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A video with my now 4 year old son

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    Posted: 10/29/2011 at 9:39pm
I posted a video of my son Charlie back in the summer and I just put together a new one from some video I shot this afternoon. Charlie continues to enjoy playing the game and seems to be improving in spite of the fact that his instructor (ie me) has no idea what he is doing.

Here is the youtube link:



Edited by mderka - 10/30/2011 at 9:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2011 at 10:32pm
lol at "when I was a baby, did I know any sports?"

Edited by kenneyy88 - 10/29/2011 at 10:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2011 at 12:59am
I'll be damn, I am amazed. Looks way more consistent than most of my coworkers for sure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2011 at 1:19am
Charlie is going to play like Timo Boll one day if he keeps getting trained like this!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2011 at 6:09pm
So Cute! He and you are getting more consistent. "Was that a power slam?" "A backhand power slam?" lololololol, priceless times. But, you are still using an unorthodox grip.. It's not that hard to change, especially when playing slow, like you do with Charlie. With solely regards to advancement in the game, you may be digging yourself a deep hole...hopefully you don't drag Charlie into your hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2011 at 11:07pm
all of his talent will be wasted if you don't get a coach for him and start taking him to a club.  He has real talent and can develop into a great player, but if you don't start getting him some coaching now he will develop a lot of bad habits that will be hard to un-learn.  You can also go to pingskills.com and check out some of their instructional videos.  They have lots of good tips on proper strokes, etc.  I would also highly recommend taking him to a club and finding a coach for him.  There is probably some good players in your area.  He moves so well and follows the ball better than many juniors who are 3-4 years older.  Next time you post a video of him I want to see him practicing some drills with a coach.
Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 10:18am
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

So Cute! He and you are getting more consistent. "Was that a power slam?" "A backhand power slam?" lololololol, priceless times. But, you are still using an unorthodox grip.. It's not that hard to change, especially when playing slow, like you do with Charlie. With solely regards to advancement in the game, you may be digging yourself a deep hole...hopefully you don't drag Charlie into your hole.


Just curious, how can you tell anything about my grip on the video. I just watched it again and you really never see my hand. Believe me, I'm not saying I have a perfect grip by any means, just not sure what you saw in the video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 10:22am
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

all of his talent will be wasted if you don't get a coach for him and start taking him to a club.  He has real talent and can develop into a great player, but if you don't start getting him some coaching now he will develop a lot of bad habits that will be hard to un-learn.  You can also go to pingskills.com and check out some of their instructional videos.  They have lots of good tips on proper strokes, etc.  I would also highly recommend taking him to a club and finding a coach for him.  There is probably some good players in your area.  He moves so well and follows the ball better than many juniors who are 3-4 years older.  Next time you post a video of him I want to see him practicing some drills with a coach.
Good luck.


Charlie goes to a club in Nashua, New Hampshire almost on a weekly basis and plays with some of the other players. There is a coach there, but he doesn't think Charlie is coach-able until he gets a bit older. Don't know if you have kids yourself, but 4 year olds are not really into drills and serious instruction. What I don't want to do is take away the fun of the game by making it too serious at this point.

He watches lots of instructional videos online and picks up tips here and there. I got him a robot for his birthday and he will hit balls with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 10:49am
The next big window of brain development that is critical for skill occurs between ages 6 and 10. keep it fun now and he will actually enjoy drills and training later. 
Watching Charlie reminds me of how much fun playing is. Now I want to go play.
Thanks for posting his vid.

Read Bounce  by Matthew Syed. It will give you some perspective(starting to sound like a broken record).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 10:49am
Originally posted by mderka mderka wrote:



Charlie goes to a club in Nashua, New Hampshire almost on a weekly basis and plays with some of the other players. There is a coach there, but he doesn't think Charlie is coach-able until he gets a bit older. Don't know if you have kids yourself, but 4 year olds are not really into drills and serious instruction. What I don't want to do is take away the fun of the game by making it too serious at this point.

He watches lots of instructional videos online and picks up tips here and there. I got him a robot for his birthday and he will hit balls with that.


I don't agree with the coach you mentioned. He most probably does not work with kids in his coaching career. Here in Singapore, our TT association is setting up a scheme to bring table tennis to all kindergarten children and they have regional training centres to train kids starting at about 4 years old. Coaches hired are from China. Already there are school competitions catered to primary 1 and 2 i.e. 7 to 8 years old and their basics are rather good.

