Against Spinny Loop, what to do?

First - Background:

I'm a beginning/intermediate player. I haven't played in a USATT tournament in over a year. I've spent that time fixing some horribly broken stroke mechanics and focusing on things other than serve and third ball.

One thing that puzzles me; when my US1500-1600 opponents loop with heavy spin, I find that I am much more consistent when actively COUNTERING those shots (using a FH forward drive motion, almost a smash) than when I attempt to passively block.

When blocking, I have to be really accurate precise with the angle to adjust for spin, and the balls I produce are generally slow enough to be attacked. But when countering, it seems like I can overwhelm the spin with forward force and catch my opponent off guard, often winning the point outright, or at least catching them during backswing and leaving an opening (they can't reloop the counter) that produces a weak ball for me to attack.

But recently, a better player (US1800) said that I should focus on blocking spinny loops, before I learn to counter them.

In my head, I know this makes sense (learn to walk, before you can run). But my on table and point percentages against spin-loops (top or side top) are much higher if I actively attack the ball (at maybe 80% of full stroke).

I don't know if it's simply an attitude problem I have or if it's somehow equipment related issue (tacky, hard sponge FH), but teeing off on soft spin focused "euro-style" loops coming from US1500-1600 players is not only easier than learning to block them, but also fairly consistent even in match play.

What's amusing to me is that I can block fast loopdrives just fine for my level. It's not a strength, but it's not a glaring weakness. Spinny loops however are another matter. I have the most trouble when I decide NOT to attack them.

I'm looking for thoughts or advice from higher ability players who have already addressed this gameplay dilemma.

It's better to attack them..

if you want to block those loops, take it off the bounce with a close angle bat. Loosen your grip to absorb the impact on contact.. give it a positive movement by moving your bat forward to the direction you want to return the ball..

dragon kid wrote: It's better to attack them.. if you want to block those loops, take it off the bounce with a close angle bat. Loosen your grip to absorb the impact on contact.. give it a positive movement by moving your bat forward to the direction you want to return the ball..

+1 (i was composing as you wrote)

yes... loose grip & early

You need to learn to block them, your mate is right. To re-loop a strong loop is by far the most difficult shot in the game. And for all intent against a good player it's next to impossible off the first returned loop if you are close to the table, you just wont have time. But if you can block the first one and buy yourself some time to move away from the table, perhaps then you can re-attack. Even then the ball will be dropping down on such a steep angle that its _very_ hard to time your counter loop, it's miles beyond the level I play at.

But there is time enough to block them while close to the table and percentage wise is a much smarter shot, if you can learn to block 3 strong loops in a row consistantly, you will beat almost any club level looper.

Taking a _very_ loose grip on the blade and letting the impact absorb the spin is how you do it. It's not hard once you realise that and 1000 times easier than looping it back

icontek wrote: One thing that puzzles me; when my US1500-1600 opponents loop with heavy spin, I find that I am much more consistent when actively COUNTERING those shots (using a FH forward drive motion, almost a smash) than when I attempt to passively block.

i just skimmed through this and understand that u are haveing trouble with passivly blocking back spinny loops....forgive me if im wrong

I will share my technique to block them. It is a passive block that i do. I do not really know how to make someone understand this without a video but i will give it a shot.

When the ball lands at the table on your side, make sure that your racket takes it off the bounce, with a very very loose write (grip). Once the ball touches the rubber, take your hands back a bit. That dampens the speed on the ball but retains the spin on it. It is almost like sending the same shot back at your opponent. Something similar to what Waldner does when someone is far off from the table and he wants to drop the ball short.
You should really watch a lot of waldner videos and learn from his versatile skill set. He is my idol. I worship him.

Pandaknight wrote: Skyline wrote: If it's too high arcing just smash it, especially with the forehand it's quite easy. If it's low use a loose wrist and block it off the bounce. +1

its often very tricky especially when opponent
keeps varying the amount of spin
its not easy to do but taking the ball almost off the bounce and
closing the bat angle almost horizontal at times

Thanks

Shall try my best to hang on

cheers
(still aching like hell from all day Vets tournament yesterday!

Skyline wrote: APW46 wrote: Pandaknight wrote: Skyline wrote: If it's too high arcing just smash it, especially with the forehand it's quite easy. If it's low use a loose wrist and block it off the bounce. +1    hey guys, I think you'll find that the depth of the ball you are 'just smashing' is most important in affecting the consistency of what you are pre-determmining is possible. I use high arcing topspin all the time, as long as its deep, it sucks in players such as yourselves everytime, I certainly don't do it to have the ball smashed past me anyway. TT is a game of percentages, I'll give you a 1-3+ success rate any day.  What is 'easy' is any ball, short and high above the net, but x10 in difficulty if it is deep.   yeah I know what you mean, I meant if it's too slow and high then  it can be smashed, but if it's deep and the topspin is very heavy, it's too risky.

tomas.gt wrote: few weeks ago I had troubles with nice high arcing loops. Blocks off the bounce was falling down from my rubber (with high pitched sound from the spinny ball brushing the rubber) and when I waited longer the ball flew away. I did not find the way how to block it effectively. I have never seen so spinny loops, being relatively slow at the same time (produced with long fluent movement of arm and body). In that case it was better to take the risk and try to kill it. Even with low succes rate.

This is what I run into against 2 different players. Very slow, fairly deep (within 6 inches of endline) spin loops.

I simply cannot block them consistently; and when I manage to, it produces a weak ball that can be attacked.

I don't want to re-loop (that's simply too advanced) - but playing the passive block seems like a recipe for failure.

Heck, I feel more comfortable CHOPPING it back deep (at least then I can try to re-use their topspin as underspin and give them fits).

APW - if I understand what you are saying:

-a smash (or fast drive) against this deep very spinny ball is a low percentage shot
-the ones that i succeed at are lower spin
-i need to learn to block them

what sort of block (passive, active, drop shot) should i work on? should i try and re-topspin or produce a deadball with my block?

relax...

Why don't you just practice with these 1500-1800 players and just let them loop while you block it back? I'm sure you'll find the feel more quickly than us trying to explain the mechanics.

Also, if what you say about your countering being true, then by all means stick with it. More often than not players, even 2000+ ones, are too passive in their block, having been rewarded by it from playing against relatively lower levels players who are likely to miss follow up attacks. If you can make the aggressive block or counter-hit into a point-winning shot, embrace it.

There is a dedicated lesson on the topic on pingskill.com - it may be of some help: http://www.pingskills.com/table-tennis/counter-spinny-topspin.php