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Westchester TTC 2019 May Open

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    Posted: 05/27/2019 at 3:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2019 at 8:28pm
rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2019 at 9:17pm
Still waiting for Eugene vs Kanak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2019 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Still waiting for Eugene vs Kanak.
My money is on Eugene.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 9:26am
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Originally posted by Slowhand Slowhand wrote:

Still waiting for Eugene vs Kanak.
My money is on Eugene.
I think it would be close, but I think Kanak would win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 11:18am
Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 11:41am
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 
You're comparing a US local Westchester Open to an ITTF Platinum Tour China Open.  Eugene also lost to Jishan Liang at the Cary Cup.  He also lost to Kaden Xu at Westchester Open in January.  So he's not unbeatable in North America.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 11:54am
I bet you didn't watch his game onsite in three times. I am in Cary cup. He called out injury in the game vs Jishan after win 2-1. Jishan has no match to him. I saw they are practicing together before the game. I also watched some of yesterday's games onsite. He is crushing every opponent. I didn't watch Kaden's match in Jan. I think that might mean something. In general, I hope kanak can won. But based on what I have seen so far, he has no chance at al. 

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 
You're comparing a US local Westchester Open to an ITTF Platinum Tour China Open.  Eugene also lost to Jishan Liang at the Cary Cup.  He also lost to Kaden Xu at Westchester Open in January.  So he's not unbeatable in North America.


Edited by mentortt - 05/28/2019 at 11:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 
You're comparing a US local Westchester Open to an ITTF Platinum Tour China Open.  Eugene also lost to Jishan Liang at the Cary Cup.  He also lost to Kaden Xu at Westchester Open in January.  So he's not unbeatable in North America.
Just found this searching Kanak's ITTF matches:

2018 - ITTF Panam Championships, Santiago (CHI)
    JHA Kanak (USA) vs. WANG Eugene (CAN) Men's Singles   R16  4   0   JHA Kanak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 11:59am
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

I bet you didn't watch his game onsite in three times. I am in Cary cup. He called out injury in the game vs Jishan after win 2-1. Jishan has no match to him. I saw they are practicing together before the game. I also watched some of yesterday's games onsite. He is crushing every opponent. I didn't watch Kaden's match in Jan. I think that might mean something. In general, I hope kanak can won. But based on what I have seen so far, he has no chance at al. 

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 
You're comparing a US local Westchester Open to an ITTF Platinum Tour China Open.  Eugene also lost to Jishan Liang at the Cary Cup.  He also lost to Kaden Xu at Westchester Open in January.  So he's not unbeatable in North America.
You're sadly mistaken Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 
You're comparing a US local Westchester Open to an ITTF Platinum Tour China Open.  Eugene also lost to Jishan Liang at the Cary Cup.  He also lost to Kaden Xu at Westchester Open in January.  So he's not unbeatable in North America.
Just found this searching Kanak's ITTF matches:

2018 - ITTF Panam Championships, Santiago (CHI)
    JHA Kanak (USA) vs. WANG Eugene (CAN) Men's Singles   R16  4   0   JHA Kanak

Eugene defaulted. 
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 12:02pm
Funny. I checked this game. Eugene didn't play. The result is WO.

Please find something else.
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:


2018 - ITTF Panam Championships, Santiago (CHI)
    JHA Kanak (USA) vs. WANG Eugene (CAN) Men's Singles   R16  4   0   JHA Kanak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 


The fact that the Korean is playing the tournament says much more than his ITTF ranking which I have explained is not a good measure of playing strength for Asians and Europeans.   You have to dig deeper into other data. Let's see how far this Korean gets in the draw. The Korean has to be one of the top players in Korea to be in this event. When you think about it that way, that is closer to top 100 or top 50 strength on the old list.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/28/2019 at 12:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 12:08pm
Absolutely agree. 
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The fact that the Korean is playing the tournament says much more than his ITTF ranking which I have explained is not a good measure of playing strength for Asians and Europeans.   You have to dig deeper into other data. Let's see how far this Korean gets in the draw. The Korean has to be one of the top players in Korea to be in this event. When you think about it that way, that is closer to top 100 or top 50 strength on the old list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 12:23pm
Don't know if they will meet at the Pan Am Games.  They should meet at the North American Olympic Trials though I would hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Kanak just lost ITTF rank 264 korean today. He has a long way to go. Based on USATT record, Eugene and Kanak never meet each other in US. But from WTTC in the weekend, Eugene won everything so easy and no challenge at all. 


