's reaction.  If the let was not given then it seems like a poor reaction.

If a let was given, Gal would be serving again (since he was serving the point that had the wet ball incident) ..... do you agree?  Juan served the next two points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

On the video captioning said the let was given.  Scoreboard did not show this, but since she won next 2 points you can not tell if they really restarted at  9-8 (let given) or 9-9(let not given).  Since Gal was yellow carded, I would assume the let was given on a point he thought he had won.  


Of course you can. The serve changed.

This is pretty much classic Alguetti behavior, all of them including the father, not really a surprise at this point.

Thanks.  Totally missed that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

The scoreboard was incorrect several times during the match so I was not sure whether to believe it or the caption.  

Were you at the match and saw what was called?

If the let was given, I kind of understand Gal's reaction.  If the let was not given then it seems like a poor reaction.

I think it was a bad reaction regardless of the let outcome  and is really beyond comprehension since it seems the let was not allowed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:02pm
Everyone looking dazed and confused... LJ throws the ball to Gal so he can serve at 8-9, he slaps it back to her, and she gets ready to serve... At that point the umpire seems to call out a score of 9-8 while the scoreboard shows 9-9, and Gal protests or argues or whatever. My guess is that LJ simply accepted the 9-9 and focused on winning the next 2 points to send the kid home to cry.

Edited by amateur - 08/01/2019 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Everyone looking dazed and confused... LJ throws the ball to Gal so he can serve at 8-9, he slaps it back to her, and she gets ready to serve... At that point the umpire seems to call out a score of 9-8 while the scoreboard shows 9-9, and Gal protests or argues or whatever. My guess is that LJ simply accepted the 9-9 and focused on winning the next 2 points to send the kid home to cry.

that is a good explanation for the slap back (still bad manners) but still doesn't explain why the let was denied.  I guess Liu didn't really wanted to argue since she was confident of taking care of him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Everyone looking dazed and confused... LJ throws the ball to Gal so he can serve at 8-9, he slaps it back to her, and she gets ready to serve... At that point the umpire seems to call out a score of 9-8 while the scoreboard shows 9-9, and Gal protests or argues or whatever. My guess is that LJ simply accepted the 9-9 and focused on winning the next 2 points to send the kid home to cry.

that is a good explanation for the slap back (still bad manners) but still doesn't explain why the let was denied.  I guess Liu didn't really wanted to argue since she was confident of taking care of him.

The video is edited and doesn't show the umpire's decision. But to me it seems like the umpire thought he had given a let and that the score was 9-8 (that's what I hear twice in the video). He must have forgotten that it was Gal's serve, although that was the root of the problem.

Do Westchester tournaments use someone to operate the scoreboard but not a scorekeeper/assistant referee near the table? And do they never play best of 7?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Everyone looking dazed and confused... LJ throws the ball to Gal so he can serve at 8-9, he slaps it back to her, and she gets ready to serve... At that point the umpire seems to call out a score of 9-8 while the scoreboard shows 9-9, and Gal protests or argues or whatever. My guess is that LJ simply accepted the 9-9 and focused on winning the next 2 points to send the kid home to cry.

that is a good explanation for the slap back (still bad manners) but still doesn't explain why the let was denied.  I guess Liu didn't really wanted to argue since she was confident of taking care of him.

The video is edited and doesn't show the umpire's decision. But to me it seems like the umpire thought he had given a let and that the score was 9-8 (that's what I hear twice in the video). He must have forgotten that it was Gal's serve, although that was the root of the problem.

Do Westchester tournaments use someone to operate the scoreboard but not a scorekeeper/assistant referee near the table? And do they never play best of 7?

There is someone that does the scoring usually in Open matches but is not an assistant ref. And only best out of 5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

...
Do Westchester tournaments use someone to operate the scoreboard but not a scorekeeper/assistant referee near the table? And do they never play best of 7?

There is someone that does the scoring usually in Open matches but is not an assistant ref. And only best out of 5.

Also, quite frequently large TV display takes its sweet time to catch up to the score entered on an iPad. Saw it quite a few times in person - not sure if that's what happened in this match though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"Anyone noticed how composed Juan Liu was against Gal A"- saw the watch and the let incident - don't know the guy (only saw his name a few times) - does he have a bad reputation for his temperment / etiquette ?
My first time seeing him play.  Glad she beat the snot out of the snot nose brat.  I do recall seeing his brother, Sharon Alguetti, having an incident as well so apparently it runs in the family.