Kids on their own hate drills but when everybody in a group does the same, competition is rife to outdo each other in the drills. Of course having fierce coaches willing to scream at them while at the same time knowing how to make training fun is important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 11:10am
Originally posted by TT_64 TT_64 wrote:



I don't agree with the coach you mentioned. He most probably does not work with kids in his coaching career. Here in Singapore, our TT association is setting up a scheme to bring table tennis to all kindergarten children and they have regional training centres to train kids starting at about 4 years old. Coaches hired are from China. Already there are school competitions catered to primary 1 and 2 i.e. 7 to 8 years old and their basics are rather good.

Kids on their own hate drills but when everybody in a group does the same, competition is rife to outdo each other in the drills. Of course having fierce coaches willing to scream at them while at the same time knowing how to make training fun is important.



The coach up here is from the old Czech republic and he does mostly focus on adults. I did take Charlie to another club with a Chinese instructor and when he saw Charlie play (this was about 6 months ago) all he said was "too young, too young!" Other than that there are not a lot of options up this way so I guess he is stuck with me for a while :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 12:43pm
yeah...I don't really agree either with him being too young to coach.  I have 2 children that play (10 and 13) and both started about 2.5 years ago.  If you find a good coach he can still make it fun...but the good thing is that he would be developing good strokes early on.  A good coach can also make some challenges for him that should be fun as well.  Like TT_64 said...in China they start in kindergarten with coaching and that's why they are so good.  It does make a difference though if they have a bunch of other kids their age to play with.  It's also good that Charlie likes to watch some instructional videos as he can learn a lot just from watching them.  At 4 a coach shouldn't make it too serious, but a good coach would give him some fun challenges and would also ensure he develops good strokes/footwork.  I think you can have fun and do some basic drills at the same time. 
Best of luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 12:51pm
I looked at the clubs available in NH and there is another club in Manchester only about 30 mins from Nashua and they have a coach there that was on the Chinese Natl Team who was also head coach of the Honk Kong Natl Team.  He gives 30 min private lessons and that would be perfect for your son.  I would take my kids to see him in a heartbeat...so go check out their club.  He should be especially good at teaching kids having such an extensive playing background in China.
If you go see him let me know how it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

I looked at the clubs available in NH and there is another club in Manchester only about 30 mins from Nashua and they have a coach there that was on the Chinese Natl Team who was also head coach of the Honk Kong Natl Team.  He gives 30 min private lessons and that would be perfect for your son.  I would take my kids to see him in a heartbeat...so go check out their club.  He should be especially good at teaching kids having such an extensive playing background in China.
If you go see him let me know how it goes.


Hey, thanks for the info! I will definitely bring Charlie up there and let them check him out and see what they would recommend.

I guess my biggest fear is burning him out on the game. Right now he has so much fun playing that I don't want to spoil it for him by making it too serious.

We tried taking him to tennis lessons which are much easier to find in these parts and very quickly Charlie got frustrated because they weren't letting him play. They were trying lots of little learning games and he boycotted the whole thing rather quickly.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by mderka mderka wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

So Cute! He and you are getting more consistent. "Was that a power slam?" "A backhand power slam?" lololololol, priceless times. But, you are still using an unorthodox grip.. It's not that hard to change, especially when playing slow, like you do with Charlie. With solely regards to advancement in the game, you may be digging yourself a deep hole...hopefully you don't drag Charlie into your hole.


Just curious, how can you tell anything about my grip on the video. I just watched it again and you really never see my hand. Believe me, I'm not saying I have a perfect grip by any means, just not sure what you saw in the video.

0:34, 0:41, 0:44, forehand and backhand unorthodox/garage style. The way you hold the racket limits how many wheels you have, which limits power, reach, consistency, etc. Currently you have only 1 wheel, which is your index finger/elbow. Charlie has many wheels, waist, shoulder, elbow, chest, free arm, etc. It's hard to change at first, but once you do it, you unlock lots of potential. If not for Charlie, do it for yourself. You will have way more fun, as opposed to stagnation play. Start by keep that index finger down, and you could even ask Charlie to help you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2011 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:



0:34, 0:41, 0:44, forehand and backhand unorthodox/garage style. The way you hold the racket limits how many wheels you have, which limits power, reach, consistency, etc. Currently you have only 1 wheel, which is your index finger/elbow. Charlie has many wheels, waist, shoulder, elbow, chest, free arm, etc. It's hard to change at first, but once you do it, you unlock lots of potential. If not for Charlie, do it for yourself. You will have way more fun, as opposed to stagnation play. Start by keep that index finger down, and you could even ask Charlie to help you. 