The fact that the Korean is playing the tournament says much more than his ITTF ranking which I have explained is not a good measure of playing strength for Asians and Europeans.   You have to dig deeper into other data. Let's see how far this Korean gets in the draw. The Korean has to be one of the top players in Korea to be in this event. When you think about it that way, that is closer to top 100 or top 50 strength on the old list.

I can't believe people are still using world rankings to decide whether something was an upset or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 2:07pm
Sorry if a bit off topic, but does anyone know if Kaden Xu is Olympic eligible?  He's been very impressive at the monthly Westchester Open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 2:22pm
There's no such thing as no chance in table tennis. Just few years ago malong lost to a 16 years old too. I guess everyone just forgot. All it takes is some luck and off days from Eugene and BAM! upset. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 4:06pm
Question related to this Westchester tournament: why the unrated person can join playoff in rating event? 

This person joined six events. He won 1600, 1750, 1900 and in playoff 2000, 2050, 2200..
Do he has international rating? Or the rule changed? 

I think in events, his rating listed as 1530. But official list N/A.

Update: this is not the only one. It seems all 0 rated person can join playoff without any problems.





Edited by mentortt - 05/28/2019 at 4:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

There's no such thing as no chance in table tennis. Just few years ago malong lost to a 16 years old too. I guess everyone just forgot. All it takes is some luck and off days from Eugene and BAM! upset. 
Last year, Harimoto beat Ma Long on June 10, 2018 at the Japan Open.  His birthday is June 27 so technically he was still 14 years old at the time.

But I don't think Kanak needs luck or an off day from Eugene in order to win.  If and when they do play, I want to see both of them at their best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Question related to this Westchester tournament: why the unrated person can join playoff in rating event? 

This person joined six events. He won 1600, 1750, 1900 and in playoff 2000, 2050, 2200..
Do he has international rating? Or the rule changed? 

I think in events, his rating listed as 1530. But official list N/A.


I was actually eliminated by this player in the elimination rounds of U1750

he came to the club with an entourage from Canada, so his Canadian rating was converted to USATT but there was obviously a problem with the algorithm cause he was severely underrated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 4:35pm
There are multiple other 0 rated persons in this tournament. They can join playoff without any problems. This is system issue. Is software allow that to happen? My understanding is that rating events not allow that, but if they join Open, or age-events, they can join playoff. It was obviously not the case.

Edited by mentortt - 05/28/2019 at 4:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by aerial aerial wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Question related to this Westchester tournament: why the unrated person can join playoff in rating event? 

This person joined six events. He won 1600, 1750, 1900 and in playoff 2000, 2050, 2200..
Do he has international rating? Or the rule changed? 

I think in events, his rating listed as 1530. But official list N/A.


I was actually eliminated by this player in the elimination rounds of U1750

he came to the club with an entourage from Canada, so his Canadian rating was converted to USATT but there was obviously a problem with the algorithm cause he was severely underrated!
I just look up his rating, it's under 1200 CAN, so convert to 1530 US is about right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 6:12pm
hmm.. so his CAN rating is underrated

so he was a professional sand bagger!

or rapidly developing junior player... depending on who you ask hahaWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by aerial aerial wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Question related to this Westchester tournament: why the unrated person can join playoff in rating event? 

This person joined six events. He won 1600, 1750, 1900 and in playoff 2000, 2050, 2200..
Do he has international rating? Or the rule changed? 

I think in events, his rating listed as 1530. But official list N/A.


I was actually eliminated by this player in the elimination rounds of U1750

he came to the club with an entourage from Canada, so his Canadian rating was converted to USATT but there was obviously a problem with the algorithm cause he was severely underrated!
I just look up his rating, it's under 1200 CAN, so convert to 1530 US is about right.


Usually you add 200 to 500 pts for the U2000 crowd in Canada, and subtract similar amounts from O2000 Canadians to get their USATT rating. Common wisdom is 2000 is about the same level for the two rating systems. But that's not always right. I know a player with 8xx Canadian and about 1750 USATT.. Lots of U1200 Canadians are underrated when converted to USATT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2019 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Question related to this Westchester tournament: why the unrated person can join playoff in rating event? 

This person joined six events. He won 1600, 1750, 1900 and in playoff 2000, 2050, 2200..
Do he has international rating? Or the rule changed? 

