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1000 underspin balls on the robot today

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Old-Man-Southpaw View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/28/2012 at 4:19pm
Someone was kind enough to show me how to hit backspin balls with my pips last night, and since my current thursday practice partner is AWOL, I setup the robot to do underspin balls to each corner so I could tune in my BH pips attack and work on my weak/spotty FH loop.  By this afternoon, I was getting tired from looping, and worked on my FH push with the tougher ones to the FH side.

1000 is a record for me.  I need to keep at it, though, and get it harder, faster, less predictable and more reliable.  I will use it to reduce my dependency on pushes, which will then make the pushes that I do more effective at setting up my FH. 

Hopefully I will find the guts to try it in games tonight, and if it works, just that it works will get me to use it more often and get better at it...


Edited by Old-Man-Southpaw - 06/28/2012 at 4:20pm
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 4:32pm
I heard from my coach that Deng Yaping serves 1000 times per day, every day.
So good to hear that you are also using the 1000 mark as a goal

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 5:43pm
that's hard work, my thoughts is that you would be better doing in segments, say 350 balls only going to your backhand but in 3-4 locations so you move slightly and get used to it, then the same thing forehand , then maybe a mixture later
 I'm mainly saying this partly because you use long pips, and when you attack with them the ball will come back to you differently but you are learning from muscle memory that the ball returned will go wide to you forehand (if you get me lol) anyhow I think its better doing a shorter segment rather than a drill that goes on too long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 6:06pm
Good point.  I didn't hit 1000 in a row.  My machine doesn't recycle, so I play 100 balls, then pick up and reload, and do another 100, etc, and I was doing about 300 per session, then taking a break or doing other things.  

Initially, I sent all the balls at 1 speed to 1 location, then when I could do the shot, I widened the location a bit and varied the speed a bit.  Then went to wide FH and wide BH alternating, and then just to random location from FH to BH with varied speed.  After I was getting tired from looping, I reduced the number of FH balls by reducing the number of FH locations being hit to in the random location range, thus getting a higher percentage of BH balls.  I ended up at 1300 balls for the day, and will go see how well I learned it when I play at the club tonight.

And knowing both need a lot more practice, I can say I'll give it another go tomorrow, and keep doing it till it works well.  I'm tired of sending weak balls to heavy hitters.  Gotta fight fire with fire, LOL.
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 6:56pm
Sounds like good training. My opinion when using pips is you should ALWAYS be looking to attack underspin balls. You just have to focus on placement as a player who is good against pips will counter hit weak topspin like its 50ft in the air....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 7:46pm
dont overdo it, you might get tennis elbow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 8:05pm
Attacking backspin with pips is hardly the same amount of effort as looping with inverted against the same ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 8:11pm
yes but with the number of repetitions he is having despite the breaks in between, if he continues that daily he will have tennis elbow in no time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 8:16pm
this is also assuming that he doesnt just do one stroke but also he practices other strokes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote decoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 10:19pm
yup repetitive  motion  over time will mess your joints up.. i already messed up my left shoulder from the army which made me leave as a personal choice after my health. yet they wanted to keep me.  <--- best shot from the newer members of the unit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/28/2012 at 11:23pm
The shots that make me hurt are the ones with very jerky motions, so if at all possible, I try to do things with a smooth, fluid motion, and if something hurts, I try to find another way.

That's why I'm not a full time attacker.  I can't last attacking all the time, but pushing and chopping and doing flip shots I can last much longer, and I enjoy doing it.  A smash or drive here and there to win a point is fine, too..

Thanks for the concern, warnings and suggestions.  I'll try to be careful.

PS: I played 2 matches in a row against someone I've been losing to all the time lately, and won both matches.  I used the BH pips hit shot a bunch of times, and screwed it up many of those times, so although its not perfected by any means, it did help me win because every time I smacked it hard to somewhere inconvenient, it didn't get returned onto the table.


Edited by Old-Man-Southpaw - 06/28/2012 at 11:28pm
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 3:55am
How many people here warm up and stretch before practice?

I warm up for about 10 ~ 20 mins atleast.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote decoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 7:49am
i try to warm up if time allows.... most of the time its a 30 min run ot the place then do some stretches. otherwise i cant play properly... and im only 23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 8:49am
30 mins run/jog is pretty good warm up.
Stretching is important too.

At the 3 clubs that I have been to the past few months, I have not witness any club players warming up.
Only people warming up and stretching I saw before are semi pro or professional athletes.

Warming up and stretching is important to prevent injuries, like tennis elbow that is mentioned above
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 9:22am
Only stretches for my legs, here, but for warm up, I just take it easy practicing for 15 min or so if things aren't crowded/people waiting.  If its a crowded place that doesn't allow practice and drilling, I try to avoid going there.

What kind of stretches or exercises would you do for your arm/shoulder?  

