Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Another Euro vs Chinese Loop Question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Another Euro vs Chinese Loop Question
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Another Euro vs Chinese Loop Question
    Posted: 02/01/2010 at 2:19am

Why can't you hit a forehand loop with typical Chinese rubber (tacky/hard sponge) with a Euro style technique? (or maybe you can with minor modifications)

Some possibilities I thought of include:
1. Shorter lever arm with the elbow tucked in (Euro style) can not produce the same racket speed as the Chinese extended arm technique.
 
2. Some bio-mechanical factor keeps the Euro stroke from following the same swing plane as can be followed with the Chinese technique
 
3. Some bio-mechanical factor keeps the racket angle from being the same in the Euro stroke than what is used in the Chinese technique.
 
 
Seems like the Euro style allows for enough racket speed, swing plane variations and racket angle control that you could get a match to what is being done with the Chinese technique.
 
Conversely, why can't you use the Chinese technique to forehand loop with Euro rubbers?
 
Finally, is it more likely to be successful trying to use Euro technique with Chinese rubber or trying to use Chinese technique with Euro rubber.
 
I can see the differences in the body positions between the techniques, but right before, during, and just after contact the two techniques look remarkably similar to me.
 
Mark
 
 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Reinecke View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 2:22am
I don't think it's a question of if you "can" or "can't" perform either loop stroke with any kind of rubber, I think it is a question of efficiency. Chinese rubber is probably more effective to compliment a Chinese loop stroke, and it's the same way for Euro rubber.
Mizutani Jun ST     
Tenergy 64       
Tenergy 64
Back to Top
manyaku88 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/01/2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 259 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manyaku88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 2:51am
"Why can't you hit a forehand loop with typical Chinese rubber (tacky/hard sponge) with a Euro style technique?"

the answer is in the question, because it's tacky and hard sponge the ball goes to the net, and if you adjust you'll just get crappy shots anyway

from MY experience your more likely to be able to hit a chinese loop with a euro rubber than the other way around

look at kreanga using Bryce with speed glue with his arm fully extended

but like reinecke said, it's all about efficiency and what suits you best
Blade: Bty BalsaCarbo X5 FL

FH Bty Tenergy 05 2.1

BH: Palio Aeolus 45* 2.2
Back to Top
Rack View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 3:54pm
Because the stroke is completely different.  Euro uses more of an upwards stroke to get as much mechanical spin as possible with the softer sponges.  You try that with a Chinese rubber and all you will get is a "topsheet" brush... spinny at times but no real power or speed with the lack of consistency of either netting alot or going long off the table since you're relying almost purely on the topsheet to produce all the spin to get it in.  This is why most Euro rubber users with Euro stroke who go to Chinese rubbers will feel that the spin is higher but also think that the rubber is much slower and has no power.  It's because of the Euro stroke not fitting the Chinese rubber.
Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)

FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H

BH - Tenergy 64 2.1
Back to Top
the-mezz View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/28/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the-mezz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 4:32pm
After having used Chinese rubber for a good while, I've adopted somewhat of a hybrid stroke for my FH loop. My elbow remains somewhat tucked in (euro), but the stroke is much longer and more forward oriented. The more follow through and longer I make the stroke, the more success I have using chinese rubber.

IMO I like the Chinese technique for creating spin more than the mechanical grip of euro. I feel like it has a broader spectrum of possible shots and levels of spin created.
Offensive CR WRB
H3 Neo 2.1
Gambler Aces PRO 2.15
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:15pm
Reinicke wrote:
 
 Chinese rubber is probably more effective to compliment a Chinese loop stroke, and it's the same way for Euro rubber.
 
 
My question is what in terms of racket angle, racket speed, swing plane, etc makes the Chinese more effective with Chinese rubber and why can't you duplicate the racket angle, racket speed, swing plane (etc) of a Chinese loop from the Euro form?
 
I watch Timo Boll on video and he hits loops with lots of different swing planes and racket angles depending on the speed, type of spin, and amount of spin on the incoming ball.  For example, could it be possible that his stroke mechanics for hitting dead ball loops with Euro rubber (less up and more forward) would be perfect for hitting underspin balls if he had Chinese rubber.
 
I am not saying it would work, but I would like to know what it is exactly that a Euro style looper can't do that a Chinese style looper can.
 
Mark
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:21pm
Rack,
 
When you watch Euro loopers they use all different kinds of strokes for loops against different type of incoming spin.  If as you say the stroke is more upward what keeps a Euro looper with a Chinese rubber on his blade from hitting a more forward stroke for instance using his more foreward stroke that he would have used against topspin for looping against light underspin with the Chinese rubber on the racket.
 
I see lots of variations in the swings of Euro loopers as the type of ball coming at them changes.  If they have the ability to vary their swing for different types of incoming spin, why can't they vary their swing for having a different kind of rubber on the blade.
 
Mark
Back to Top
Reinecke View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:25pm
Can't help you there. I am not a Coach of a European National Team or a Chinese one, if I was both I'm sure I could tell you the exact differences, but other than that I just don't know.

Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I am not saying it would work, but I would like to know what it is exactly that a Euro style looper can't do that a Chinese style looper can.


ummm, slam without twiddling lol? I doubt there is anything one can do that the other can't, like was set at first, it is probably only what is most effective for each stroke.
Mizutani Jun ST     
Tenergy 64       
Tenergy 64
Back to Top
Reinecke View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

If they have the ability to vary their swing for different types of incoming spin, why can't they vary their swing for having a different kind of rubber on the blade.
�

Mark


They can, that's what we are saying, but it will probably be less effective than it would be playing with a rubber that matched their looping style.
Mizutani Jun ST     
Tenergy 64       
Tenergy 64
Back to Top
Rack View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Rack,
 
When you watch Euro loopers they use all different kinds of strokes for loops against different type of incoming spin.  If as you say the stroke is more upward what keeps a Euro looper with a Chinese rubber on his blade from hitting a more forward stroke for instance using his more foreward stroke that he would have used against topspin for looping against light underspin with the Chinese rubber on the racket.
 
I see lots of variations in the swings of Euro loopers as the type of ball coming at them changes.  If they have the ability to vary their swing for different types of incoming spin, why can't they vary their swing for having a different kind of rubber on the blade.
 
Mark
 
As Reinecke said, sure they can, but their style isn't optimized for it.  Chinese stroke uses a full arm concept that the euro strokes don't use.  Also the basic chinese stroke is pretty standard for all kinds of hits.  For example with a Chinese stroke, one could drive underspin almost exactly like driving a topspin shot.  There is no real up stroke for the chinese form anymore using their modern techniques.  Everything is a driving forward stroke unless they are trying to do some weak spin only safety shot.  As you can see with Euro, they switch from upwards for underspin to forward/upwards for topspin.  Also the Euro rubbers generate power much more easier due to the softer sponges while you need to generate alot of body/arm/wrist power depending on the situation using Chinese rubbers.  If you've ever felt the difference, if you bounce a ball on a Euro rubber it'll spring off with no effort.  You do the same with a hard 40+ degree chinese rubber it'll maybe bounce once and start to die which is especially true when the Chinese rubber is heavily tuned.  If you don't hit the ball hard enough with Chinese rubber, it'll just die and net.
 
Also the concept of getting dwell time is a little different.  As you said, Euro strokes can drive balls with closed angles trying to brush the ball into the sponge as long as possible using the mechanical spin hence the more upwards stroke.  The Chinese stroke also employs closed angles but mostly in counter rallies. Most of the time it starts open around 80-90 degrees and on contact of hitting the ball into the hard sponge they close the blade using the tack to "hold" the ball to catapult it where they want using the forward follow through.  Thus the stroke and the way they contact the ball is vastly different.
Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)

FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H

BH - Tenergy 64 2.1
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:13pm
Rack wrote:
 
There is no real up stroke for the chinese form anymore using their modern techniques.  Everything is a driving forward stroke unless they are trying to do some weak spin only safety shot
 
 
What do the Chinese change in the stroke when looping incoming balls with underspin vs topspin?  One of the articles in the USATT magazine talked about them continually varying the swing plane based the incoming ball spin and distance from the table.  Are you saying they always keep the same swing plane but change something else like speed, racket angle, etc.
 
