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    Posted: 07/31/2022 at 4:42am
Any ideas on what rubber to replace D09c, mine went dead just after 4 months which I find extremely disappointing (my last one got to 1 yr). I want something that performs extremely well in the service spin, and also has monster spin on loops with some degree of catapult. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seahorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 11:17am
I've just switched from 09C to Platinum DNA and I feel it plays better than 09C.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 1:29pm
Sounds like you want T05.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 4:34pm
Definitely V20 double extra a try. Very, very linear, but much more powerful than Fastarc G-1. Spin at the top end is probably not as good as 09c, but tremendous in counter rallies and hitting through opponents spin. Probably the highest control amongst high tension rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timoboll89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 5:01pm
Tibhar hybrid k3 is the best non butterfly hybrid on the market.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 5:32pm
I have been researching rubbers recently but find they keep putting the hybrid bench mark of spin and catapult benchmark on 09c.  

I looked at TTdaily recent review of Rakza Z and was bismally disappointed to see he rated it as poor.

I was considering MX-S the spinnier version but less catapulty version of MX-P... it's going to be I imagine a heavy non-tacky not anything like 09c but it might play similar to 05 I guess from the reviews and at half the price.

Finally, if you can give up the need for catapult and willing to step up to a fast carbon blade to do the speed part of the equation, there is a new world of much cheaper Chinese rubbers for you to try.

Catapult in itself should not be something that anyone needs.  Speed/spin ratios that suit are the goal.

From what I read from reviews 09c is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end.  = that sounds like a Chinese rubber on a carbon blade to me.

Try Hurricane 8 = $35 delivered from Aliexpress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seahorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by timoboll89 timoboll89 wrote:

Tibhar hybrid k3 is the best non butterfly hybrid on the market.


K3 is a good rubber but in my experience the sponge feels a fair bit softer than the 09C.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by seahorse seahorse wrote:

I've just switched from 09C to Platinum DNA and I feel it plays better than 09C.


How is the spin, I know D09c is an absolute spin monster (when new haha)...


Edited by blahness - 07/31/2022 at 7:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by timoboll89 timoboll89 wrote:

Tibhar hybrid k3 is the best non butterfly hybrid on the market.


What blade did you try it on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I have been researching rubbers recently but find they keep putting the hybrid bench mark of spin and catapult benchmark on 09c.  

I looked at TTdaily recent review of Rakza Z and was bismally disappointed to see he rated it as poor.

I was considering MX-S the spinnier version but less catapulty version of MX-P... it's going to be I imagine a heavy non-tacky not anything like 09c but it might play similar to 05 I guess from the reviews and at half the price.

Finally, if you can give up the need for catapult and willing to step up to a fast carbon blade to do the speed part of the equation, there is a new world of much cheaper Chinese rubbers for you to try.

Catapult in itself should not be something that anyone needs.  Speed/spin ratios that suit are the goal.

From what I read from reviews 09c is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end.  = that sounds like a Chinese rubber on a carbon blade to me.

Try Hurricane 8 = $35 delivered from Aliexpress.

09c has absolutely insane amounts of spin (only Hurricane rubbers have more spin imo...). And yes, it is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end (I hit my best winners with it). 

I used to use Chinese rubber quite a lot but it is a pain to use with slower blades too, I'm a bit tempted to go your way tbh, Chinese rubber on a fast blade, one of my friends had Hurricane 8 with Primorac carbon and I felt it was a good setup actually...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seahorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by timoboll89 timoboll89 wrote:

Tibhar hybrid k3 is the best non butterfly hybrid on the market.


What blade did you try it on?

Donic Dicon which is a limba outer 5 ply wood blade, off- good looping controllable blade. I was testing the K3 on the same blade as the 09C. Compared to the 09C the K3 felt a bit mushy and inconsistent. May not be a good paring of the blade and rubber. I think K3 would perform better on a stiffer blade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seahorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by seahorse seahorse wrote:

I've just switched from 09C to Platinum DNA and I feel it plays better than 09C.


How is the spin, I know D09c is an absolute spin monster (when new haha)...

I'd say that spin is definitely comparable. I have only tried DNA Platinum M on the same blade (Donic Dicon) as the 09C. Spin is similar, more speed in the 09C, but with a H or XH I think they would play very similar. I found the 09C too unforgiving and not enough dwell time on my backhand whereas the Platinum M is so consistent and generates great spin. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 8:45pm
Do others see 09c as losing spin quickly? Did the OP boost? I don't think of top end butterfly rubbers as losing spin/speed in a rapid fashion like ESN did (or do).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I have been researching rubbers recently but find they keep putting the hybrid bench mark of spin and catapult benchmark on 09c.  

I looked at TTdaily recent review of Rakza Z and was bismally disappointed to see he rated it as poor.

I was considering MX-S the spinnier version but less catapulty version of MX-P... it's going to be I imagine a heavy non-tacky not anything like 09c but it might play similar to 05 I guess from the reviews and at half the price.