Thanks for the tips! I am a novice player at best, but keep in mind I am playing a 4 year old. I don't really want to put my full body into the shot and crush the thing. Charlie would not approve.

I am trying to improve my skills at the game so I can continue to play with Charlie as he improves through the years. I hit balls on the robot when the kids are asleep and when Charlie is playing with the other members at the club I too get to hit around with the guys and I'm picking up tips here and there.

My main purpose right now is to feed balls to Charlie that he can hit with confidence. I am a vessel for him to play with and hopefully improve with until I have served my purpose and he can move on to higher instruction. Nothing would make me happier than if one day my 10-12 year old will need to take it easy on his old man for a friendly game.

Lets face it. I'm a 38 year old guy who's never gonna be much good at this sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlie harper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 3:16am
Your son likes the game train him well he will reach somewhere high.

As for you ,you are lucky man enjoy these times till you can both you and your son will remember them years on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 3:39am
mderka, starting at 38 years you could still be a very very good player by the time you reach 55. I've been coaching a guy in his 50's and another that's 60 and both are able to improve faster than an average teenager, not quite as fast as a talented teenager but faster than the average. The 50 something has been playing about 4 years and just starting training seriously. The 60 year old has been playing 3 years and also only just started training. The 60 year old would be currently about 1700 US the 50 year old maybe 1400. Both are athletic and ripped like Ned Flanders so that probably helps

p.s I just can not believe the touch your son has on the ball, it's so good. If I ever had a son with talent like this I'd get another table and make the legs adjustable while hes so short so he can learn some normal strokes


Edited by bluebucket - 11/01/2011 at 3:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 10:24am
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

I just can not believe the touch your son has on the ball, it's so good. If I ever had a son with talent like this I'd get another table and make the legs adjustable while hes so short so he can learn some normal strokes


I looked everywhere for an adjustable table. They do exist, but are really hard to find.

I tried putting charlie on a 4" platform that he could stand on, but he protested big time. You see, Charlie is not what you would call modest. He truly believes he is going to be the "world champion" at ping pong one day and standing on a platform or for that matter, playing on a lower table would be beneath him!

I've debated the height adjustable thing over and over. Some say its better to develop his swing. Others say that at such a young age if he is able to adapt. As he continues to play and grow he will just change with his change in height.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 10:43am
I guess just keep doing what you are doing then, I don't have any experience coaching a kid that young so if full height tables are ok then that's fine with me :). If a kid tells you he's going to be world champion at 4 years old and he keeps telling you that everyday of his life well who's to say he wont be. With an attitude like that, if he keeps it I'm sure he will at least be up near the top of the country ratings at some stage. 

Not only does he have the touch on the ball he seems to have the not so normal ability to use his muscles fully, I come across so many even 14 year olds that can't control their muscles well enough to hit even as hard as your son


Edited by bluebucket - 11/01/2011 at 10:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2011 at 11:16am
Definitely Charlie needs to improve consistent, bh power, footwook and wrist LOL 

Edited by jonyer1980 - 11/01/2011 at 11:17am
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No, now seriously, man. Keep increasing the interest to your son for table tennis by watching table tennis videos (from the best and from the not so best players) and playing just for fun and when the time comes (don't know how many years) you should take him to a proper coach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2011 at 5:27am
Originally posted by mderka mderka wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:


0:34, 0:41, 0:44, forehand and backhand unorthodox/garage style. The way you hold the racket limits how many wheels you have, which limits power, reach, consistency, etc. Currently you have only 1 wheel, which is your index finger/elbow. Charlie has many wheels, waist, shoulder, elbow, chest, free arm, etc. It's hard to change at first, but once you do it, you unlock lots of potential. If not for Charlie, do it for yourself. You will have way more fun, as opposed to stagnation play. Start by keep that index finger down, and you could even ask Charlie to help you. 