Also were you saying that they intitally contact the ball with one racket angle and in the short "dwell time" change the racket angle before the ball leaves the racket?  Or is the racket angle being changed as it approaches the ball, during contact, and after contact so that there has to be some angle change while the ball is still on the racket?  The second idea seems like really difficult timing, but the first sounds impossible. 
 
I think you said something about intitially contact at 80 to 90 deg.  How much would be a typical angle change during the dwell time.
 
 
Mark
 
Back to Top
ohhgourami View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/12/2008
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 2341 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Rack Rack wrote:

As Reinecke said, sure they can, but their style isn't optimized for it.  Chinese stroke uses a full arm concept that the euro strokes don't use.  Also the basic chinese stroke is pretty standard for all kinds of hits.  For example with a Chinese stroke, one could drive underspin almost exactly like driving a topspin shot.  There is no real up stroke for the chinese form anymore using their modern techniques.  Everything is a driving forward stroke unless they are trying to do some weak spin only safety shot.  As you can see with Euro, they switch from upwards for underspin to forward/upwards for topspin.  Also the Euro rubbers generate power much more easier due to the softer sponges while you need to generate alot of body/arm/wrist power depending on the situation using Chinese rubbers.  If you've ever felt the difference, if you bounce a ball on a Euro rubber it'll spring off with no effort.  You do the same with a hard 40+ degree chinese rubber it'll maybe bounce once and start to die which is especially true when the Chinese rubber is heavily tuned.  If you don't hit the ball hard enough with Chinese rubber, it'll just die and net.
 
Also the concept of getting dwell time is a little different.  As you said, Euro strokes can drive balls with closed angles trying to brush the ball into the sponge as long as possible using the mechanical spin hence the more upwards stroke.  The Chinese stroke also employs closed angles but mostly in counter rallies. Most of the time it starts open around 80-90 degrees and on contact of hitting the ball into the hard sponge they close the blade using the tack to "hold" the ball to catapult it where they want using the forward follow through.  Thus the stroke and the way they contact the ball is vastly different.

+1 Clap
We've been giving away too much of our secrets haven't we? Wink
Custom Walnut 7-ply
DHS H3 Provincial untuned 40°
BTY T64
210g
Back to Top
Rack View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Rack wrote:
 
There is no real up stroke for the chinese form anymore using their modern techniques.  Everything is a driving forward stroke unless they are trying to do some weak spin only safety shot
 
 
What do the Chinese change in the stroke when looping incoming balls with underspin vs topspin?  One of the articles in the USATT magazine talked about them continually varying the swing plane based the incoming ball spin and distance from the table.  Are you saying they always keep the same swing plane but change something else like speed, racket angle, etc.
 
Also were you saying that they intitally contact the ball with one racket angle and in the short "dwell time" change the racket angle before the ball leaves the racket?  Or is the racket angle being changed as it approaches the ball, during contact, and after contact so that there has to be some angle change while the ball is still on the racket?  The second idea seems like really difficult timing, but the first sounds impossible. 
 
I think you said something about intitially contact at 80 to 90 deg.  How much would be a typical angle change during the dwell time.
 
 
Mark
 
 
Most of the time it changes the moment after you feel contact unless you're countering against top, then you can drive/block with straight up 60 degrees.  Swing planes can vary depending on spin and height of the ball.  Would take too long to explain everything.  However, it's definately not impossible, it just takes a high amount of feel/timing/muscle memory which takes ALOT of drilling if it doesn't come naturally to you.  Hence why I never recommend fast/hard blades to people learning due to the lack of feel.
Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)

FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H

BH - Tenergy 64 2.1
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:41pm
Rack and others,
 
There was this super-slow motion youtube video of a chopper mentioned in another thread.  He is hitting against a looper and you get super slow motion of that swing.  I think I can see what Rack is talking about in this video.   I never saw it in even the regular slow motion videos I saw before.
 
The video is at
 
 
 
Rack, do you think this is a good example of chinese looping technique?
 
