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A bunch of problem, please help~

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susubean View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/23/2008 at 10:40pm
Hello All myTT friends,

  It has been long ti
me I have submerged from the forum (in fact, submerged from the entired internet world) after moving back from UK to malaysia. Also stopped playing TT for more then half a year already (bcs of various problem, one shown below) but I am still curious of few TT stroke if you could share some of your experience or thought.

 
many thanks first : ).

  - 1. how to execute good short-push, to stop third-ball attack ?  I saw Pro contacts the very bottom of the ball and the ball travels just above the net and with almost 90 degree bounce up after hitting the opponent table. I find this stroke really amazing but don't know how to achieve it. If i just drop short, the ball hardly go with heavy spin, so the opponent can flip the ball and start dominating the game. If I try to mimic what the Pro does, the ball bounces up so high that it is just like asking for a big attack in return. Really confuse about how to execute this stroke.

  - 2. how to determine what short return can be fliped ? and how to execute flip especially for penholder ? it seems to me that if the ball is likely to bounce on my table 3 or more times then it is easlier to flip then a ball bounce only twice on my table, i find the middle distance of first bounce is hard to flip (and the ball bounce almost vertically up), yet I can't execute the big loop bcs the ball doesn't go out of the table.

  - 3. how to take care of knee ? i have enjoyed TT for the last 3 years at UK, but there was once i falled down in a game and badly injured my knee. During the long 6 months treatment, i have also injured my another knee by keep pushing too much weight on to it. i've bought couple of knee protection pad but it doesn't seems helpful regardless on or off the game. Sometime these days I can't even stand for more then 10 minutes, the pain just come out, I am just 34, not 94... Seeing my father go to play TT everyday is just a big joke to me. I wonder any good supplement & care the Pro would take to prolong their sport life ? i mean the healthy and legal one.


  Thanks for spending time to reply : ).


Best Wishes,
susubean
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theman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2008 at 10:47pm
1. try and "dig" more into the ball with the push, to get some sufficient backspin, so brushing downwards, the head of the racket is down and near  vertical.  if u  just tap it, although it is a safer shot, it will reduce the spin and might cause a flip from the opponent. a good push will at least avoid a quick attack.

2. flip, dunno for penholder but i was told, racket tip/head down, slightly open and follow up and forward, towards the back of the ball, and the wrist is open. question: whats sufficient space between bat and ball, i mean do i start like 12 inches and then flip, or is my bat "already there" and then flip?
i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

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BRYCE-G2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRYCE-G2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2008 at 12:33am
Dear Susubean
 
are u still in Malaysia? where are u currently? in KL wanna meet up and have a match?
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gekogark1212 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gekogark1212 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2008 at 12:51am
1. You need to learn how to take all the energy off the ball. This is a good drill. HIt a ball vertically upwards then "catch" it with your racket, without letting let bounce. Kind of a scooping motion.
 
2. Flipping is very personal, I used to use the "correct" method until I saw the HK national coach, just hits into the ball and follows through. But the most important point to note is timing, if you're in position and hit the top of bounce, then almost any ball can be flipped.
(\__/)

(='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake,

(")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
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Hookshot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2008 at 1:58am
Hi Susu,,,
     It is the same as a good chop, double bounce serve. you are not hitting the back of the ball. You are brushing the very bottom of the ball. How much spin you get is determined by bat speed. Lots of wrist, flat (horizontal) blade.      High level, double bounce serves are the same problem, high blade speed but light contact so the energy is used for spin, not speed. You cannot approche the same spin coming down on the back of the ball.
     Depends what the injury is but try Glucosamine/chondroitin. Takes a couple weeks to start working. I have injuries from rock climbing and it works.Smile
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Flicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2008 at 2:28pm
Susu - I second Hookshot's recommendation on the Glucosamine chondroitin.  I am taking that myself currently and have seen the benefit.  Keep doing physical therapy exercises that help stregthen the ligaments around your knees.  Be patient and take it as slow as your knee allows you to do.  Pushing it too fast (i.e. putting too much weight on it, etc.) will only aggrevate it more and make it worse.  Good luck.
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susubean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susubean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2008 at 11:12pm
Thank you all very much :D :D, I will take your advice very seriously :D.

BRYCE-G2, I am staying at Kuching, if you come over please drop me a message but I don't think I can give you a good game (even I didn't injury my knee :p).

Theman, dig with more brush is really a skillful stroke, I tried it many time but just can't keep the ball short when i put more spin on it :<, will have to practise more I guess. And I have the same doubt about when and where to start the flip, I got few success with both stroke and fail many too :<.

Gekogark1212, you are just doing right what I saw from the Pro game, absort the energy, catch the ball vertically upward and without letting it bounce, kind of a scooping motion, really nice illustration. You have just confirmed what I've seen. It is shame that most of the TT show was shooting top down, so we can't see it clearly whether the pro is tagging the ball or brushing the ball or just "catching" it from the bottom up. If I can master this particular drill, ho ho man, i will be at the next level :D.

Hookshot, i thought about the samething, it must be similar to the double-bounce backspin serve, but it is not that similar, I do quite a lot of short serve and some time manage to get the ball bounce back to the net (one in a thousand trial ;p). The different is, perhaps more difficult to achieve then making short spinny serve is, serve has the ball drop vertically down while return serve having the ball going forward to you, i tried to use the same serve-motion to contact the ball, it bounced too high. I think I haven't absort the power just like Gekograk1212 mentioned. Need more more practise!

