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5th ball attack |
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zakc 
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Joined: 08/26/2011 Location: NewZealand Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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 Topic: 5th ball attackPosted: 09/27/2011 at 5:21am |
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Hey so I need some advice from some more advanced tt players about 5th ball attack. After I play an opening topspin (after backspin serve), when my opponents blocks the ball sometimes shoots to the side after it hits the table. My coach says it's because of the spin I produce on my opening topspin but when the ball suddenly shoots to the side I tend to miss it a lot. Can anyone help me with improving my 5th ball attack?
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rpbnakata
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Joined: 10/03/2007 Status: Offline Points: 454 |
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 5:36am |
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Sorry to say but improving 5th ball attack won´t make you win more. Modern table tennis request consistency to exchange strokes. Top chinese players are showing it to the world. You can see Zhang Jike or Ma Long looping 3, 4, 5, 10 times until they win the point. It´s a question of "who will miss first".
And, in my opinion, the key to achieve consistency is footwork.
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Stoi
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 5:52am |
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+1 Footwork first, after, the rest. Edited by Stoi - 09/27/2011 at 5:52am |
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APW46
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Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 8:09am |
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I disagree, I've been using 5th ball attack for years, I play a consistent topspin game, but i'm always looking for a 5th ball. If the serve is tight enough (1/2 long) to get a long push, and you load enough topspin on yr opening loop, (deep) the opponent is in danger of putting your loop off the end if he's too forceful, so you tend to get a passive block, which can be easy fodder.
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rpbnakata
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 8:39am |
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bonggoy
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 9:57am |
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Fifth ball is a good foundation for a successful attacking game. More so than third ball attack, IMO.
When you say you miss. How do you miss? Off the table? Into the net? What you need to do is design a series of fifth ball attacking drills. Richard Mcaffee's book, Table Tennis Steps to Success has some really good fifth balls drills that you can use. |
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atv
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Joined: 03/18/2011 Location: Shanghai China Status: Offline Points: 1136 |
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 10:19am |
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improve your opening loop at 3rd ball
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YEO
FH: 729 08 ES BH: Focus III Snipe Senkoh-1 FH: H3 Comm BH: 755 |
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ZJKandMLfan
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Joined: 01/19/2011 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 10:36am |
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im guessing the reason its shooting to the side is because first, you're opening loop could have sidespin meaning it's very possible your opponent blocks back with sidespin as well.
OR ur opponent is adding his own sidespin, creating a side-spin block causing you to miss. If you just loop topspin with no side, there's no way the ball should be shooting to a side unless ur opponent adds his own spin (and that's higher level defense). the first step is knowing what you're looping (top or top + side), followed by reading your opponents block (just a normal block or is he adding spin), and then improving your footwork as well
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mjamja
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 11:02am |
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For the specific problem you mentioned with missing a ball that jumps sideways:
You have to learn to hit your opening loop so that either:
1. You only hit it with topspin so you never get that sideways bounce when it comes back
2. You only hit it with side-spin (and relatively the same side-spin) so that it always bounces sideways. Gradually you will learn to anticipate the side-ways bounce since you get it each time.
3. Learn to feel the difference between hitting the pure topspin and side-topspin loops so you will know as soon as you hit your shot whether or not the return ball is going to jump sideways.
I would suggest starting with number 1. Work with your coach or practice partner and let them block your opening loop and then just watch how their return bounces. The basic idea is to hit your loop more on the back of the ball instead of around the side of the ball.
Some things that might help you recognize that side-spin is coming back to you so that you can anticipate the side-ways bounce.
1. Is the return curving left or right in the air as it comes toward you. If it is curving it has side-spin on it and it will bounce side-ways in the same direction it is curving.
2. When your opponent blocked the loop, did he angle his racket so the racket tip or racket handle was pointed more towards where the ball was blocked than the normal block where the tip and handle point sideways (perpendicular) to the direction the ball is blocked. This blocking with an angled racket shows that the opponent saw that you hit side-spin on your loop and was using his racket angle to compensate for it and to give your side-spin back to you.
3. When you opponent blocked the loop (with the normal racket angle) did the ball seem to come off his racket going more side-ways than you would expect from the way the racket was pointed. This would also indicate that you hit side-spin on your loop and that some of it will come back to you.
I have a similar problem playing with one particular doubles partner. He hits a lot of very heavy side-spin serves. Often if I am not paying enough attention to what serve he signalled or if he hits an especially heavy side-spin serve I get suprised by the side-ways bounce on the serve return. I have to really pay attention and think about how the side-spin on his serve will be coming back to me.
Good luck
Mark
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APW46
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 11:28am |
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Yes and no, it depends on how good your serves are vs how good he is at receiving them. Good serving is all about limiting the options of the receiver. I won a tournament yesterday, largely because nobody else there was good enough to do any other than return my serves how I wanted them too. In two weeks time when I play in a major national competition, it will be totally different, and I will beat some players and lose to some players, I do however played at the level where looping flicks is the norm. If you perfect a consistent half/long (just inside the endline) chop serve, you get long pushes or soft flicks constantly, rarely short, but if so, you can flick yrself.
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APW46
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 11:32am |
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yes
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Vassily
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Joined: 12/22/2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 614 |
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Posted: 09/27/2011 at 4:14pm |
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Ideally for each of your standardish serves you need to figure out the common replies, practice attacking those replies and then the common replies (for their 4th ball), then practice 5th ball. So hopefully when playing a real point you probably already practiced something very similar to the point before.
Also helpful to figure out if the serves lets you play a point that you like. So for example if you dont like 3rd ball looping heavy sidespin, dont serve heavy sidespin. If you like counterattacking and/or have crappy short game, you should serve longer more. Its like chess, you only play a subset of the openings, and you get familiar with the games that result from that opening. And just like chess, its nice to have some offbeat opening variations to annoy the opponent, but the more offbeat the opening the weaker in general it is. |
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zakc
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Posted: 09/28/2011 at 11:28pm |
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Well I sometimes miss the ball completely because it suddenly shoots to the right after it bounces
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zakc
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Posted: 09/28/2011 at 11:31pm |
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Very helpful advice thanks mark
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Elliok
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Posted: 10/01/2011 at 12:25pm |
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Zakc, I have experienced the same problem. I have noticed that there are players who block my loops with side spin and some that don't. I haven't met many players who can do both. I notice that this happens mostly when I heavy loop underspin balls. this may be because it is easier to block a heavy loop by working around the sides of the ball where there is less spin. If you are having the same problem as me, one thing I do when playing players who sidespin block is just assume the block is going to have sidespin every time, until they prove me wrong.
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rpbnakata wrote: