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2 different types of loops |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 07/13/2012 at 7:51am |
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I wonder if anyone personally uses 2 different kinds of loops,
1 is a short and compact FH where you keep the swing short and simple, arm never crossing the body...used when you have to attack continuously and do not have time for backswing 1 is the power FH, where you use a big backswing and go for the kill, with your paddle way to the side after the stroke, like WLQ's FH loop-kills. For me there's quite a distinct difference between the 2 types of loops mechanisms, and it seems that both are good in their own way... Does anyone train both types? How would you know when to use which?
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Thomasson
Gold Member Joined: 03/30/2010 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1008 |
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I think everyone trains both, you use the first one on a shorter/lower ball and the second one on a easier ball.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I don't know about other people, but I certainly am not good enough to take that kind of full WLQ swing every time I spin the ball! Partly means I should probably train it more, maybe I would be more in balance afterword.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Neither can most ppl... Even most professionals don't do it(most of them do the short, compact loop nowadays), that's why WLQ is so special....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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for what's worth, I am asking myself many of the same questions. As I am usually the first to open loop, I often find myself looping against blockers using the short swing on forehand and punch with backhand; and I am often late playing the first loop after the opening loop, against good active blockers. So I wonder if this is symptom that I am too close to the table, and maybe I should step a bit backwards immediately after the first opening loop, and play the long swing on forehand, and loop on bh. I seem to have found confirmation of this watching the latest match Zhang vs Ma Long (olympics warmup): there Zhang consistently jumps backward after opening loop with bh, and then plays the long fh swing, the one which starts low, i.e. charges power with the right hand near the right knee. Edited by seguso - 07/13/2012 at 9:03am |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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GoldenDragoon
Silver Member Joined: 01/09/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 769 |
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The amount or energy (amount of swing) you apply to a stroke depends on what you percive your ability is to play that stroke. I often play 80% and higher powered strokes right up on the table, and sometimes 50% power way back off the table. Its all to do with your confidence to land your shot.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Actually, even in his prime he didn't do it on every shot. |
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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I subscribe to the idea that ones loop stroke is scaled up or down depending on how much perceived time there is to execute a stroke. My loop stroke is a bigger faster version of my counter hit with a more closed paddle face. I try to do the biggest stroke I can given the time constraints,assuming I have selected the loop as my shot. I am also an advocate of the more circular motion on the take back and I think this is where the adjustment occurs. The more time I think I have the more down and back I take my paddle.
I think I see this in operation With WLQ. Look at his warm up loops in the match against WH, Olympic warm up. To me they look like scaled up versions of his circular counter hits.
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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There is a whole continuum of loops not just two, but most top spins that people hit I wouldn't call loops.
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Rainer87
Super Member Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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You are right, i just raid one old article of Waldner (it is estonian). Our first and only Olympian table tennis player Igor Solopov (defensive player) who was training a lot with Swedish TT team and also together with Waldner said about him this: "Defender tries to vary spin and speed against attacker and waits for him/her to make a mistake or a high ball for defender to smash for a winner with one shot. Waldners arsenal and tactics are so rich, that against him your tactics dont work, works only his tactics. One example is about his topspin arsenal, when regular player can vary over two or three topsspins, then good player can vary over six or seven, but Waldner, like I experienced in Swedish trainingcamp, can vary over twenty topspins. He can make the same movement with his blunt face, but spin, seed and direction varies all the time and then you dont understand anymore what is going on" This my translation, so excuse for mistakes, but yes, there are more than just 2 loops :). Edited by Rainer87 - 07/13/2012 at 3:03pm |
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Rainer87
Super Member Joined: 09/25/2010 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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Article is here, if anybody wants to read it, google translate make a reasonable translation, input language is estonian.
http://www.pingpong.ee/waldner-enn.html |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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I use 2 kinds. The kind that lands on the table and kind that miss. Just kidding. I find that my loop strength (and consistency) varies so much depending on the incoming spin, and lack of footwork. I agree that compact at the table makes more sense, and opening up the stroke as you get more distance, but sometimes feet do not cooperate. |
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TTeveryday
Super Member Joined: 12/30/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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If you're going for the strong put away with the big swing and not enough power to bring your arm back for the next shot, just close your eyes and pray that your opponent doesn't bring the ball back. |
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ttTurkey
Silver Member Joined: 09/07/2010 Status: Offline Points: 516 |
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Yep, both feet off the ground and eyes closed. |
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Leshxa
Gold Member Joined: 01/03/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1917 |
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The shot selection is driven by what is happening on the court.
If you have time and able to take advantage of opponent's position, you can opt for a finishing shot - with more body rotation, with long backswing and large follow through. If you don't have time, you shorten your swing and reduce your follow through preparing for fast exchanges. But this is just an example on how to utilize the speed, there are just as many variations for different types of spins and placements. |
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Back to table tennis...