Finally, if you can give up the need for catapult and willing to step up to a fast carbon blade to do the speed part of the equation, there is a new world of much cheaper Chinese rubbers for you to try.

Catapult in itself should not be something that anyone needs.  Speed/spin ratios that suit are the goal.

From what I read from reviews 09c is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end.  = that sounds like a Chinese rubber on a carbon blade to me.

Try Hurricane 8 = $35 delivered from Aliexpress.

09c has absolutely insane amounts of spin (only Hurricane rubbers have more spin imo...). And yes, it is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end (I hit my best winners with it). 

I used to use Chinese rubber quite a lot but it is a pain to use with slower blades too, I'm a bit tempted to go your way tbh, Chinese rubber on a fast blade, one of my friends had Hurricane 8 with Primorac carbon and I felt it was a good setup actually...

There is one element I should have added to the spin/speed ratio...

throw angle/trajectory

I for the life of me can't work out consistant heights and lengths when I use full power fh against counter loops.  

MXP catapult crazy long with a lower trajectory = small window 
Chinese rubbers seem the same.

That is something I would hope these hybrid rubbers have got right with a high throw angle similar to something like 05 would be magic for me. 

---

The worst thing about anything dwelly and/or tacky though is flat hitting flat through those higher balls.  Instead of just worrying about belting them, with a tacky rubber you got to worry about the spin they have put on them.  TO5 still is perfectly positioned between surface grip dwell without worrying about surface cleaning constantly too....

I know I'm going slightly off topic here, but the root of the equation is finding the perfect FH rubber.  For me at least haha.

Smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Do others see 09c as losing spin quickly? Did the OP boost? I don't think of top end butterfly rubbers as losing spin/speed in a rapid fashion like ESN did (or do).

I did not boost at all. Tbh I was shocked, because my previous D09c lasted well over a year. I am boosting it now to get some more usable life out of it. It's just like a brick now....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I have been researching rubbers recently but find they keep putting the hybrid bench mark of spin and catapult benchmark on 09c.  

I looked at TTdaily recent review of Rakza Z and was bismally disappointed to see he rated it as poor.

I was considering MX-S the spinnier version but less catapulty version of MX-P... it's going to be I imagine a heavy non-tacky not anything like 09c but it might play similar to 05 I guess from the reviews and at half the price.

Finally, if you can give up the need for catapult and willing to step up to a fast carbon blade to do the speed part of the equation, there is a new world of much cheaper Chinese rubbers for you to try.

Catapult in itself should not be something that anyone needs.  Speed/spin ratios that suit are the goal.

From what I read from reviews 09c is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end.  = that sounds like a Chinese rubber on a carbon blade to me.

Try Hurricane 8 = $35 delivered from Aliexpress.

09c has absolutely insane amounts of spin (only Hurricane rubbers have more spin imo...). And yes, it is slow at the slow end and fast at the fast end (I hit my best winners with it). 

I used to use Chinese rubber quite a lot but it is a pain to use with slower blades too, I'm a bit tempted to go your way tbh, Chinese rubber on a fast blade, one of my friends had Hurricane 8 with Primorac carbon and I felt it was a good setup actually...

There is one element I should have added to the spin/speed ratio...

throw angle/trajectory

I for the life of me can't work out consistant heights and lengths when I use full power fh against counter loops.  

MXP catapult crazy long with a lower trajectory = small window 
Chinese rubbers seem the same.

That is something I would hope these hybrid rubbers have got right with a high throw angle similar to something like 05 would be magic for me. 

---

The worst thing about anything dwelly and/or tacky though is flat hitting flat through those higher balls.  Instead of just worrying about belting them, with a tacky rubber you got to worry about the spin they have put on them.  TO5 still is perfectly positioned between surface grip dwell without worrying about surface cleaning constantly too....

I know I'm going slightly off topic here, but the root of the equation is finding the perfect FH rubber.  For me at least haha.

Smile




Yeah with the tacky/dwelly rubbers you can never flat hit against these opportunity balls, it's always a "smash touch" powerloop (to borrow the term from PechPong) for any higher balls. They're just too sensitive to incoming spin that if you don't "cancel" it out, the smashes are uncontrollable. It's a weakness of these rubbers for sure. I need tons of spin in general because it's the only factor that makes my shots land on the table (coz I powerloop a lot) and also makes my service much more deadly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 9:53am
Good suggestion. 

I am using Victas Triple Double Extra (TDE) and loving it. Spin-wise, it is similar to H3 (has the Chinese top sheet likely from the 709 brand famous for tackiness) but speed-wise to T05 that I was using and is very poor in control due to its bounciness. TDE excels in control. After the switch, my game, which is mostly short, has improved a lot. I have never used V20 DE and am wondering how TDE and V20 DE compare to each other in terms of spin, speed, and control.

Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Definitely V20 double extra a try. Very, very linear, but much more powerful than Fastarc G-1. Spin at the top end is probably not as good as 09c, but tremendous in counter rallies and hitting through opponents spin. Probably the highest control amongst high tension rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Love_my_dog Love_my_dog wrote:

Good suggestion. 

