Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Backhand problems
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Backhand problems

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The old one has a stiffer wrist than the new one, so I don't agree with you it has more rotation, and arguably the new one is still too stiff.  But you know what you are doing, I am just pointing out the technical limitation that would make it easier for someone at a higher level to play against.
To ensure that the old one has more spin check following:
Old one - is "classic" - supination in wrist  - so extra spin produced with + of supination; Thus the ball flies back from the RB worse - additional arc makes ball to fly more to bottom and returns back not so stably - worse for the exercise - but does not matter - just shows us that it has more spin.

New one - is "modern" - pronation in wrist - no extra spin produced; Thus the ball flies from RB better  - as no much spin - the arc does not go down till the RB and thus the ball flies back better with less underspin.

About too stiff - I constantly change the grip for proper situations to have enough amplitude to make stroke - when need banana - make more BH-ish grip, when attack from FH - change it to be more FH-ish.

If you check the game - will see that it seems in game that it's too loose actually :)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It's a good backhand but your wrist is too tight.  So you need to make everything happen with your muscles and that will make your stroke more stable in matches but will limit your ability to add heavy spin.  That's my opinion.
Hello, yes - I sold my spin in sake of stability, and tempo - the shot with less spin is much shorter in amplitude and allows to return back into ready position and play faster. 

I did not do video with previous technics against topspin but just compare 2 BH topspins against underspin (the RB in this case does not have grip and returns back underspin from topspin (like longpips or antispin))
Old approach:
I like more new one - even though it is less rotative - it's still pretty stable and fast.

And game is game- in game I will of course adjust :) 
My training of serve + attack when there is no partner (against RB) 
The old one has a stiffer wrist than the new one, so I don't agree with you it has more rotation, and arguably the new one is still too stiff.  But you know what you are doing, I am just pointing out the technical limitation that would make it easier for someone at a higher level to play against.

Edited by NextLevel - 12/13/2022 at 7:53pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Interesting to see Alex Yao playing again. One of the top juniors in the USA about a decade ago and then disappeared from the map. Doesn't look like he is 2500 level anymore, but has he started playing/coaching again?
Mb he is not playing on 25 hundred right now - but still is much better than me :) 
He moves and plays faster, has better touch, good reflexes as he basically trained since childhood while I started to train at the age of 32 :) .

Not sure if he is back to trainings, hope yes. 
And it is good that he came to our club - we adjusted to each other too much so currently changes started to happen.
Back to Top
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It's a good backhand but your wrist is too tight.  So you need to make everything happen with your muscles and that will make your stroke more stable in matches but will limit your ability to add heavy spin.  That's my opinion.
Hello, yes - I sold my spin in sake of stability, and tempo - the shot with less spin is much shorter in amplitude and allows to return back into ready position and play faster. 

I did not do video with previous technics against topspin but just compare 2 BH topspins against underspin (the RB in this case does not have grip and returns back underspin from topspin (like longpips or antispin))
Old approach:
I like more new one - even though it is less rotative - it's still pretty stable and fast.

And game is game- in game I will of course adjust :) 
My training of serve + attack when there is no partner (against RB) 
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Hi Brands.
I have similar problems in terms of not enough consistency of BH and not enough speed in shots, 
and it's mostly shown with much better players than me as they are faster.
With close to my level of game (those guys are 2150, 2200 usatt) I have not so many issues with my BH as they give me more time to be able to think
 and I still can make pretty good shots from both BH and FH :) :) :) 
Example of my game (I am in black t-shirt, my opponent in beige t-shirt is 2500 usatt which is much better than me  in this game I lost 9,7,7).
One of such moments on 10-37 - He serves, I am receiving back with rotative BH and move to possible position where I could hit.
But I am unable to hit as my mindset is "just return back" instead of "make a quality shot - you are in proper position".
It's bad and it should be just well trained and set to reflexes - as in game not always you have much time to think.

To achieve those things - have faster BH, get more consistency and proper mindset for good shots, I started to make exercises to be able to hit with my BH from distance.
I am using return board (as do not have practice partners as we 99.9% of time play in club and not train) in my practices.
The exercise is simple - set up the board more than 1 meter away from the table and try to make good series of BH topspins(or at all shots) against it.