It is not like a good chop bcs chop normally asks for big movement of the bad (in order to absort most power) and it is likely making the ball bounce out the opponent table. At least not what I saw from the Pro play, they contacted the ball very quick yet very little movement. Ccurrently I will just do chop-style push when I know I can't control the ball anymore, a chop push makes ball travel as long as possible, hopefully get time to recover and ready for the coming big loop. But sadly just not ready when I played some top UK200 players.

And yes, Hookshot & Flicker, I have started to take Glucosamine chondroitin 2 weeks ago, it does make me a lot better these few days (last few months I thought I need a wheelchair for entire lifetime!), i have to be very patient now, hopefully in another 3 months i can get back to normal (man, it is almost a year already since my injury :__< ).

Thank you all again & always take care of yourself so you can always enjoy more, a little sand on the ground could kill your sport life easily.


Best wishes,
Susubean
A penholder who can't run.
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Flicker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2008 at 9:46am
Originally posted by susubean susubean wrote:

Thank you all again & always take care of yourself so you can always enjoy more, a little sand on the ground could kill your sport life easily.


Best wishes,
Susubean
A penholder who can't run.
 

Hi Susubean - I can understand your frustration. I too had had major sport injury before. I used to play a lot of volleyball when I was in my 20's and one time injured my back playing sand volleyball. It got so bad that I could not even stand up straight in the morning to get dressed. I was stressed, depressed, and did not eat or sleep well because of my condition. Mentally and physically, it was not easy dealing with the fact that I had gone from an active athlete to a near-handicap. It took me almost 3 full-years before I fully recovered. Just a lot of patience and a lot of those small exercises that I often ignored or underestimated their benefits. I had started training table tennis seriously in the last 6 months or so. The knees and backs sometimes don't hold up to the abuse too well but now I have learned to listen to them and take proper care (rest, joint supplement, ibuprofen) of them better. So far I have been able to enjoy my tt training and playing without much problem. Hang in there, be patient and take it easy. You will be all over the court wreaking havoc with your c-pen before you know it. :)) Take care.

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theman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2008 at 9:59am
Originally posted by susubean susubean wrote:

Thank you all very much :D :D, I will take your advice very seriously :D.

Theman, dig with more brush is really a skillful stroke, I tried it many time but just can't keep the ball short when i put more spin on it :<, will have to practise more I guess. And I have the same doubt about when and where to start the flip, I got few success with both stroke and fail many too :<.



yeh i keep on digging the ball, but have yet to keep it short at times. it hard to dig and not keep it long. when i "tap it", sure enuf its good and short, i guess its apart of the management of spin.
i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Schlager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2008 at 11:19am
About your knee..
 
You should probably go see a guy that has specialized on that stuff.. I don't know the English word, but in Norway we call it a "fysioterapist" Which directly translated would be Physiotherapist or something like that..
 
My coach had some trouble with his knee and he did an exercise called legextension with really small weights (about 20 kg's) and lifted it up with both legs and slowly(!) brought it down on only one leg..
He did/does this 30 times x 3 sets, 3 times a week..
It seems to have helped him, but ask someone who can tell you for sure that this is the right thing for you.. Just a tip :)
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susubean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susubean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2008 at 11:02pm
Flicker, thank you very much for your courage, my UK's GP did tell me that it would take very long time to get recover, and advised me have to really careful, the injury like this sometime worse then having a broken bone. Couple of my friend have similar experience while they were young like you, also took 3 years or more to start get back to sport. I am not sure I have such fortunate to get back bcs I am already 34. You are right, I have to listen to my knee and take proper care (also my back neck, having a minor car accident couple years ago, pain comes out now from time to time, damn me!).

Theman, the more I recall the stroke played by those UK national league players, the more I believe it might not same as the "digging" motion, it is not an ordinary push but more like what Gekogark1212 mentioned above, take all the energy off the ball, hit a ball vertically upwards then "catch" it with your racket, without letting it bounce. There was once I thought my mind was dreaming bcs the Pro looked like contacting the ball at bottom-front! But Gekogark1212 has confirmed I wasn't dreaming, it is a movement of "vertically upwards then catch the ball". The stroke is so beautiful that the second bounce at the opponent table hardly go far away from the first bounce, almost a vertical bounce. The opponent can't flip it but just to tag it short or push it long and ready for the top spin rally.

Schlager, thank you very much, you have just recalled that I had a physics doctor when I was at UK but I didn't find one after coming back to this small town, I shall go to contact a local physics here too, thankss!

Thank you all, really appreciated your tip and time as you have just confirm it isn't the "aging" problem but just part of the recovering period, I shall take more care, patient, good supplement and good exercise instructed by physics. Damn me again, I throwed away the exercise paper given by my beautiful UK physics months after I thought I can run again... urh!


Best wishes,
Susubean
A penholder who want to fly again :-).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flicker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2008 at 1:15am
Originally posted by susubean susubean wrote:



Thank you all, really appreciated your tip and time as you have just confirm it isn't the "aging" problem but just part of the recovering period, I shall take more care, patient, good supplement and good exercise instructed by physics. Damn me again, I throwed away the exercise paper given by my beautiful UK physics months after I thought I can run again... urh!


Best wishes,
Susubean
A penholder who want to fly again :-).
 
Susubean - Since you threw the exercise instructions away it is a good excuse to go back and see your beautiful UK physician again. Wink 
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susubean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susubean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2008 at 4:15am
Originally posted by Flicker Flicker wrote:

 
Susubean - Since you threw the exercise instructions away it is a good excuse to go back and see your beautiful UK physician again. Wink 


Ha haa... that would be a very expensive trip, around USD1500. Perhaps I should injury myself more before seeing her again ;-).
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