I've been starting to try to loop attack, recently, and that hurts compared to just hanging back and chopping or blocking, LOL.  But I need the ability to attack if the opportunity exists and that's the best odds to win the point.  The sad thing is though, that it seems if I do loop it to attack, it gets counterattacked or blocked, and the return is much worse than if I'd sent a nasty low chop or sidespin block (something else I'm learning to do).
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cho! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 1:21pm
Man I need a robot that can do underspin. I've been using the iPong topspin. It's nice for training fundamentals strokes technique, but I played a chopper at the club yesterday and lost my games with no more than 3 points from myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Cho! Cho! wrote:

Man I need a robot that can do underspin. I've been using the iPong topspin. It's nice for training fundamentals strokes technique, but I played a chopper at the club yesterday and lost my games with no more than 3 points from myself.

Even though there aren't many choppers, keep in mind that anyone can chop with inverted, too, and those chops can be particularly wicked with spin...
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 5:36pm
Well, I limited my robot practice to 300 balls today, and slowed it down so that I had plenty of time to think/adjust between balls, and only sent them to my BH side, essentially trying to replicate a push or chop.  By the last 100 I think I was getting reasonably accurate with it, able to send to the middle or in the direction of either corner.  I wasn't able to do that reliably at super high speed, but I think if I were to hit the ball to the opposite side from where their last hit came from, it might work fairly well, even if I don't have enough speed at first.  I was hitting at about 80%, which isn't good compared to pushing or chopping, but if I don't overuse it and the balls don't come back, 4 out of 5 is not bad, IMO.

So I'll try it again tonight at a different club...
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

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FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loop40mm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 6:43pm

I know I don’t warm up enough.

 

I saw the Chiropractor last Saturday.  I was told stretching the muscles out will help my flexibility and thereby help my game.  My Chiropractor stretched me out like I have seen the NBA athletes being stretched out by the trainers.  It did make a big difference during game time that afternoon.  Amazingly I played well.

 
I need to remind myself to stretch more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote decoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 9:33pm
i tend to play much better after the 30 min run.. really gets the blood pumping, feeding your muscle with oxygen.. and your breain... then further stretching gets you nimble
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

Attacking backspin with pips is hardly the same amount of effort as looping with inverted against the same ball.


What makes you think that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/29/2012 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

yes but with the number of repetitions he is having despite the breaks in between, if he continues that daily he will have tennis elbow in no time


I also would suggest this is asking for trouble.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2012 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Cho! Cho! wrote:

Man I need a robot that can do underspin. I've been using the iPong topspin. It's nice for training fundamentals strokes technique, but I played a chopper at the club yesterday and lost my games with no more than 3 points from myself.
 
 
Wasn't Lee, Soo Yeon, was it? hehe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2012 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by decoi decoi wrote:

i tend to play much better after the 30 min run.. really gets the blood pumping, feeding your muscle with oxygen.. and your breain... then further stretching gets you nimble

I couldn't run for 30 min if my life depended on it, much less play afterwards.

Nonetheless, something that's become quite clear lately is that by the 3rd match of the day or night, if they are tough matches, I'm physically exhausted, and that's a lot of why I don't move, and allow balls to wiz by on the corners once I'm to the point where I can't get myself to move.  That's not good if I'm going to be playing any more tournaments.

But this brings to mind something a Dr. that I play sometimes said, which was "You can't play TT to get fit, you have to be fit to play TT".  He went on to suggest 30 or 45 min a day of any kind of heart pumping cardio exercise that doesn't cause me pain, for example biking, be it on an exercise bike or out on a trail or road.

Anyway, I think what I can do is to do some exercise before going to play, and then some more when I get home.  For example I could do some warmups and then ride for 20 min before going to play, and then another 20 min ride after coming home.  I don't know if the number of minutes on each side that I've guessed are reasonable or not, but basically the concept is to add some exercise to the day before and after, and then when and if the day ever comes that I feel I'm playing well enough to try another tournament, I just won't exercise that day, and hopefully that will leave me more able to last a couple matches longer before getting exhausted.  Another thing I've been doing is limiting people to a few smashes per point, and instead of hitting many times, I chop right in the middle of the rally, sometimes with pips, sometimes with inverted.  I found I don't wear out as fast, and I win more points that way because some people are better at returning any kind of hit than they are at returning alternating hits and chops.

I also think using the robot before going to play helps me a lot, because it helps me remember how I want to hit the shots.  I think it makes sense to do 300 or 400 balls before going to play, which allows for some FH drive, FH chop, BH smack and BH chop.   The point I'd like to make is that 400 balls is about 10 min of playing if the balls are at a relaxed pace.   But yes, doing 1300 and then going and paying did cause soreness in my legs and elbow, so I'll take it easier on my body, henceforth.
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

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FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2012 at 3:08pm
Some places I train have stationary bikes and elliptical machines in the lounge area.  I guess it's for cardio training for the hardcore TT players that want to warm up before or cooling down after matches.  