If you've been in NJ/NY TT scene past 5-7 years you probably seen how they were raised. Nothing unusual about their behavior on court. Loud cheering, choing on nets/lets, erratic reactions is standard Alguetti behavior (this extends to the parents as well). I think small part of it is cultural and part "winning comes at all cost" attitude. 

Off court they seem really nice though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 4:00pm
I saw those brothers play before. On court, they are totally different. Shouting and arguing ..... most those emotions happen when they are down in the game.

But I agree off court, they are very nice person. 


Edited by mentortt - 08/01/2019 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:06pm
I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
no to the nets and edges and ball wet but he does celebrate opponents' unforced errors
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
Agreed. Cho'ing to pump yourself up is completely different than slapping the ball in the direction of your opponent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:31pm
There are countless incidents of Alguettis directly disrespecting opponents and having questionable integrity. Not the case for Harimoto. Try again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:38pm
Guys, not comparing the different deeds done by them but the on / off court reversals of behaviour
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purpletiesto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by purpletiesto purpletiesto wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"The tournament had its first female champion — China's Juan Liu (rated 2617), who defeated Jiwei Xu (2701) (5,-7,7,7). "  direct quote from the tournament website - first means historic

I thought she was a US citizen? Why does it say China's? Shouldn't it be America's very own? 

It's fixed already, you can stop trolling.

July Open

A record 192 players, including six rated over 2600. All of Sunday's events were full. The total of prize money awarded at the Westchester Open since 2011 passed half a million dollars. The tournament had its first female champion — Juan Liu (rated 2617), who defeated Jiwei Xu (2701) (5,-7,7,7). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
no to the nets and edges and ball wet but he does celebrate opponents' unforced errors
Please provide link to video if you're going to make that claim.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall him celebrating his opponent's missed serve.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
no to the nets and edges and ball wet but he does celebrate opponents' unforced errors
Please provide link to video if you're going to make that claim.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall him celebrating his opponent's missed serve.  
in order not to seem prejudiced against HT, name 3 famous opponents, and I will send you the video reference asked for (if found).  The response will be some time tomorrow unless I have time tonight.  BTW I didn't say missed serve, I said unforced errors, which includes errors not caused by a great shot by HT - if you insist on missed serve then I wouldn't bother to look
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
no to the nets and edges and ball wet but he does celebrate opponents' unforced errors
Please provide link to video if you're going to make that claim.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall him celebrating his opponent's missed serve.  
in order not to seem prejudiced against HT, name 3 famous opponents, and I will send you the video reference asked for (if found).  The response will be some time tomorrow unless I have time tonight.  BTW I didn't say missed serve, I said unforced errors, which includes errors not caused by a great shot by HT - if you insist on missed serve then I wouldn't bother to look

"unforced errors" is a problematic notion - you can't tell from the outside what caused an error and if the opponent has a reason to celebrate or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

I guess if you love HT's on/off court behaviour patterns, you have to love the brothers as well


Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.
no to the nets and edges and ball wet but he does celebrate opponents' unforced errors
Please provide link to video if you're going to make that claim.  I could be wrong, but I don't recall him celebrating his opponent's missed serve.  
in order not to seem prejudiced against HT, name 3 famous opponents, and I will send you the video reference asked for (if found).  The response will be some time tomorrow unless I have time tonight.  BTW I didn't say missed serve, I said unforced errors, which includes errors not caused by a great shot by HT - if you insist on missed serve then I wouldn't bother to look
I'm not particular on the opponent. I specifically mentioned missed serve because I can't think of anything else other than nets, edges, and missed serves as unforced. If his opponent misjudges the spin or lack of spin, then I don't consider that unforced. Other pros cho on those points as well such as a push that goes into the net.  Otherwise, you can simply say he cho'd on what you consider a not so great shot. The standard has to be pretty high if you're attempting to show that he's disrespecting his opponent. If he's doing garbage like what Gal did at Westchester, then I'll agree with you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 8:56pm
'Quite different cases. HT doesn't celebrate nets and edges, for one. And I don't think he makes the ball wet on purpose.'

pongfu, please see above by amateur saying what is not worth celebrating over - which I agree with-which is contrary to your thinking of what is worth celebrating -   then  like I said against that kind of reasoning I won't be doing any kind of looking - a waste of time
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