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Best Affordable Two-Wing Looper Set-up?

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    Posted: 11/05/2020 at 9:13am
One of my hitting partners is using a sub-par set-up and needs new gear. He's a 1600+ level two-wing looper with lots of potential to creep up towards 2000 with better stuff and hard work.

  • Good, standard blade under $100?
  • Rubbers that are less than $50 each?

Standard, popular gear . . . nothing boutique, odd, etc.

Thanks!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2020 at 9:40am
1600 USATT?
I would say Donic Persson Powerallround or Stiga Allround Evolution with both sides either Vega Intro or Gewo Neoflexx 48 if available.
I would even say Mark V on both sides might be enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2020 at 10:17am
Xiom Offensive S and two slabs of Vega Pro.  Or Vega X.  Or Vega Japan.  Alternative: Yasaka Sweden Extra, Yasaka Rakza 7.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 3:23am
Hi,

I'd highly recommend the following : 

Blades (Under $100)

  • DHS Hurricane 301 ($65 - $75) .. It's an excellent value-for-money ALC Blade. Consider it as a toned-down version of the popular Hurricane Long 5
  • Tibhar Paul Drinkhall Carbon ($100 - $115) - This ones is wee bit over $100, but one of the best blades, I've played with in recent times.. 
Rubbers (Under $50)

  • Andro Rsanater 47 or 50 ($48) 
  • Xiom Omega Pro VII ($50 - $55) .. Omega Pro V Should be cheaper, but there are a few differences between the VII and V .. I prefer V. 
  • Nittaku Fastarc G-1 ($40 - $45)
  • DHS GoldArc 8 ($45 - $48) - Not a widely used rubber, but still a fantastic rubber. It's quite fast.. I found it to be faster than T05, but less springy.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 6:30am
Viscaria with some decent offensive oriented rubbe.r

More than 100 but last blade he will ever need


Edited by Baal - 11/06/2020 at 6:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Veet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Viscaria with some decent offensive oriented rubbe.r

More than 100 but last blade he will ever need

The Tibhar Drinkhall Power Spin Carbon is somewhat on the same lines as the Viscaria and TBALC... 

Another noteworthy blade (I could not remember the name, in my earlier post) is the Donic Ovtcharov True Carbon .. It is, however, a tad faster, and even stiffer than the rest ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 7:45am
Butterfly Mazunov (under $80 for a blade) but make sure it is under 100g in weight.

Then use Fastarc C1 for forehand and backhand (buy from T11 and use 4 for price of 3 for best deal) or C1 on backhand and anything on forehand.  A bit heavy but it will allow you to hit powerful shots and blocks from anywhere in the court while giving you more feedback than the ALC blades.  With the new plastic ball, this blade isn't that much faster than a Viscaria, just more head heavy.

Big smileWink


Edited by NextLevel - 11/06/2020 at 7:46am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 8:42am
Thanks so much. Not to be greedy, but please keep suggestions coming. ;-) This helps so much. As you probably guessed, I'm not a two-winged looper, so I have no hands-on experience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 9:18am
Hi tommyzai,
Sounds crazy :) 
but would recommend actually to have 2 different setups 1 for training - faster.
Blade: Yinhe t11s (19-21$) - with FH/BH: palio CJ 8000 2 side loop biotech 42-44 deg (7-8$) (Overall 33-37$), really fast but consistent blade (I train with that myself)

And one for tournaments - slower.
Blade: XIOM Feel ZX1 (65-70$) - with FH: palio CJ 8000 2 side loop biotech 36-38 deg (7-8$), BH: Xiom Vega euro (27-32$) (Overall 99-120$); Train from time to time and going to play games after lockdown - really good feeling and not so expensive.

If only one setup:
Blade: XIOM Feel ZX1 (65-70$) - with 2 Fastarc C1 (40$) Overall: 145-150$ 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Hi tommyzai,
Sounds crazy :) 
but would recommend actually to have 2 different setups 1 for training - faster.

Not crazy at all. I've trained and competed a lot in my life. I've noticed that most of us play a more careful, conservative, controlled game during matches. For example, when training, I rarely engage in pushing wars. Matches become more surgical IMO . . . or at least in my case.


Edited by tommyzai - 11/06/2020 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 11:22am
Joola Viking (P700 clone still avaliable at JOOLA USA) with Maxxx 450 both sides

Donic Person 7 with Bluefire M2 both sides.

Xiom Zeta Offensive with Vega Vapan both sides.

well, almost every major brand have an affordable thin 7 ply wood with medium hardness tensor.


Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 11:26am
Originally posted by AMonteiro AMonteiro wrote:

Joola Viking (P700 clone still avaliable at JOOLA USA)

Avalox P700? If so, that might work better for me than him . . . stiff and good for pure hitting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMonteiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 12:06pm
It's a matter of reference.. for me, P700 is not sitff or hard.. I used it for many, many years during speed glue times and after glue ban..

Tried to use it couple years ago and, for me (rosewood user) is too soft and quite flexy for a 7 ply nowdays.

Back in 00' or 90'.. it was "stiff and hard" because lots of allwood blades were thin, soft an flexy.. 


Edited by AMonteiro - 11/06/2020 at 12:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 1:51pm
Depending on style, 5-ply, 7-ply, internal or external from Yinhe for $50 or less, Yinhe Sun or Moon or one of the more expensive rubbers (tacky).
So e.g. Yinhe Pro 5W, Sun + Moon, < $50 at princett.com. Invest the difference in tech stocks, then you can upgrade to Tenergy or Dignics in a couple of years.
See the reviews.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 10:01pm
I'd suggest a viscaria as well, one time buy and he'l never be tempted to  ej again! Also, get any two xiom rubbers as well, i find their topsheets a bit less spin sensitive, can help the kid not worry too much abt the incoming spin. Vega pro bh and vega jap fh seems like a good balance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 1:44am
Guys, what's wrong with you? 1600+, which is in my opinion below an intermediate player and you suggest Viscaria or Mazunov?!? 
What happened here?!?! When I was younger, player within this skill range played with All+ blades and Sriver FX, Coppa or Vario Soft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 2:34am
Ingo... do you remember the Benz Verbung where MB had a time sequence of a dude with a son... son so wanted to to drive the family Benz... but daddy kept telling son he is "zu jung"... this keeps up over some years, and now daddy is an old man and son just bought a new Benz and daddy wants to drive... but son shakes keys and says daddy is "zu alt".

Dude, that is you... but do not take much ofense, it also describes me.

I have never supported pundits saying equipment for a TTR 1300 player MUST be such and such All+ blade and medium control oriented rubbers... however, with time, I can see how correct a pundit is when pundit says this setup will better contribute to a newer player's growth.

So I would say Ingo's recommendation of a medium speed blade and control oriented modern rubers is a good recommendation... and that his dislike of faster equipment that has been recommended is very justified. It just isn't the only way.

Sure, a dude can lern with a rocket setup and some rocket setups make doing certain things easier, hence more controlable, but Ingo's recommendation of center everything is good that is will proide the player with feedback when a ball is not well struck and edge the player into constructing points instead of going apeshyt right away.

That recommendation has a lot more power behind it than many realize.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 2:38am
... and in honor of Ingo's spirit, last year, I saw Nittaku Hammond (the OLD kind not glued or boosted) and got a few sheets. It was on my backup racket earlier in 2020... and a very good opponent got me to go for a half long ball that never made it to endline and I literally smashed my bat... went to backup bat with that nice soft control OFF rubber Hammond and was a boss of BH and had a great tourney, I won vs enough 2000 level players to convince me my new rating was not an accident... and I was using something WAY slower than modern rubbers and just nailing it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 4:28am
This has nothing to do with "too young - too old".
I mean, you don't put a 6-year old directly into a Formula 1 race car and say to him: Best you learn directly with the real stuff and it will be much easier to get a fast lap with this in comparison to something smaller and slower".
And just something to think about: I know a lot of those with too fast equipment. Just forget to play some drills with them. Either they will just hit 3 to 4 strokes in a row and then make a mistake because they have no controll over their setup or often those are the type who just want to "finish" the drill with a flashy "big point my material is so cool and fast bling bling" shot which they fail 50% of the time.
And this "faster material is more controllable "bullshit": Does any of you really believe this? C'mon....