I think in events, his rating listed as 1530. But official list N/A.

Update: this is not the only one. It seems all 0 rated person can join playoff without any problems.




Westchester likes to allow unrated players to advance.  They use their estimated ratings from visual assessment which is permitted by USATT.  It is annoying when they get it wrong.  Unfortunately, nothing about the results of this practice has changed their minds.  They have been doing it for years now.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/28/2019 at 8:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2019 at 8:00am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

...
Westchester likes to allow unrated players to advance.  They use their estimated ratings from visual assessment which is permitted by USATT.  It is annoying when they get it wrong.  Unfortunately, nothing about the results of this practice has changed their minds.  They have been doing it for years now.

I suspect in this specific case they simply went with taking his Canadian rating and extrapolating it to USATT by whatever rule of thumb, skipping visual assessment.

Unless of course player in question was crafty enough to play dumb during assessment . Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2019 at 9:17am
Originally posted by aerial aerial wrote:

hmm.. so his CAN rating is underrated

so he was a professional sand bagger!

or rapidly developing junior player... depending on who you ask hahaWink
From recent wins and losses, it does not seem like he is under rated.
Loss:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353MACKENZIE Jude1489117231317Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353AWAD Samuel1601117220429Sig
3** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352EL MAROUK Wael122311329791Sig
4** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MONTMINY David1590113220458Sig
5** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352XU Tian Yi79811323028-334Sig
6** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MACKENZIE Jude1437113231305Sig
7** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352AWAD Samuel1384113253252Sig

Wins:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353WATTERS-KIM Noam117241320759Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353SAMOILA Steven117212281816-56Sig
3** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
4** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353LIU Ethan117245420718Sig
5** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
6** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Luv117228620886Sig
7** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353FOREST Alexis1172105886114Sig
8** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Kush1172102386149Sig


Edited by mhnh007 - 05/29/2019 at 9:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2019 at 9:33am
Thanks for list. Jude Mackenzie is also in this tournament. He won 2000 with 0 rated. It is consistent with Canada results. From 1600-2200 those six events, it was dominated by two Canada unrated players (they didn't win 2050 and 2200. but causing enough trouble for other players). Is it fair in general? In final rating after tournament Jude: 2132. Laurent: 1981

Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

From recent wins and losses, it does not seem like he is under rated.
Loss:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353MACKENZIE Jude1489117231317Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353AWAD Samuel1601117220429Sig
3** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352EL MAROUK Wael122311329791Sig
4** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MONTMINY David1590113220458Sig
5** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352XU Tian Yi79811323028-334Sig
6** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MACKENZIE Jude1437113231305Sig
7** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352AWAD Samuel1384113253252Sig

Wins:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353WATTERS-KIM Noam117241320759Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353SAMOILA Steven117212281816-56Sig
3** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
4** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353LIU Ethan117245420718Sig
5** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
6** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Luv117228620886Sig
7** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353FOREST Alexis1172105886114Sig
8** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Kush1172102386149Sig


Edited by mentortt - 05/29/2019 at 9:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2019 at 9:45am
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by aerial aerial wrote:

hmm.. so his CAN rating is underrated

so he was a professional sand bagger!

or rapidly developing junior player... depending on who you ask hahaWink
From recent wins and losses, it does not seem like he is NOT under rated. (Edit from under to NOT under rated Smile).  Worst loss to 798 rated player, best win to 1228 rated player.
Loss:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353MACKENZIE Jude1489117231317Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353AWAD Samuel1601117220429Sig
3** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352EL MAROUK Wael122311329791Sig
4** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MONTMINY David1590113220458Sig
5** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352XU Tian Yi79811323028-334Sig
6** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352MACKENZIE Jude1437113231305Sig
7** Circuit Québécois Sports Experts / Donic #5352AWAD Samuel1384113253252Sig

Wins:
1** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353WATTERS-KIM Noam117241320759Sig
2** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353SAMOILA Steven117212281816-56Sig
3** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
4** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353LIU Ethan117245420718Sig
5** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353Bourgeois Andy117245620716Sig
6** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Luv117228620886Sig
7** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353FOREST Alexis1172105886114Sig
8** Championnat junior du Québec 2019353GHOORBIN Kush1172102386149Sig
Ah!  I meant to edit previous post, but some how I quoted myself instead.  Oh well!!!


Edited by mhnh007 - 05/29/2019 at 9:46am
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