Asian Cup 2022, Bangkok, 11/17-19

Ichiro Ogimura probably was Japan's first #1 player (having kept that rank for a long, long time).

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Edited by NextLevel - 11/21/2022 at 12:17am

Strictly speaking, 佐藤博治/SATOH Hiroji was the first-ever WR1 player from Japan in 1952 (1952/9/1). 小野誠治/ONO Seiji is the last WR1 player from Japan in 1979/7 and 1980/7. 大川とみ/OKAWA Tomi (incorrectly as OKAWA Tomie in the English source) is the first-ever WR1 female player from Japan in 1956 (1957/1/23). 小和田敏子/KOWADA Toshiko is the last WR1 female player from Japan in 1969 and 1970 (incorrectly as KOWADA Koshiko in 1970 in the English source). Back then, World Champion = WR1.
Source:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120120122359/http://www.ittf.com/museum/consolidatedrankings.pdf
https://rallys.online/forplayers/191103wr-japan/

Ito (WR2, 2020/4) and now Harimoto (WR2, 2022/11) are the closest to becoming WR1 players from Japan after the computerized World Rankings started in 1991/10.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170107100812/http://www.old.ittf.com/museum/ITTF-Ranking-1987-2000.pdf

Hurricane4 #20Sponge wrote: mykonos96 wrote: BRS wrote: mykonos96 wrote: blahness wrote: Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers) Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players. I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG. If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.   That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches. Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit.  besides Fan, Wang and ML, literally name 7 other current players you would consider to be better than Harimoto lol

mykonos96 wrote: Hurricane4 #20Sponge wrote: mykonos96 wrote: BRS wrote: mykonos96 wrote: blahness wrote: Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers) Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players. I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG. If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.   That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches. Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit.  besides Fan, Wang and ML, literally name 7 other current players you would consider to be better than Harimoto lol Your question is nonsense because better is not the same as high ranked. WCQ is better. Now that WR matters for you  Tell me. Why HT has better ranking than WCQ if WCQ has defeated  HT more times?

mykonos96 wrote: NextLevel wrote: mykonos96 wrote: NextLevel wrote: Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing. Posting for a (former) friend... If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ? How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger? Guo yue was top 10 at 14 .well If you re top 10 and 8 years old player is just top 10  You just want to praise HT   I change non sense for irrelevant and aside that nonsense is not an insult well if you want to take some action against me because my posts is not what you want to read is just personal . So in your argument a 16 year old 8th ranked players is better than a 24 year old 8th ranked player?

Off the top of my head, Harimoto is the only player outside China to have taken out core CNT members multiple times at such a young age, namely ML, ZJK, FZD, LGY, LJK, and WCQ. XX is the only core CNT member to have 100% win rate against Harimoto. Keep in mind Harimoto first won against the ones above in 2018 and 2019, when he was only 14/15, a feat not equaled by anyone else (not even Hirano and Ito could compare). He just turned 19 roughly 5 months ago. He will only be 21, 25 and 29 at Paris 2024, Los Angeles 2028 and Brisbane 2032, respectively. He's effectively at the dawn of his career, despite having been on the circuit for 7 years already.

Once he overcomes the issue around European players/lower-ranked players, he will be hard to stop.

On the issue of talent among WCQ, LYJ and Harimoto:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91735&PID=1129380&title=european-summer-series-2022-7-1122#1129380
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86149&PID=1069437&title=2019-japan-open-june-1216#1069437

Edited by zeio - 11/21/2022 at 3:22pm

Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Edited by NextLevel - 11/22/2022 at 12:11am

https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/43336

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zeio wrote: Ito (WR2, 2020/4) and now Harimoto (WR2, 2022/11) are the closest to becoming WR1 players from Japan after the computerized World Rankings started in 1991/10. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170107100812/http://www.old.ittf.com/museum/ITTF-Ranking-1987-2000.pdf

NextLevel wrote: Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them! Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year? Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.

NextLevel wrote: mykonos96 wrote: NextLevel wrote: Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them! Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year? Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch. When was the last time HT defeated WCQ FAN ML? If HT defeats them again in short term then it will prove I m wrong. The point here is that you guys are annoyed because I dont think HT is  a true Top 10 Would you guys bet if HT can beat the top CNT? What happened to HT after worlds when he lost again to WCQ? Why it took several years HT to beat fan and wang again?  I am not sure what your question is or what you are trying to say.   Anyone can tell by googling that Harimoto beat Fan and Wang Chuqin in October in China.  Maybe you are asking when Harimoto will beat them next? I am not annoyed by anything.  In your specific case, you like to promote Chinese players and put down the level of any player that is not Chinese for the most part.  So when people realize this, it is much easier to understand how to read your posts.  You have done it for years, but not everyone has read your posts for years or knows the pattern so they can take discussions with you more seriously.  I am okay with anything as long as people are not rude about it. Obviously, when people say controversial/dubious/wrong things on the internet, people try to correct them.  I think your position that Harimoto's ranking is inflated is quite reasonable.  I think it is wrong, but reasonable people can be wrong all the time.   No doubt WCQ and LGY were exhausted following the extensive Chinese national championships (WCQ had played a lot prior to that, while LGY reached the finals in Teams and Singles and won Doubles).  Ultimately, WCQ lost to a player that Harimoto beat convincingly.  However one cuts it, Harimoto is a pretty strong player and everyone is entitled to opinions about how strong he really is - the opinions won't change his match results or his  ITTF world ranking.

Neither Calderano nor Dima has ever beaten Wang Chuqin or Ma Long.  Dima I believe has about 3-4 wins vs Fan over many matches since 2013.

I don't think there's a reasonable argument for Harimoto to be ranked outside the top 10. There's a strong case that he's legitimate top 5. Here's the current top 10 according to Ratings Central, which takes into account bad losses as well as good wins: