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What type of sponge to glue on to Dr. Evil |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Posted: 01/16/2023 at 1:46pm |
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I want to experiment with a sponge version of Dr. Evil, to use on my backhand. Would appreciate any suggestions for sponge type and thickness. I play with a Sardius blade with Moristo SP 1.8 on forehand, and presently using RITC 802-1, 1.8mm on backhand. Thanks
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4946 |
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Dr Evil does not play well with sponge. Plays dead and bad response, like a bad anti.
But plays great on a Hock when OX. Edited by jt99sf - 01/16/2023 at 1:56pm |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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Bear in mind you cannot use that in competitions that are strict with the ITTF rules.
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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I understand that. I saw a YouTube video of Dr. Evil with factory sponge, but have no clue as where to purchase it. It looks like it is on a medium hardness sponge. I normally play with it as OX on a 3 ply Hock. I think it might work well with a medium to soft sponge on my Sardius. Just curious.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Yes you can. You can put any sponge under any topsheet as long as the total thickness does not exceed 4mm. Wang Hao was famous for using a Sriver topsheet with a Bryce sponge on his backhand. Many choppers use custom sponges under their pips. All of this is completely legal as the ITTF only approves and regulates topsheets. Even manufacturers like Spinlord take advantage of this. For example, Waran and Waran 2 use identical topsheets on different sponges. Waran 2 doesn't even have a 2 on the rubber. They have the same topsheet, with the same logo, and the same ITTF stamp. Only their sponges differ.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Well then, I guess that I will have to figure out what type of sponge to attach it to.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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How are you trying to play with it? Offensively or defensively? Would you prefer a soft or hard sponge?
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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I use my 802-1 to block and counter-drive against topspin, and learned how to banana flip and brush loop against underspin. I play close to the table. I was thinking that Dr. Evil with sponge might improve those shots.
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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If you like the sponge on your 802-1, just remove the topsheet and use that sponge. Use a hot clothes iron on top of the topsheet to weaken and soften the bond between the topsheet and the sponge.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Hi, dear Legally speaking, you may not employ a separate sponge unless it approved by ITTF. The sponge should be marked with the "identity label". In accordance to the official ITTF Rule
From this Rule it follows you have to use a rubber sheet as it comes from factory envelope, without any modification. It is prohibited to disassemble the factory sandwich sheet anyway. Edited by igorponger - 01/17/2023 at 3:29pm |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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That's not true. You are allowed to use any sponge you want under the topsheet. The rule you are quoting about the sandwich rubber applies only to the topsheet being authorized by the ITTF. You can use a Kutchen sponge under any topsheet as long as the combination remains under 4mm and the surface of the topsheet remains even. Many professional players use custom sponges. For example there are MANY versions of DHS Hurricane 3 with different sponges but the LARC has only a single listing for Hurricane 3 on the LARC. I listed more examples earlier. There are zero regulations on custom sponges and we are all free to use any sponge we want under any topsheet we want.
Edited by GeneralSpecific - 01/17/2023 at 3:50pm |
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Also, here is a review of Dr. Evil with a 1.5mm sponge The 1.5mm version in the video can be bought here: Or, as I keep saying, you can use literally any other sponge under the ox topsheet as long as the total combined thickness is less than 4mm and it will be completely legal.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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This rule was enforced years ago. Outside assembly of sponge and topsheet was banned by the ITTF.
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Where and when? Custom sponges are sold on most stores. Multiple professionals are using custom sponges openly. Can you even be a professional chopper without a special combination of sponge and topsheet? Was Wang Hao ever banned for his custom sponge under his Sriver? Where was the rule enforced? Even more, where is the rule written? Even if you do provide a source for the rule, should the rule exist, it is unenforceable. It's even less enforceable than banning boosters since you can at least measure its thickness should a rubber and sponge exceed 4mm total.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
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HZW plays with TSP sponge under 802SP
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Yes, there are many players openly using custom sponges. Ma Te is using a TSP sponge under his Palio CK531A long pips. We're all allowed to do it and even if there was a rule, it is unenforceable.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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Thanks for all the feedback on this topic. I have decided to remove the sponge from my TSP Super Spin pips 21, and glue it to an ox sheet of 802-1. I will also glue some 37 degree sponge to a sheet of Dr. Evil, and try that out as well.
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Dear sir, Please take time to study the latest revision of the Rule 3.2.1.3. You seem to be misled by the older edition. The current Rule edition has as follows: -- "sandwich rubber" covering a racket must be currently authorized by ITTF. This is to say BOTH topsheet and sponge must be awarded with ITTF approval. In order to implement identification of the sponge a special "idendity marking" shall be present on the back side of each sponge sheet. Yours faithfully. Edited by igorponger - 01/19/2023 at 6:26pm |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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OK, will do.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4946 |
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I used to get my sponges from Cole, I don’t know if he still carries them.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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I can only find the 2022 ittf handbook. In that document, 3.2.2.1 talks about clothing. The 2022 handbook says nothing disallowing custom sponges anywhere. Is there a 2023 version out? I can't find a newer document
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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In fact, I have even gone out of my way to do a little more research. According to official ITTF document 2022-09 M4 RC MANUAL 07.09 which goes into greater detail about racket coverings, not only do they say nothing against the use of custom sponges, they even say it is the player's responsibility to make sure the sponge or blade under a red topsheet is not too dark. I have attached a snapshot image of this: I'll say it again. Not only is there no rule preventing us from using custom sponges, there is official text talking about the player's responsibility of not using too dark of a sponge under red topsheets. We are allowed to affix any sponge to any topsheet we want as long as it complies with the actual rules that actually exist.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
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I wonder if cole still has soft sponge to sell.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4946 |
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I liked the canon sponge.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6895 |
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Not as soft as they used to be.
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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1948 |
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35 deg?
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penholderxxx
Super Member Joined: 09/19/2016 Location: Asia Status: Offline Points: 451 |
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That's not true. You are allowed to use any sponge you want under the topsheet. The rule you are quoting about the sandwich rubber applies only to the topsheet being authorized by the ITTF. You can use a Kutchen sponge under any topsheet as long as the combination remains under 4mm and the surface of the topsheet remains even. Many professional players use custom sponges. For example there are MANY versions of DHS Hurricane 3 with different sponges but the LARC has only a single listing for Hurricane 3 on the LARC. I listed more examples earlier. There are zero regulations on custom sponges and we are all free to use any sponge we want under any topsheet we want. Edited by GeneralSpecific - 17/01/2023 at 3:50pm we may further refer to advisory in the ITTF published document under ' FAQ 7/21 ', 2.8 which puts the matter to rest.
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Iloveplayingtabletennis
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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If the regulation is on the top sheet only and I can use any sponge underneath, that would effectively mean that boosting is allowed. But it isn't. Am I missing anything?
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2892 |
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I think the logic used is that since the sponge is in contact with the topsheet any chemical applied to the sponge does change the topsheet also. Even though the major effect is on the sponge it is still altering the topsheet so it is not allowed. Mark
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GeneralSpecific
Platinum Member Joined: 03/01/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Thank you. This is an even better source than my own. Igor and Yogi seem pretty quiet now
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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