Thanks for the tips! I am a novice player at best, but keep in mind I am playing a 4 year old. I don't really want to put my full body into the shot and crush the thing. Charlie would not approve.

I am trying to improve my skills at the game so I can continue to play with Charlie as he improves through the years. I hit balls on the robot when the kids are asleep and when Charlie is playing with the other members at the club I too get to hit around with the guys and I'm picking up tips here and there.

My main purpose right now is to feed balls to Charlie that he can hit with confidence. I am a vessel for him to play with and hopefully improve with until I have served my purpose and he can move on to higher instruction. Nothing would make me happier than if one day my 10-12 year old will need to take it easy on his old man for a friendly game.

Lets face it. I'm a 38 year old guy who's never gonna be much good at this sport.
 
Okay first of all, I'm blown away by this video. So great. And so great that you'll be able to go back and watch it with him in the future. I loved the ABC recital.
 
Charlie is doing amazing and has such a great attitude! His brush loop at :14 is executed with more touch and understanding that countless basement players I've played against.
 
Keep up the great work Dad! So cool you have this fun activity together and that you're investing the time with him. I think you have a good balance of encouragement while not becoming the obsessive parent (as a former personal trainer who helped out with some t-ball sessions..... whew.... that's another story).
 
Now, on this whole grip issue. I took the time to make some snips (because I'm a nerd).
 
34 sec
 
split second later at 34 sec
 
42 sec (I can't tell anything from this one)
 
44 sec
 
44 sec, split second later
 
btw, I don't agree that you're doomed to this sentence at all: Lets face it. I'm a 38 year old guy who's never gonna be much good at this sport. No way! You could easily become a good player.
 
I hope I get to see a video in the future as he progresses.


Edited by the_theologian - 11/03/2011 at 5:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2011 at 5:23pm
at the_theologian's 42 second snip, your unorthodox backhand grip is like a straight boxer's punch. Which again only utilizes 1 wheel, your elbow. If you watch a good player at the club or for example ma long, their backhand uses their waist, legs, shoulder, wrist, elbow, etc. Once you change your grip, you also will be able to utilize all of those. Even with passive or slow play, you still can use the correct grip. It's actually easier to block with the right grip because you have a lot more range of motion.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2011 at 6:13pm

4 definitely isn't too young to be coached, not if he has a will to play and the ability to concentrate well. My local coach used to tell me that Fred was too young to go to his coaching sessions. In the end I am glad I coached him myself.

My personal opinion is that as well as good coaching, good feeding is very important. If you are willing to keep working on your own game, your accurate feeding will be a valuable tool helping your son to progress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2011 at 12:22am
@mderka

http://www.usatt.org/magazine/10Nov-Dec/Nov%20TECH.pdf

For the list of height-adjustable tables available currently on market please see the USATT Magazine, Page#4.
In my own mind, the 'Cornilleau Pro Evolutive' is quite the thing for your son, seeing it allows the table's upper surface to be reset down to 60cm from the flooring --the best adequate height for teaching the game a tiny-sized kid under 7yo.

Good luck and many happy training sessions!!
Igor.


Edited by igorponger - 11/04/2011 at 12:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swiff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2011 at 6:37am
Your boy is doing great!  As inspiration, I'm providing the following youtube link.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzn4kv9NhxU


Edited by Swiff - 11/04/2011 at 6:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mderka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2011 at 10:01am
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses and helpful information.

I looked into the height adjustable tables. The only one that is available in the US is the Joola Variant and its over $1000, which is a bit steep for me.

I guess I could look into taking a less expensive table and modifying it to use temporarily.

I think what I'll do is bring Charlie up to the club in Manchester NH and see what the instructor up there thinks. In the meantime Charlie and I will continue to play in the basement and hit our regular club on the weekends.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debraj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2011 at 2:45pm
he is amazing... !!! really!!

i have a 3 yr old daughter... looks like i need to get her started:)

i think raising the floor by some platform will be cheaper than spending $1000 on height adjust table.

other option is dig holes, where you have the table stands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/04/2011 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

i think raising the floor by some platform will be cheaper than spending $1000 on height adjust table.

other option is dig holes, where you have the table stands.


Best to just cut the legs of a cheap table... You can always prop it back up.  Wink
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