Mark
Back to Top
Rack View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/13/2008
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 7:57pm
Not really... not to mention its a Butterfly video.  Watch a Ma Long video against Joo Se Hyuk.  Notice his stroke will always go very forward and not straight up even against chops.  Only time he goes upwards is when he does a spinny safety loop.  Then watch a Timo Boll video vs Joo Se Hyuk.  Notice Timo's stroke mainly goes upwards.
Yasaka Ma Lin YEO (1st) , Yasaka Extra CPEN (2nd)

FH - H3 NEO Pro 2.15 40H

BH - Tenergy 64 2.1
Back to Top
Reinecke View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 9:01pm
it was a sweet video though
Mizutani Jun ST     
Tenergy 64       
Tenergy 64
Back to Top
spitfire View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 10:09pm
Where is that Maze vs Malong side to side compareson video?
Back to Top
Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/15/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3962 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by spitfire spitfire wrote:

Where is that Maze vs Malong side to side compareson video?
 
 
Back to Top
Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/15/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3962 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 10:21pm

Also, perhaps this link may clarify the situation further... or confuse it further. Who knows?

 
 
Back to Top
Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/15/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3962 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 10:28pm
And maybe this:
 
 
(Did someone already post this? It seems like I ran across it today somewhere...)
Back to Top
spitfire View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2010 at 11:23pm
either style will take you to the top if you master them. Go after one and stick with it. It's easier to find a euro style coach in most places around the world, and euro style equipment are widely avaliable (more expensive too).
Back to Top
Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/15/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3962 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:10am
Originally posted by spitfire spitfire wrote:

either style will take you to the top if you master them...
 
True... but one style is ugly, and one style is so pretty. Wink
 
 
Back to Top
spitfire View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by spitfire spitfire wrote:

either style will take you to the top if you master them...
 
True... but one style is ugly, and one style is so pretty. Wink
 
 
Loop like a salute is so pretty, i agreeWinkWinkWink
just messing around
Back to Top
theman View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/22/2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7234 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 5:07am
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh Anton Chigurh wrote:

Originally posted by spitfire spitfire wrote:

either style will take you to the top if you master them...
 
True... but one style is ugly, and one style is so pretty. Wink
 
 


cmon anton, look at alexei smirnov, hes a russian ballerina on court!
i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy
Back to Top
dr Loop View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 07/23/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 89 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr Loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:44am
http://www.youtube.com/user/WeiTTTube#p/u/2/locofduK2dQ ma long standing next to maze
Back to Top
tpgh2k View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/14/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2103 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 9:44am
fine i'll put this one to rest since i've used all 3 types of rubbers....japanese, euro, and chinese.

the swing plane that mark refers to is something that every player must be constantly aware of when playing no matter what kind of rubber you use (yes even LP).

if you tried doing a 'euro loop' with a chinese rubber...the ball flies past the table. if you do a chinese style loop with a euro rubber ie: joola express or tibhar sinus or whatever....you hear a slight chirp from the rubber and the ball flops on the floor at your feet.

pros of chinese rubber: short game and over the table loops.

pros of euro: easy power and your arm doesn't get tired after hours of playing (compared to using chinese)

against underspin, you can hit through the ball, you just need to know how. with euro rubbers, they basically do swing up and forward. with chinese, you can open the angle a bit and carry the ball forward.
www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH

Back to Top
e1itepirate View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/12/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote e1itepirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:01pm
whats a good beginner rubber to learn the chinese loop? I think the neo series are slightly too fast to learn.
Back to Top
tpgh2k View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/14/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2103 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:17pm
haifu blue whale 2 37 degrees. you can get the untuned version and it'll be a great way to learn. it's still plenty fast when u need it to be.
www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
Timo Boll Spirit FL
H3 Blue Sponge Black FH
Tenergy 64 Red BH

Back to Top
e1itepirate View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/12/2009
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote e1itepirate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:30pm
i tried blue whale 2 untuned but i thought it was a little too fast. it was 39 degree though. would 37 make that much of a difference?
Back to Top
spitfire View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2010 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by e1itepirate e1itepirate wrote:

whats a good beginner rubber to learn the chinese loop? I think the neo series are slightly too fast to learn.
729
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.