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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What still puzzles me is the difference in looping styles between me and one of my practice partners that is a two wing looper. He loops, loops and more loops just about everything and anything. He is what most of you call a more european style looper. He seems to wait until the ball is just about to drop before swinging with a much more vertical stroke. My stroke is much more Chinese like except I will use only my elbow swing if the ball is close to my body. I think the big difference between us is that I tend to loop sooner off the bounce while the ball is still rising into the paddle. My paddle is moving more back to front and extremely closed. I don't do what many of you call the salute. My stroke is more across my chest. There have been some on this forum that say looping off the bounce is difficult but I find waiting and using a more European stroke unnatural. I have tried to mimimic my practice partner. I really must think about it when I am going to hit the ball and force myself to say wait for it, wait for it, wait for it and then stroke. However, when playing seriously I just don't think that way and go back to the way I have always looped.
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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there are only 2 kind of loops
1. one is against blocked balls, topspin, light underspin, no spin done with a 30 degree or less angle of the blade with a more forward motion. 2. the other one is against underspin with a more open racket angle where you start lower than the table angle when doing your swing. both loops have 4 different timings. hitting the ball on the rise or when the ball goes up, peak of the bounce, late or when the ball starts to go down and very late when the ball is below the table level. you can loop a heavy underspin ball using a 30 degree angle or less provided you hit the ball early or on the rise of the ball. both loops can be done with a fully extended arm or just a snapping stroke where your elbows are not extended.
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ohhgourami
Platinum Member Joined: 08/12/2008 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 2341 |
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Technically correct, the best kind of correct. |
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Benigma
Super Member Joined: 03/03/2012 Location: land of hope Status: Offline Points: 240 |
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the short and compact fh loop is when you're close to the table and you dont have time to do a full fh swing and this type of stroke is usually for quick counter attacks. Timo Boll seems to have this type of stroke, his forehand is renowned for those close to the table counter loops.
The full swing on the other hand where your arm finishes near your head is when you have more room and more time to prepare for the stroke, so you're generally back from the table OR the ball is high enough for the point to be finished off. When there is a lot of backspin, you would also use a full body loop with a very open bat angle to lift the ball over the net. |
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TTeveryday
Super Member Joined: 12/30/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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+1 |
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cherC
Super Member Joined: 12/08/2011 Location: St. paul Mn Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Their's only one loop I think (99.99%) sure. Why? Well because when you loop their's a right way of looping the ball and the only right way of looping the ball is useing your wasit and legs. I'm prrtty sure you know the right way to loop. Looping: When looping you have to turn your wasit backwards and useing your power from your right legs and your arm must be relax. the transport your power from your right leg to your arm, but you should feel the weight transport ing from yoiur right leg to your lift leg. That is somewhat the right way of looping. This is what you should know, I know that you know this too everyone do. Every signal one of your loops,counter loops,conuter hits,loop drive, and blocks well Never be the same as your one before. Because every hit is unique and defferent so it does not matter if one of your loop is fast the the other or if one is more spinner its still called a "LOOP". |
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Name:Cher Lee
Started playing Table tennis: Apirl 13-2011 Blade: Ma Lin Extra OFF Black Rubber: Hurricane 2 Red Rubber: Moon |
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cherC
Super Member Joined: 12/08/2011 Location: St. paul Mn Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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But this is only my opinoin.
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Name:Cher Lee
Started playing Table tennis: Apirl 13-2011 Blade: Ma Lin Extra OFF Black Rubber: Hurricane 2 Red Rubber: Moon |
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IllSonny
Super Member Joined: 07/24/2011 Location: Saint Paul Status: Offline Points: 191 |
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I dont understand what you mean, Cher... |
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Mahdi_mak2000
Super Member Joined: 01/21/2012 Location: china Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I use the first one whenever i want to topspin an incoming back spin
otherwise i use the second one... the killer one... |
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cherC
Super Member Joined: 12/08/2011 Location: St. paul Mn Status: Offline Points: 128 |
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Their`s a chinese/european forehand loop if thats what blahness mean, but what i think is theirs only one kind of loop because the only time you loop is when your looping a underspin/backspin ball (RIGHT?). do you get what i mean? The one that is more simple and less compact is just more of a conuter hit but just brusting the ball a little its like a european stroke. The one that has more compact bigger is a chinese stroke. It the same LOOPING kind of thing you know. Your still looping the ball the only defferent is your stroke and your technique.
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Name:Cher Lee
Started playing Table tennis: Apirl 13-2011 Blade: Ma Lin Extra OFF Black Rubber: Hurricane 2 Red Rubber: Moon |
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Tao
Member Joined: 08/06/2012 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Hi, this my idea: the first loop on back spin should be with a longer movement for the snap of forearm giving brush to the boll slow loop, after this the ball is now in top spin so I can close a little my paddle and make not half movement but 80% of the stroke because I ha not enough time for full swing.
Sorry for my incorrect language. |
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Chinese tecnique is simply the best
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