Short video of my trainings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izIssWyUWHo

So just train with stronger hits in one direction, try to keep one and the same pace, try to keep one and the same tempo, make video of your trainings and make little adjustments.
For you may be it will be more difficult to hit to 1 meter away RB, as it requires good physics so just use 1 foot distance.


Interesting to see Alex Yao playing again. One of the top juniors in the USA about a decade ago and then disappeared from the map. Doesn't look like he is 2500 level anymore, but has he started playing/coaching again?
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14838
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Hi Brands.
I have similar problems in terms of not enough consistency of BH and not enough speed in shots, 
and it's mostly shown with much better players than me as they are faster.
With close to my level of game (those guys are 2150, 2200 usatt) I have not so many issues with my BH as they give me more time to be able to think
 and I still can make pretty good shots from both BH and FH :) :) :) 
Example of my game (I am in black t-shirt, my opponent in beige t-shirt is 2500 usatt which is much better than me  in this game I lost 9,7,7).
One of such moments on 10-37 - He serves, I am receiving back with rotative BH and move to possible position where I could hit.
But I am unable to hit as my mindset is "just return back" instead of "make a quality shot - you are in proper position".
It's bad and it should be just well trained and set to reflexes - as in game not always you have much time to think.

To achieve those things - have faster BH, get more consistency and proper mindset for good shots, I started to make exercises to be able to hit with my BH from distance.
I am using return board (as do not have practice partners as we 99.9% of time play in club and not train) in my practices.
The exercise is simple - set up the board more than 1 meter away from the table and try to make good series of BH topspins(or at all shots) against it.

Short video of my trainings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izIssWyUWHo

So just train with stronger hits in one direction, try to keep one and the same pace, try to keep one and the same tempo, make video of your trainings and make little adjustments.
For you may be it will be more difficult to hit to 1 meter away RB, as it requires good physics so just use 1 foot distance.


It's a good backhand but your wrist is too tight.  So you need to make everything happen with your muscles and that will make your stroke more stable in matches but will limit your ability to add heavy spin.  That's my opinion.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2022 at 6:16pm
Hi Brands.
I have similar problems in terms of not enough consistency of BH and not enough speed in shots, 
and it's mostly shown with much better players than me as they are faster.
With close to my level of game (those guys are 2150, 2200 usatt) I have not so many issues with my BH as they give me more time to be able to think
 and I still can make pretty good shots from both BH and FH :) :) :) 
Example of my game (I am in black t-shirt, my opponent in beige t-shirt is 2500 usatt which is much better than me  in this game I lost 9,7,7).
One of such moments on 10-37 - He serves, I am receiving back with rotative BH and move to possible position where I could hit.
But I am unable to hit as my mindset is "just return back" instead of "make a quality shot - you are in proper position".
It's bad and it should be just well trained and set to reflexes - as in game not always you have much time to think.

To achieve those things - have faster BH, get more consistency and proper mindset for good shots, I started to make exercises to be able to hit with my BH from distance.
I am using return board (as do not have practice partners as we 99.9% of time play in club and not train) in my practices.
The exercise is simple - set up the board more than 1 meter away from the table and try to make good series of BH topspins(or at all shots) against it.

Short video of my trainings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izIssWyUWHo

So just train with stronger hits in one direction, try to keep one and the same pace, try to keep one and the same tempo, make video of your trainings and make little adjustments.
For you may be it will be more difficult to hit to 1 meter away RB, as it requires good physics so just use 1 foot distance.