I find that it is better to engage in cardio training on TT off days.  So those days you don't play/train TT to go jogging, biking, or swimming for 20 - 30 min.  Depending on your fitness level will determine how hard you will be able to cardio train.  The key is to take it slow to prevent injury, and slowly build up endurance.

Also was we get older it might be wise to do full set of deep stretches shortly after TT training to prevent soreness.  It might take 15 - 30 minutes, but it is worth it in my opinion.  Start with either hands or feet and work your way through your body in a systematic fashion.  Stretching all your major muscle groups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2012 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

1000 is a record for me.  I need to keep at it, though, and get it harder, faster, less predictable and more reliable.  I will use it to reduce my dependency on pushes, which will then make the pushes that I do more effective at setting up my FH. 
 
I like your work ethic.  If you tend to get stuck in pushing rallies in a match, I would suggest the practice you're doing but include transitions rather than just continually attacking underspin balls with your pips.  Example: if the robot is feeding underspin shots, push back 3, attack 1, push back 2, attack 1, push back 1, attack 1, repeat (3-2-1).  So you're learning how to get out of those pushing rallies when you do get stuck in one.  Good luck.


Edited by BeaverMD - 06/30/2012 at 3:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2012 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

1000 is a record for me.  I need to keep at it, though, and get it harder, faster, less predictable and more reliable.  I will use it to reduce my dependency on pushes, which will then make the pushes that I do more effective at setting up my FH. 
 
I like your work ethic.  If you tend to get stuck in pushing rallies in a match, I would suggest the practice you're doing but include transitions rather than just continually attacking underspin balls with your pips.  Example: if the robot is feeding underspin shots, push back 3, attack 1, push back 2, attack 1, push back 1, attack 1, repeat (3-2-1).  So you're learning how to get out of those pushing rallies when you do get stuck in one.  Good luck.


Yep,
Besides different stroke, also aim for different placements/location.
Tape a small piece of paper on the table for a target or something like that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2012 at 8:27am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:


I like your work ethic.  If you tend to get stuck in pushing rallies in a match, I would suggest the practice you're doing but include transitions rather than just continually attacking underspin balls with your pips.  Example: if the robot is feeding underspin shots, push back 3, attack 1, push back 2, attack 1, push back 1, attack 1, repeat (3-2-1).  So you're learning how to get out of those pushing rallies when you do get stuck in one.  Good luck.

Yes, tis true.  I actually don't mind pushing matches, since I usually win them, but as I play better players, they are better at attacking their way out of it, so I need better strategy and weapons to counter them.  I think I need to come up with an approx height or angle to top of net, above which I will typically try to attack, and below which I will default to a push, chop or loop, instead.  But yes, mixing it up is required, or I become predictable, and predictable is not good if you are trying to win!
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

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FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GoldenDragoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2012 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

Attacking backspin with pips is hardly the same amount of effort as looping with inverted against the same ball.
What makes you think that?


Because with pips you don't require anywhere near as much energy in you stroke to lift the ball over the net for a good.attacking stroke. The pips allow you to worry about the spin far less than inverted so you can focus on placement and speed of your return. As a bonus the opponents backspin becomes your topspin.



As for warming up I "try" to warm up before playing but most of the time the player at the.other end is a complete idiot and confuses warming up with smashing practice. I still make a point to strech a muscle or two between "points" and restrain myself from real hitting until I have some decent heat in my muscles...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2012 at 9:12am
Well, last night I did do 300 or 400 balls, but just did underspin to BH (practiced pushing/chopping/attacking) because changing and readjusting the robot for topspin is a pita because I'd also have to change it back.  I didn't have time before do the biking, but I at least made sure to do stretches before playing.  

When at the club, I did modify my BH attack methodology to only try to use it every 3rd or 4th BH shot, and to try to hit it someplace inconvenient.  When it was hard and landed, it rarely came back.  I practiced quite a while with a 2000 or 2100 player, and that was very helpful.  Then we played a match, and I won game and a couple more were close, so that was a significant improvement since my last 3-0 loss to him.  I played a 2nd match against a player at my level, but it was also a tough one, and by the 5th game I was beat.  I won in a squeaker, and again, the BH shot helped.

FH Looping or smashing takes SOOOOO much more energy and effort as compared most other shots.  I would like to get a good hard loop working, one that isn't easily blocked or hit back well, but will need to use it sparingly to conserve energy.  The BH push, loop or smack are all shots that consume little energy by comparison.  The chop takes a lot less out of me, too, because it is slow, fluid and graceful, not whipping fast.

PS: I think I'll try to continue the 300 or 400 robot balls per day before going to play (I play every day at least once for 2 hrs or so).  It seems to be helping.


Edited by Old-Man-Southpaw - 07/01/2012 at 10:34am
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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