Edited by Ingo_Ger - 11/07/2020 at 4:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 5:33am
Imo, with the new abs balls (or similar low spin) balls that are widely used these days, a ply around the speed range of a viscaria( considering most of the viscaria available nowadays aren't as heavy and powerful as the older ones) are not really crazy fast with some med hard rubbers, especially for a 2 winged looper. If the kid has atleast some decent fundamentals or can receive some coaching then a setup like this would even help him keep his stroke compact and avoid tightening up too much while he learns to move and play quicker. 
 However, if the kid doesn't have his fundamentals down yet, and has no scope of receiving some regular coaching, then yeah, a good controlled all-round ply like an all round evolution or a Sweden classic paired with some easy to use med-hard rubbers like vega pro/aurus  or slightly softer like fastarc c1 or vega euro should work well too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 7:28am
Originally posted by Ingo_Ger Ingo_Ger wrote:

This has nothing to do with "too young - too old".
I mean, you don't put a 6-year old directly into a Formula 1 race car and say to him: Best you learn directly with the real stuff and it will be much easier to get a fast lap with this in comparison to something smaller and slower".
And just something to think about: I know a lot of those with too fast equipment. Just forget to play some drills with them. Either they will just hit 3 to 4 strokes in a row and then make a mistake because they have no controll over their setup or often those are the type who just want to "finish" the drill with a flashy "big point my material is so cool and fast bling bling" shot which they fail 50% of the time.
And this "faster material is more controllable "bullshit": Does any of you really believe this? C'mon....

The 8/9 yr old 1600 player in my club uses a Viscaria and did so when he was 1100.  Hope that helps.  The new ABS ball has made everything slower.  It is one thing to speak from theory but I work with players.  I used to play with OFF- blades all the time and tried it after the ABS ball change, with the result that I started putting too much effort for too little reward.  IMO, if you want to make someone use a beginner set up with proper strokes, put on some hybrid or Chinese rubber with tack.   But a Viscaria is roughly the slowest blade that one should use.  I am allergic to ALC blades so I use all wood, but I wouldn't hesitate to put the right kind of player on a Mazunov these days even as a beginner.   I would just put on slower rubber.   But at 1600 with good coaching, a Mazunov is fine.

Slower blades to me are more about short game feel. But Chinese or slower rubber is better for that.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Ingo_Ger Ingo_Ger wrote:

This has nothing to do with "too young - too old".
I mean, you don't put a 6-year old directly into a Formula 1 race car and say to him: Best you learn directly with the real stuff and it will be much easier to get a fast lap with this in comparison to something smaller and slower".
And just something to think about: I know a lot of those with too fast equipment. Just forget to play some drills with them. Either they will just hit 3 to 4 strokes in a row and then make a mistake because they have no controll over their setup or often those are the type who just want to "finish" the drill with a flashy "big point my material is so cool and fast bling bling" shot which they fail 50% of the time.
And this "faster material is more controllable "bullshit": Does any of you really believe this? C'mon....


the race car would still drive fine at controllable and reasonable speeds, you just don't put the 6 year old on a race track and tell them to go 200 mph. so the proper analogy you'd be looking for is that don't put the 6 year up against a 2700 player and ask them to counter loop. and the viscaria is not a formula 1 car, it is really not that hard to control of a blade. i have seen many players go from beginner to advanced level using carbon blades, i am not sure why the common thought on forums is that using a carbon blade as a beginner is cardinal sin


Edited by idk - 11/07/2020 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 3:04pm
If I remember correctly there were some comments that with all wood blades there was more feedback to the player when shots were hit even slightly differently.  So with wood blades, beginners subconscious learning correct stroking was quicker.  

I believe there was some thinking that touch was learned more quickly with wood for the same reason.  The touch learned on the wood supposedly carried over even after switching to carbon.

Have no knowledge to form opinion on either of above.  Just writing some of reasons I remember reading.

Mark 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2020 at 3:24pm
I started to have TT trainings 5 years ago at the age of 32. 
Was total newbie.
In 2 months read articles and saw really experienced guy with TB Alc and t05 and t64.
Wanted such a setup really much and it lasted for 3 more months during which I tried to find according to forums advices something slower, but didn't like it cause thought it was a matter of equipment that my topspin was not powerful enough.
Looking at my hesitation, my coach told me to take that TB Alc and let's start trainings.
I took)))
In 2 years my level grown to something like 2200 in US.
Btw I changed 1 tb Alc to 2 one because broke first))
After that viscaria light and after that trapped to ifl Alc and xiom feel zx1.
So current situation is that I need slower setup just because I can use it in my play style better, not because I had to start with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Ingo_Ger Ingo_Ger wrote:

1600 USATT?
I would say Donic Persson Powerallround or Stiga Allround Evolution with both sides either Vega Intro or Gewo Neoflexx 48 if available.
I would even say Mark V on both sides might be enough.

Have you tried Mark V with the ABS balls?

It simply does not bite the ball the way that it would grab celluloid.

What frequently happens is that you get a lot of medium speed balls that go long because they lack topspin.

I suppose that very refined technique could compensate for the rubber's behavior...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 3:08am
Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:

Imo, with the new abs balls (or similar low spin) balls that are widely used these days, a ply around the speed range of a viscaria( considering most of the viscaria available nowadays aren't as heavy and powerful as the older ones) are not really crazy fast with some med hard rubbers, especially for a 2 winged looper. If the kid has atleast some decent fundamentals or can receive some coaching then a setup like this would even help him keep his stroke compact and avoid tightening up too much while he learns to move and play quicker. 
 However, if the kid doesn't have his fundamentals down yet, and has no scope of receiving some regular coaching, then yeah, a good controlled all-round ply like an all round evolution or a Sweden classic paired with some easy to use med-hard rubbers like vega pro/aurus  or slightly softer like fastarc c1 or vega euro should work well too. 
I've tried several Viscarias within the last two years because so many are playing it. It is still a really fast blade. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. Here in Germany, a lot of players are still using All+ or Off- blades like Persson Powerallround, Stiga All Classic, Primorac, all the All+ or Primorac clones from Gewo, Andro etc. Maybe where you live and I assume most of you come from USA, a Xiom Offensive S is the slowest blade you can find in the gym. Given that, a Viscaria might not seem like a fast blade which indeed it still is.
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:


The 8/9 yr old 1600 player in my club uses a Viscaria and did so when he was 1100.  Hope that helps.  The new ABS ball has made everything slower.  It is one thing to speak from theory but I work with players.  I used to play with OFF- blades all the time and tried it after the ABS ball change, with the result that I started putting too much effort for too little reward.  IMO, if you want to make someone use a beginner set up with proper strokes, put on some hybrid or Chinese rubber with tack.   But a Viscaria is roughly the slowest blade that one should use.  I am allergic to ALC blades so I use all wood, but I wouldn't hesitate to put the right kind of player on a Mazunov these days even as a beginner.   I would just put on slower rubber.   But at 1600 with good coaching, a Mazunov is fine.

Slower blades to me are more about short game feel. But Chinese or slower rubber is better for that.
I've worked with players also a lot and managed to get two really young kids under the best ten of their class within our region in one year. That you have to put more effort in every shot is the big advantage. You CAN do that and learn a proper stroke with full power from your own. When I was coaching back in the 90s, we had not so much player, who played too fast material. They were lacking own power and the speed out of this material was just to slow. They did not learn to use the full power because if they would have used it, they would have missed every second shot. So they had to rely heavily on the material. Other way around with kids who learned with slower material and proper strokes. When they changed to faster material, they were able to play faster and with more quality.
This is also maybe related to this:
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

If I remember correctly there were some comments that with all wood blades there was more feedback to the player when shots were hit even slightly differently.  So with wood blades, beginners subconscious learning correct stroking was quicker.  

I believe there was some thinking that touch was learned more quickly with wood for the same reason.  The touch learned on the wood supposedly carried over even after switching to carbon.

Have no knowledge to form opinion on either of above.  Just writing some of reasons I remember reading.

Mark 
The "touch" which you're referring Mark, is the ability to do the shots even slightly different. With fast material, 90% of the shots which are not hit correctly will end up in the net or most of the time off the table. With someone who is developing, this is really not helping because the player really has no clue what is wrong. Someone with experience and proper foundation knows what is happening and can adapt. To get there, you need a certain amount of feeling and experience what happens when you do this different. The "touch" carries over indeed to carbon. If you've learned the basics, you will immediately know how to adapt your strokes on faster material and carbon blades. But how do you want to do it, when your strokes are not perfect and most importantly consistent. Most intermediate players even don't have consistent strokes. Every strok is different and most of the intermediate players even don't recognize what they did different and just wonder, why 50% of their stroke are failures or too slow.
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

I started to have TT trainings 5 years ago at the age of 32. 
Was total newbie.
In 2 months read articles and saw really experienced guy with TB Alc and t05 and t64.
Wanted such a setup really much and it lasted for 3 more months during which I tried to find according to forums advices something slower, but didn't like it cause thought it was a matter of equipment that my topspin was not powerful enough.
Looking at my hesitation, my coach told me to take that TB Alc and let's start trainings.
I took)))
In 2 years my level grown to something like 2200 in US.
Btw I changed 1 tb Alc to 2 one because broke first))
After that viscaria light and after that trapped to ifl Alc and xiom feel zx1.
So current situation is that I need slower setup just because I can use it in my play style better, not because I had to start with it.
Of course, there are always exceptions to a rule but please, don't use this single example to use it as a rule for all players out there.
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


Have you tried Mark V with the ABS balls?