Back to Top
brands77 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/22/2022
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brands77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2022 at 4:46am
Yes, it is something I have considered, but I am trying to get my technique back first and then when I feel comfortable I might try it.
However, no one I know plays with short pips so I haven't been able to borrow a bat and see how they play.
What would anyone suggest as a cheap intro to short pips that I could try to get an idea of how they play? I was thinking of putting it  on an old blade and experimenting.
Back to Top
LOG1C1AN View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/22/2013
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LOG1C1AN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2022 at 11:59pm
You might consider trying short pips on your BH to facilitate your preference to hit through the ball and learn to punch it.
Back to Top
brands77 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/22/2022
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brands77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2022 at 3:37am
Ok I have had some time to digest all of the advice and I've had a couple of session since. I thought I would give a progress update to let those of you who took the time to give me help, know how it worked out.
I tried pretty much all of the advice and all helped to some degree and I am a bit more consistent, but mostly more confident on my backhand now.
Snapping through and punching the shot has worked for me off the table, but not so much close to the table.
I've made a more conscious effort to move and get my feet into position too and that has worked - I think age and laziness had caught up with me. Mostly I am more aware of when I don't get my feet in the right place and am figuring out how to get them sorted. It is taking time, but I am getting there.
I also by chance started to bend my knees much more, which has helped both my bh and fh topspin.
One final thing, as any bad workman, I was looking at my "tools" to blame. I thought that my rubber was too fast and didn't suit me. The problem was basically my technique, I have got more used to my bat and rubber, it's not too fast I just needed to get better!
I know these would be obvious to pretty much all, but as pingpongdaddy said it's been a long time and you forget a lot. It was very useful to get back to basics and getting advice from the forum has helped me do that.
Thank you all.
Back to Top
brands77 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/22/2022
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brands77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/2022 at 6:23am
1dennistt and smackman,
Thank you for the sound advice. I really hadn't thought of filming, but it does make sense and is pretty easy now and yes, my footwork is nowhere near as fast as it was, so I will make a conscious effort to think about it. I just know my backhand does feel right when I strike the ball and it isn't playing the way it used to.
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 3264
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2022 at 3:36pm
Hi Brands, I notice older players just don't move the same and therefor can't do their best shots as much

maybe getting advice from locals or getting a coach to help you
Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website
Back to Top
1dennistt View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/03/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2022 at 2:49pm
Best bet is to have someone film you while playing, that way you can see how you actually strike the ball.  I know it helped my brother work through some issues he was having.  In some cases what we think we are doing and what happens while playing are "somewhat" different.  It was in his case, and once he saw what was happening it became easier to make adjustments.  They say seeing is believing.

You don't need anything fancy to do this, just someone willing to hold a phone (or camera) while you practice.  Some controlled play where you script out what you are going to do (pushing or hitting for instance), and also some random play where you can see what happens in more of a game setting.

Let us know how you progress!


Edited by 1dennistt - 10/05/2022 at 2:49pm
Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
Back to Top
brands77 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/22/2022
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brands77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/03/2022 at 7:39am
Hi GSOM and Pingpongpaddy,
Thank you both for the advice.
GSOM I have an Avalox all round blade, so I hope that isn't too fast for me. My forehand plays fine with it.
Pingpongpaddy, I played last night and tried to put your advice into action. I'm not entirely sure I was doing it correctly, but tried to hit through the ball a bit more. I think it may be working, but as you say time and practice will tell.
Thanks again both for taking the time to reply to me.
Back to Top
pingpongpaddy View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 06/27/2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 11:15am
hi brands
after 40 years the ball is a different size
thats what cauzes yr timing problem
keep practicing and maybe punch the ball a bit more
good luck
inactive dotec carbokev

yin he galaxy 1 p
ly

FH moristo sp AX MAX

bh moristo sp ax max
Back to Top
GSOM_GSOM11 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/09/2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 296
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GSOM_GSOM11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 6:06pm
Maybe your new blade is too fast and bouncy. An old premade bat is usually pretty slow and helps you control your pushes and chops and flat kills.
What blade do you use now?
Back to Top
brands77 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/22/2022
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brands77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2022 at 4:49am
I am returning to TT after a long time off. I've been back about 6 months now, after 40+ years, with a short 2 year stint back about 15 years ago and am really enjoying it.
I would like some advice please.
I can't get my backhand right. It pops up high or long from my pushes and my attempted loops. About 33% of the time it works, but mostly it doesn't.
I used to have a decent backhand, I was/am a pretty flat hitter, and could normally play this shot reliably, I could also chop and push solidly.
Now I can't get it right. I like to play close to the table and my problems are worse when I am forced back to play at a distance, my backhand is even more inconsistent from there.
What is confusing me is that, I recently found my old bat a pre-made Friendship 729 one with Friendship II rubber on it. This rubber is over 15 years old, it is dead and was stuck in the garage hidden for quite a lot of the intervening time. I can play my backhand much better with this than my new bat, which had DHS G888 on it and more recently Giant Dragon Superspin. I don't think my problems are purely down to my rubber, but I think it may also not be helping.
Sure I am never gonna set the world alight with my tt, but I would like to at least get back to near the standard I used to be as a kid.
I would be really grateful for any tips for me to try and at least improve my backhand problems.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.