I am using Victas Triple Double Extra (TDE) and loving it. Spin-wise, it is similar to H3 (has the Chinese top sheet likely from the 709 brand famous for tackiness) but speed-wise to T05 that I was using and is very poor in control due to its bounciness. TDE excels in control. After the switch, my game, which is mostly short, has improved a lot. I have never used V20 DE and am wondering how TDE and V20 DE compare to each other in terms of spin, speed, and control.

Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

Definitely V20 double extra a try. Very, very linear, but much more powerful than Fastarc G-1. Spin at the top end is probably not as good as 09c, but tremendous in counter rallies and hitting through opponents spin. Probably the highest control amongst high tension rubbers.


Before V20 DE came out I was considering going with TDE. It's important to note that, despite the name, TDE is 5 degrees harder than than V20. TDE is gonna have much more spin because of the top sheet, but the speed is significantly slower. Here's a rough comparison from Takkyu-Navi, where both rubbers now have 21 reviews (Overall/Speed/Spin/Control).


The true selling point of V20 is that its control is unparalleled for a rubber than produces as much spin and speed as it does. Also, the feeling is really great despite the 52.5 degree sponge (it does not feel nearly that hard). I think for now it's my go-to rubber for the foreseeable future, but I'm also super tempted by Platinum XH and Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect.



Edited by liXiao - 08/01/2022 at 10:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timoboll89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 10:15am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by timoboll89 timoboll89 wrote:

Tibhar hybrid k3 is the best non butterfly hybrid on the market.


What blade did you try it on?

on viscaria and ovtcharov alc.
also, on viscaria i tried it on the backhand, it's a bit more difficult to use but blocks and openings are very dangerous for the opponent.
After receiving with a slow loop or flip i get a nice ball on the forehand


Edited by timoboll89 - 08/01/2022 at 10:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 10:51am
I'd also suggest Tibhar K3 as well as a strong contender for a replacement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antonlan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 11:18am
Have tried RakzaZ, RakzaZ extra hard and K3 as replacements for D09C. K3 is for sure the fastest but is bouncier overall and it has a rather short lifespan. I would say that (boosted) RZEH probably is the closest thing but it’s absurdly heavy. For me none of alternatives is as good. Sorry

Edited by Antonlan - 08/01/2022 at 11:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Love_my_dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 11:42am
So it seems V20, a non-tacky rubber, is more similar to T05 at the speed front but with much better control. Will try it definitely. Thanks for the input.
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:


Before V20 DE came out I was considering going with TDE. It's important to note that, despite the name, TDE is 5 degrees harder than than V20. TDE is gonna have much more spin because of the top sheet, but the speed is significantly slower. Here's a rough comparison from Takkyu-Navi, where both rubbers now have 21 reviews (Overall/Speed/Spin/Control).


The true selling point of V20 is that its control is unparalleled for a rubber than produces as much spin and speed as it does. Also, the feeling is really great despite the 52.5 degree sponge (it does not feel nearly that hard). I think for now it's my go-to rubber for the foreseeable future, but I'm also super tempted by Platinum XH and Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 1:14pm
I still wonder how a high end rubber from Butterfly have such opposite durability, first 1 year and the second one 4 months...
Do you purchase both from the same seller? Played in the same conditions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 1:20pm
This is also a completely random anecdote, but Yuto Muramatsu was using Dignics 09C, but then tested V20 DE and decided to switch to that. Something to consider...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I'd also suggest Tibhar K3 as well as a strong contender for a replacement. 

samee!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rinforzando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 7:02pm
Xiom Tau 2. Tacky top sheet (a bit less than TDE but more than other hybrid out there) 53-54 degree hardness. Tremendous spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zhuangcorp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2022 at 1:04am
In my opinion, Big Dipper is an excellent and also affordable alternative for D09c. It works as both are FH rubber and also a BH rubber. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2022 at 6:25am
Originally posted by Rinforzando Rinforzando wrote:

Xiom Tau 2. Tacky top sheet (a bit less than TDE but more than other hybrid out there) 53-54 degree hardness. Tremendous spin.

how is the speed? i ordered one from china but it is going to take a while to be delivered
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rinforzando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2022 at 6:48am
Good speed, but you need to engage a lot to get a very good speed (like chinese boosted rubbers).
Less bouncy than modern ESN Tensor (Bluestorm, Rasanter...) therefore less speed when doing slow and medium speed shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2022 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Rinforzando Rinforzando wrote:

Good speed, but you need to engage a lot to get a very good speed (like chinese boosted rubbers).
Less bouncy than modern ESN Tensor (Bluestorm, Rasanter...) therefore less speed when doing slow and medium speed shots.
i am considering using it on the bh side but am worried it's going to be like how i tried to use 37 degree hurricane on bhb(it was spiny but not fast because my bh was not strong enough to engage the sponge)Sleepy
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