It simply does not bite the ball the way that it would grab celluloid.

What frequently happens is that you get a lot of medium speed balls that go long because they lack topspin.

I suppose that very refined technique could compensate for the rubber's behavior...
Yes I have and I use a Mendo and Mendo Energey to test new blades.
Just some food for thought:



Edited by Ingo_Ger - 11/08/2020 at 3:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 5:18am
Originally posted by Ingo_Ger Ingo_Ger wrote:


I've worked with players also a lot and managed to get two really young kids under the best ten of their class within our region in one year. That you have to put more effort in every shot is the big advantage. You CAN do that and learn a proper stroke with full power from your own. When I was coaching back in the 90s, we had not so much player, who played too fast material. They were lacking own power and the speed out of this material was just to slow. They did not learn to use the full power because if they would have used it, they would have missed every second shot. So they had to rely heavily on the material. Other way around with kids who learned with slower material and proper strokes. When they changed to faster material, they were able to play faster and with more quality.
This is also maybe related to this:


Okay.  I just presented my experience so it can be compared to yours.   People can train however they want and decide.  My main point is that the new ball makes it far easier to use a faster blade.  If speed (the realsense of the ball) is a concern, use stickier rubber.  If you don't agree with this, that is fine.  But If you think you can use a fast blade with stickier rubber and play lazy strokes, try it sometime. 

To me a 1600 player is not a beginner.  At that level while some people have slower setups to improve, some also use faster setups. So it isn't a one size fits all thing.


Edited by NextLevel - 11/08/2020 at 5:26am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 6:41am
I'm from India, and I have coached quite a few kids and adults of different levels myself since quite a few years. And the biggest problem is, that there is no one size fits all. A young kid with decent fitness who already has his basics set to an extent and is ready to put in the hours under coaching and additional physical training won't really need a slow blades biggest advantages ie. :

1. Help with short game. 
2. Improved feel. 
3. Forcing you to generate your own power 
A coach teaching him the right technique and his hours of on table coaching and physical training will easily cover that even if he uses a  slightly faster blade.( not something overly fast ofcourse) 

However, there are certain disadvantages to slow blades ( really dwelly blades mainly) , especially to quickly improving junior players. 

1. It bites/holds the ball for too long, and hence against higher level topspins with good power and spin, it's going to make it very difficult for the player to play a quick or effective or even try to take off or nullify the pace with a soft block. 

2. At higher levels, players are good at playing the ball deep onto the table, and its quite tough to return these balls 'effectively' with a slow dwelly blade. 

3. Chances of injury or sore muscles would increase especially if the player spends a lot of time on the table. 

Basically thats why higher level players say that carbon blades have more control than all wood, though this isn't exactly accurate. Some pros that do use all wood blades use ones with a stiff outer or basically blades that don't hold the ball too much which helps them play more aggressively or actively Against higher quality returns without worrying abt the incoming spin. 

I love spinning the ball and hence always enjoyed playing with dwelly all wood plies even though they dint Really work for me in match play against a high lvl player, especially since I do love playing a quick rally game. And this is proving to be even more evident with the abs ball. If someone's only going to play for recreational purposes and doesnt  mind hitting a plateau at some point (with regards to consistent competition performance) then an all/all+ blade is defninitely a fun option.
However, for a dedicated person who's hell bent on getting to a higher level, if you really want to slow things down, use a tacky rubber , but don't go too slow on the blade, like nextlevel suggested before. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 7:26am
You're saying it yourself: At higher level of play. At higher level of play, I'm with you. If the young player has the basics together as you said, you can go faster with the equipment.
1600 is not anywhere near there. I mean, be honest, how many top spin to top spin rallies do you see in a match between 1600 players? How often does one player has to overcome the spin of the other player? 
In this regions, a decent serve might be enough to win you easily 4-5 points. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2020 at 7:32am
Just for reference:
This is what I found on YT. Under 1600 means that at least in the finals both of them should be around 1600 or even on the brink of getting above it.

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